PT How could the Jedi have outplayed Palpatine and thwart his plan?

One of the things about the prequels.. Palpatine's plan, whilst sick and twisted, was incredibly clever. His rise to power was perfectly planned... gaining the sympathy vote to become Chancellor, creating a war to extend his powers, controlling that war's outcome to suit his needs. Then at the end, turning the very Chosen One the Jedi Order pinned their hopes on to betray them. Then removing the two organisations still capable of challenging him - the Jedi Order and then the Confederacy Council (who would have otherwise commanded a significant Droid Army and Fleet to counter him).

But could the Jedi have prevented him by being more proactive and paying attention to the Senate?

1. In TPM, why do the Jedi do nothing about Naboo? I know they are not authorised, but since Qui Gon and Obi Wan went anyhow, couldn't they submit evidence of the invasion to the Senate? The Jedi Council seems to just be sitting in its glorious Temple whilst Palpatine and the Sith Order actively do things. Why can't Qui Gon contact the Council like how Obi Wan does from Kamino in AOTC when they are on Tatooine?

2. In AOTC, how come the Jedi Order seems to take a more active role in investigating suspicious activity, whereas in TPM they don't? Do they not suspect Palpatine's political maneuverings? I understand that they underestimate the strength of the Separatist movement, when they send the initial 200 strong Jedi Taskforce to Geonosis, but when the Clone Army finally arrives, why not send a larger group of Jedi and Clones to apprehend Dooku, rather than Yoda just going by himself, without apparently telling anyone.

3. Between AOTC and ROTS, do they not investigate how the Clone Army came into being and who it ultimately answers to? If they dislike or suspect Palpatine of being power hungry, and they also knew the GAR ultimately takes orders from its Commander in Chief, a position he holds, would they not take more care?

4. In ROTS, why do the Jedi play into Palpatine's hands and sideline Anakin completely? If they involve him, they give him less reason to suspect them of the fabricated plot that Palpatine feeds him. Why allow him to sit on the Council in the first place? Then the issue of Master is defunct. It would be better for Yoda, Mace and Obi Wan guide him to becoming a Master by taking him with them on missions and instructing him on patience and letting go.

5. Could Mace have informed the rest of the Order, or at least the rest of the Jedi Council, or anyone for that matter that Palpatine was the Sith Lord? Could they have deduced that the GAR was then under the Sith's command and issued a warning to all Jedi fighting on the battlefront? Could they not have enacted measures to relieve Palpatine of this command asap to negate Order 66? This of course assumes they looked at the order book in the first place.. I mean the Jedi out on the battlefronts were clueless about this fact (see Rise of Darth Vader novel where Masters Shryne and Chatak do not realise they have been branded enemies of the Republic).

6. Wouldn't it have been better to take Anakin with the arrest team? That way, the Jedi are being completely open about what they are doing and giving him no reason to distrust them. They provide Palpatine with ammunition. After he is bested, Palpatine (his mind must work at lightspeed) immediately plays the scene before Anakin's eyes that somehow Mace just burst into the office and is attempting to assasinate the Chancellor of the Republic.

I mean tbh, there should have been a better arrest team, though I suppose they had not originally formed the quartet with the intention of facing a Sith Lord. I think they could have choreographed that scene better where the first 2 Masters die in a more impressive way. E.g. The battle could have been after Palpatine says "It's treason then.." a 2nd lightsaber hidden in one of his odd statues emerges from it's hiding place and stabs the Agen Kolar in the back. At the same time Palpatine does the swirling thing whilst throwing the other lightsaber to kill the second dude from the left. Whilst he is swirling he does a Force push to push Mace Windu back. When he lands he retrieves both lightsabers and engages Kit Fisto, who still has panic on his face, but manages to rid Palpatine of one lightsaber by cutting its handle before succumbing to a deadly swipe from the Sith Lord.Then Master Windu engages the Dark Lord from that point.

The battle between them was fantastic though. It was genius how Master Windu bested Palpatine and then:
a) Still proclaims his opponent to be under arrest - A True Jedi
b) Realises despite being disarmed, that the Sith Lord is extremely powerful and too dangerous to be left alive and must be killed.
c) Is stopped by Anakin. This is the crucial point. The whole fate of not just the Jedi Order, but the Galaxy rests on this one point in the film. Anakin intervenes, and prevents the fall of the Sith then and there. He betrays the Jedi Master and the Order. At the same time, the Jedi have not taken seriously the importance of the Chosen One. Mace Windu does not see that Anakin is the shatterpoint till too late.

