CT How could Leia Remember her Mother ?

And those memories and feelings through the Force came so naturally to Leia she didn't even think about them not matching up.

Sam Vines gets the prize for longest answer. But when it comes to holding water those answers are at the bottom of the lake.

Not true. Luke had visions of Dagobah he thought were dreams. Rey had visions of Ahch-To that Kylo Ren was able to see in her mind. Anakin could see things before they happened and his dreams of being a Jedi could also be visions of the future.

This extra awareness of the world around a Force users innately shows itself even without training.

This is true about the story changing in the PT. But there is no inconsistency. It doesn't overrule that Leia remembers Padme from when she was a born and even before that because of her power in the Force. Let's not forget that Luke and Leia were also on Mustafar.

 

The Force has always been a Deus ex Machina as we saw in ANH, when only a Jedi can blow up the Death Star.

That's bad storytelling 101. You have a major character disappear off screen and her fate is revealed in a throw away line of dialogue. There's no resolution. Especially since she isn't mentioned for two films. It would be just as bad as Lucas's original plan to have Yoda die off screen. He was told that Yoda needed to live long enough to have Luke come back to Dagobah and learn the truth. Yet, by your reasoning, that would have been just as acceptable as having Padme die off screen.

 

There are accounts of strangers in real life who have met and suspected that they might be somehow related, only to find out that they are. You don’t have to be able to use the Force to experience this.

 

I think you misread what I said or something. I said that having Padme dying onscreen is a strong dramatic beat for episode 3 and is a good reason for why it should remain as such even if I don't think it necessarily works as well with the dialogue in ROTJ. That being said, there are other ways to go about having Padme live with Leia for a while, but those would require deeper structural changes.

 

Indeed...many skills can occur naturally without formal training....

QUI-GON : They have Podracing on Malastare. Very fast, very dangerous.
ANAKIN : I'm the only human who can do it.
SHMI looks askance at her son.
ANAKIN : (Cont'd) Mom, what? I'm not bragging. It's true. Watto says he's never heard of a human doing it.
QUI-GON : You must have Jedi reflexes if you race Pods.
------------------------------
QUI-GON : He can see things before they happen. That's why he appears to have such quick reflexes. It is a Jedi trait.

And which Jedi taught this kid?



Besides, if using the Force required training, then how did the very first Force user ever learn how to use the Force?

 

Well humans have the ability to learn to do a variety of things even without instructions or formal training.
They can train themselves by simply doing.

When I was much younger and had a commodore 64 and whole bunch of games but no instructions on how to play them. But play them I did and through a lot of trial and error, I learned to be at least somewhat competent with them.

Instructions and formal training most often helps and speeds up the process but humans can learn to do things even without them.

With Force use, someone might have been trying to reach something just out of reach and to their surprise, the object moved without them touching it.
Having discovered this, they might try to experiment and see how this power works and so on.
And though self-training they get better at this and they might discover new abilities.

But regardless how Leia "remembers" this stuff, it still causes a conflict with her real past. That she came to Alderaan to live with Bail and his wife days old.
There is no room for a "real mother" there, unless she means Bails first wife.
And if she somehow knows that her mother died in childbirth then her words to Luke ar odd and she would be confused as to how she can have memories of a mother that died in child birth.

Bye for now.
Blackboard Monitor

 

I think people can use the Force without training, but as Obi Wan and Yoda point out, you cannot control it and can be more susceptible to the dark side.

 

Honestly I just chalk it up to Lucas not knowing where the Prequel story was going to go when ROTJ was made. I would have said that perhaps she was talkie about her adoptive mother, but the nu-canon establishes that Breha was alive up until the events of ANH, so that's out.

 

LEIA: I know. Somehow...I've always known.

Keep in mind, we've never heard Luke nor Leia talk about their mother, so you have no idea what Leia did or didn't know about her "real mother" prior to this, nor how she dealt with it. She could have just gotten bits and pieces from Bail, reconciled those feelings long ago, or just kept her suspicions to herself until Luke started asking. You simply do not know.