Couldn't Yoda and Obi Wan gone to tackle the Emperor? He has to be dealt with to restore the Old Republic that existed hours before. Even if you kill Anakin, it's pointless in the sense that in reality, Palpatine is Emperor and ruler of the Galaxy. But even then, what could the Jedi do at that point? Whereas there may have been justification for Mace Windu killing Palpatine (he gave him two chances to surrender), I think Yoda killing Palpatine may not have been looked at positively. And whilst Mace arresting or killing the Chancellor might have prevented the Jedi's and the Republic's downfall, Yoda killing the Emperor might have just thrown the new Empire into chaos. Who would rule then?

In essence, Palpatine not only outplays the Jedi, but he plays the system well. Whilst he works outside the system to help him, he still exploits and utilises the law to his advantage. He is the legitimate ruler of the Republic. He does not do anything illegal as such. The Jedi seem to follow the law to the T. They do not monitor what is happening in the Republic particularly well. And when they work outside of the system, they seem to shoot themselves in the foot, by coming across as if they are attempting to overthrow the Republic in a coup d'etat, playing into Palpatine's hands.

Thoughts?

 

The way all of that could have been prevented, is if the Senate or the Courts had a way of removing Palpatines Supreme Chancellory. Remember, he was simply Chancellor before the Clone Wars. However, during the Clone Wars, his title was changed to Supreme Chancellor. All of this could have been avoided, had their been saftey measures, that could immediatley remove his power. Also, Anakin could have resisted the Dark Side, and killed Sidious right then and there. Breaking the Rule of Two set forth by Darth Bane, 1,000 years earlier. There wouldn't be any more sith, the Master and Apprentice chain would have been broken, as would the rule of 2. Thus, Balance would have been brought back to the force. Also, you may not look at it like i do, but perhaps this was a Great Trial, that all Jedi must go through in order to become a Master in the Jedi Order. Anakin was being played during the Clone Wars like a fiddle, and Palpatine was the Orchestrator. Also, to stop this, Kit Fisto isn't suited for 1v1 Combat, he battles groups, so he didnt have the lightsaber fighting style to go against Palpatine. Anakin SHOULD have went with the strike team, to see with his own eyes. All from that point on, the Empire and everything, could then have been prevented if he went with the strike team.

 

"Chancellor" is just a shortening of "Supreme Chancellor" - I've never seen anything that says he got a title change of that kind.

 

Kill him. Then the Jedi Knight who did it takes the fall for his brethren.

 

Quick comments,

Overall, sadly I feel that Palpatine's plan very much depended on everyone else in the galaxy being really stupid.

TPM, the Jedi could have been in the senate and given witness to what the TF did and also since the TF tried to murder two of their number, they would have their own reasons to deal with the TF.
Also, once the Jedi learn about the TF declaring war on the republic and how the senate have proven powerless to act on this crisis and the possible return of their worst enemy, it should have been an all hands on deck situation.
They could have sent 5-6 more Jedi with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan. That way Maul might have been caught instead of killed. With an alive Qui-Gon, Anakin's next years might have been better.

Between TPM and AotC. Give Nute and other TF goons the 3rd degree about their connection to the Sith and find out as much as they can. Dig out all the info they have on the Sith and make sure Anakin, their Sith terminator, is given the best possible training.

AotC. Investigate the deleted Kamino file more closely and don't just meditate on it. After Obi-Wan's initial report send other Jedi to question the Kamino and double check the following; when exactly was the order placed, when exactly did Sifo-Dyas die, where did the money for this army come from. If Sifo-Dyas was indeed dead when the order was placed, the Jedi know that the army was ordered under a false name.
On Geonosis, the Jedi frankly use a retarted battle strategy. Instead of Mace alone, have Mace and 2-3 other Masters confront Dooku and have the corridor be guarded by 5-10 senior Knights. Then if Dooku doesn't surrender, kill him. With Dooku dead, the seps would collapse and the war would be over before it started.

Between AotC and RotS dig further into the mystery around the clone army and if they find evidence that it was ordered under a false name, the do the following; Limit the number of jedi in the field and move some of their numbers of Coruscant. Having them all in one place is too dangerous. begin to reach out to senators that they can trust, share the evidence and begin to build an alliance.

RotS. Be slightly more diplomatic with Anakin. Once Mace learns that Palpatine is a sith he should ahve questioned Anakin more about this. If he learns that Palpatine simply told Anakin, alarm bells should be ringing. Warn the other Jedi about this, talk with Yoda, bring more Jedi and possibly a few senators.

Bye for now.
Mr "Insert-Name-Here"

 

Regarding TPM and contacting the Jedi Council from Tatooine, Qui-Gon told Obi-Wan not to let the Queen or anyone send any transmissions, and yet they did since Maul was able to find them.

 

This is a case where I don't believe they were meant to outsmart the Sith. The point for me is that both Orders are corrupt and the Force needed to start fresh.

 

This one's a highly debated subject - even some SW writers (Karen Traviss, Matt Stover) have argued that the Jedi Order is corrupt to some extent.

That said, a great many fans despise what they see as a "victim blaming" attitude toward the Jedi Order - anakinfansince1983 springs to mind.

I personally see it as somewhere between the two - the Jedi Order had moved away from its roots a bit - but not so much as to be truly "corrupt".

 

Agreed. Anakin should have been taken on the Jedi arrest team. If he was told to stay, then it should have been with instructions to inform the rest of the Jedi and the Senate of the Chancellor's deception.

Had Anakin accompanied Master Windu, he would have seen for himself, rather than stumble upon what could be construed as the victim of a Jedi coup.

What if Mace Windu had played Palpatine's game and said Anakin let's take him into custody?

I think any Chancellor was referred to as Supreme Chancellor, even Valorum. It was a title. However, emergency powers were granted at the end of AOTC. In addition, numerous other executive powers were conferred to Palpatine by the Senate during the Clone Wars. In essence, by the middle of ROTS, he is almost all powerful. The only thing that could stop him was the Security Council (of which the Jedi Council was a part) relieving him of command, or else the Senate voting by majority to reverse his emergency powers. The only forces capable of standing up to him (since he was the Commander in Chief of the GAR) were the Jedi Order and the CIS. He dealt with the first through Order 66 and proclaiming them to be Enemies of the Republic after framing them for a coup. The latter threat was finished off by dispatching the newly annointed Lord Vader to eliminate the leadership of the CIS and issue a shutdown order from High Command to the entire CIS army and fleet.

 

Correct. The title of the post was Supreme Chancellor. Chancellor was just the short form.

In AOTC, emergency powers were conferred to the Supreme Chancellor by the Senate, through a motion by Senator Jar Jar Binks.

By the end of ROTS, the Senate had granted virtually limitless power to the office of the Supreme Chancellor. With no Jedi Order to counter him, he did not relinquish his emergency powers. Instead he assumed the title of Emperor.

What would have happened if Anakin had accompanied the arrest team? Would the Republic still stand if the Chancellor had been arrested and removed from office? If he had been killed and the Sith threat eliminated, would the Republic and Jedi Order not have fallen?

If Anakin had defeated Obi Wan, would he have simply launched a coup himself and then assumed command as Palpatine's successor? How would his Empire have differed?

 

True. If Master Windu had killed Palpatine, then the Sith would be destroyed and problem solved.

Besides, the Chancellor had control of the Senate and the Courts and was too dangerous to be left alive. Granted, there may have been an attempt by some to turn on the Jedi Order or demand Master Windu be taken into custody, but I think he would have faced those consequences. Alternatively, the Jedi Order would have temporarily taken over in the confusion (the Clone Commanders and Fleet Commanders still respected them) and relinquished control to a suitable Senator.

Or would the Jedi Order deem the Senate to be too corrupt and rule the galaxy?

 

I think the plan was good, but he was lucky through others' incompetence and apathy. I mean, he was one individual up against an entire Republic and an established Jedi Order with some of the finest Jedi that the galaxy had ever witnessed. However, the Republic had become bloated, corrupt and excessively bureacratic. It had little influence over outlying systems and did not appear to have any way to enforce the law against powerful corporations or systems. The Jedi Order had become too complacent, happy to sit in their Temple and meditate on the future, without seeing events unfold in front of their very eyes. They also had a certain sense of entitlement and did not have a feel on the pulse of ordinary citizens. Whilst they were not meant to interfere in Senate politics, they appeared to have little grasp on the extent of the corruption and mismanagement at the highest level. They had not protected the Senate they had pledged their allegiance to, from outside influence.

Yes, I cannot understand why Qui Gon and Obi Wan could not present evidence to the Senate of the TF involvement as well as the mysterious Sith warrior. The Jedi Council did not seem overly concerned either. Again, at this point, without a Separatist movement established or a Clone War going on, there must have been ample Jedi available to assist, instead of sending one Master and a a Knight. They were too complacent of their powers. Although mightily powerful, Jedi could be overwhelmed through sheer force (as seen in AOTC). The fact that the Sith had apparently returned should have been viewed as a severe threat.