In any case, you keep comparing her to some "Average Jane" in our galaxy who lacks Force sensitivities, so to say it would be exactly the same in both cases lacks credibility. You can come up with all the scenarios you want, but yours are not the only possible scenarios.

QUI-GON : Had he been born in the Republic, we would have identified him early

Indeed. Jedi training is about how to use the Force responsibly, in line with the Will of the Force. The Jedi only look for Force-sensitives within the Republic (Was Palpatine born in the Republic?). There's likely plenty of unrecognized Force-sensitives throughout the galaxy (such as Palpatine) that learn how to use the Force in very different ways.

 

He's the Senator for Naboo. Which would at least imply that he comes from Naboo. Which is within the Republic.

 

You'd think so, but then that raises some questions... How many other Force-sensitives were missed? Maybe he was hidden away, or his parents refused the test, or was too old when found, or was simply passed over because the Jedi can't realistically find every single Force-sensitive across the entire Republic.

 

Barely, to be honest. I think Naboo is closer to Tattooine than it is to Coruscant. And I don't think the Jedi was able to find every Force sensitive individual within the Republic.

 

Naboo's in the Mid-Rim, Tatooine's in the Outer Rim. It's closer to Tatooine that Coruscant, but the two are still pretty far apart on the newcanon map:

 

That's interesting....Even if Tatooine were right next to Naboo, it's still in the opposite direction of Coruscant, which is where Qui-gon was taking Padme in a big hurry. You'd think he'd limp over to Sullust or Mallastare, since they're along the way.

 

There's a big hyperlane that Tatooine is on - The Corellian Run, which is probably why Jabba uses it as his base - it can be thought of as a gateway between Hutt Space and the Republic proper.

If the ship was already in hyperspace and heading for the hyperlane when the damage was found (because getting on it will massively speed up their trip to Coruscant, like driving on a motorway rather than on country lanes) then that would explain why it wasn't going direct to Coruscant.

 

I have suggested an alternate explanation, that Bail showed pictures of Padme and told Leia about her and from that Leia thinks she spent time with her mother.
No need to make up a Force-memory power and no need to come up with reasons why Luke has no such memories.
So a simpler explanation.
It still has problems, like why would Bail risk telling Leia about Padme when secrecy was quite important.

Also, as I said before, the burden of proof lies with the ones who proposes the theory, not the one who questions it.

Invoking the Force and saying "The Force did it so sense, reason and logic don't matter." is to me not a very good explanation.

This is simply a retcon, like Leia and Luke being siblings.
And how well the films deal with this retcon is debatable.
I think both are kind of iffy, not huge dealbreakers but noticeable.

Bye for now.
Old Stoneface

 

"Simpler" has no bearing on validity.

Which is why I said bits and pieces. I agree that telling Leia is a risk, but that doesn't mean she doesn't pick up on clues. Regardless, this aspect is never discussed in the films, so it's a moot point.

And Hitchen's Razor has nothing to do with this. Leia stated that "somehow", she's always known. (At this point, she still doesn't believe that she has Force abilities). You may not like that explanation, but it is the explanation.

We may never truly understand the Force's motivations....especially since it's not even human. Ben and Yoda didn't understand why the Force would create a Chosen One who, in the long journey to destroy the Sith, becomes a Sith himself and wipes out the Jedi Order....and yet it did. Heck, Anakin wasn't even born in the Republic where he would be normally discovered by the Jedi, and Lucas said it was a mistake for Qui-gon to bring him to Coruscant, and yet Qui-gon (and Ben) felt that there were no coincidences with the Force.

"GL: I think it is obvious that he was wrong in Episode 1 and made a dangerous decision, but ultimately this decision may be correct. The Phantom Menace refers to the force of the dark side of the Universe. Anakin will be taken over by dark forces which in turn destroy the balance of the Galaxy, but the individual who kills the Emperor is Darth Vader - also Anakin. The tale meanders and both the prediction, and Qui-Gon are correct - Anakin is the chosen one, and he did bring peace at last with his own sacrifice. Luke couldn't kill the Emperor himself, but he could make Anakin reflect on his life and kill the Emperor."