Yes, I think Master Windu had to take a taskforce to Geonosis in haste. It was an emergency and there was little time to prepare or mobilise assistance. The scene was brilliant when he drew his lightsaber in the arena. However, you're right a few Jedi should have been there to take Dooku. Indeed one tries to apprehend him later and is shot by Jango. You could forgive Mace for underestimating the threat or simply not having time to mobilise a force capable of taking on the newly released Droid Army. What is unforgivable is Yoda sensing Obi Wan and Anakin in trouble, knowing that Dooku was about to flee and going alone. He should have taken other Jedi and an entire platoon of clones and gunships to stop him from escaping.

Indeed. I think Anakin should have been taken on the arrest team. Also, someone should have told another Jedi, even a Padawan to inform the rest of the Jedi Council and the Order of Palpatine's true identity. Trouble was the Palpatine played and used the system. He became the legitimate ruler of the Republic. He did things in public, whereas the Jedi seemed to work behind closed doors, their crucial actions were only known to a select few at the top of government. Of course, Palpatine neglected to mention any of their noble deeds when he proclaimed them traitors.

 

Yes I agree. They should have turned the transmitter/receiver off in the first place. Otherwise, why not just message the Jedi Temple for help, like how Obi Wan contacts Anakin in AOTC?

It seems bizarre that Qui Gon would not want to contact the Temple for assistance.

Or could Qui Gon have just stolen the parts from Watto?

 

The Sith did start again with Darth Bane. The Jedi Order attempted to suppress attachment by simply forbidding relationships. This worked for many, but not all, most crucially the Chosen One.

The Jedi had also become mightily complacent and bloated with their position in the Republic. Some may have had little sympathy for them after Palpatine proclaimed them traitors.

 

I'm not sure the Jedi Order is corrupt as such. Perhaps complacent and entitled would be more appropriate. They had become used to their privileged position. Unlike Palpatine/Sidious, they were not adept at utilising the system, thinking that they could carry out their actions unilaterally, without informing anyone. This would prove their ultimate downfall. Since the arrest failed, they played into Palpatine's hands as he portrayed it as an Jedi attempt to take over/ a coup d'etat.

 

Darth Bane, Darth Zannah, Darth Tenebrous, Darth Plagueis all knew the plan. It was first created by Darth Bane, it was his idea a thousand years earlier, and it was kept secret through all the Dark Lords of the Sith. The plan was passed down through the years, and Palpatine/Sidious executed it. When Yoda was on Moriband talking to Darth Bane, I think Yoda could have or should have asked questions about the times. But he didn't. That was also a mistake.

 

I don't think the Jedi ever imagined that the system or their Order could ever be toppled or brought down. Or that thousands of them could be killed so swiftly in a matter of minutes, effectively ending the Jedi Order in one stroke.

Many survivors would have been totally unprepared for such an existence. Palpatine's plan was truly evil and genius.

 

Well, I don't think the main plan was for one Sith to end up on top. I feel like the main goal was for the two Sith, the master and apprentice, would eventually both execute the plan and end up on top. However, in the past, there was always a case where the apprentice killed his master. I feel like Plagueis had confidence that once Palpatine had achieved Chancellor, that they were going to go to the top together. However, Palpatine decided to make a change of plans and keep the power for himself.

 

Qui-Gon and Obi-wan cannot submit anything to the senate without exposing Valorum's hand in sending 2 Jedi to Naboo without the senate's approval. Also, Qui-Gon told Obi-wan not to let the Queen or any of her staff send any transmissions because it will lead the Trade Federation (or in this case, Darth Maul) straight to them.

The Jedi had spent 1,000 years believing that the Sith are dead and had no way of sensing the Sith's involvement in the Trade Federation's takeover of Naboo until Qui-Gon was ambushed by Darth Maul on Tatooine
Once the Jedi have discovered that the Sith have returned, they had to work diligently to find the 2nd Sith lord especially after Obi-wan has killed Maul. The Jedi don't suspect PalpSidious's political maneuverings because he's operating like any other politician which is evident when Obi-wan told Anakin not to trust him, Padme, or any other politician. As for sending a larger group of Jedi and Clones to apprehend Dooku, the Jedi couldn't do that since they're all too preoccupied with fighting the battle droids and Yoda didn't have time to wait for reinforcements which is why he went alone.

In the Clone Wars cartoon, the Jedi did investigate the conspiracy behind the Clone Army's existence after a single clone trooper gunned down a Jedi in mid-battle. Then, they learned that each clone trooper has an organic microchip in their brains that makes them obey any command without question. Next, they discovered that Count Dooku is the "man called Tyranus" that Jango Fett spoke of after discovering Sifo-Dyas's missing ship and lightsaber which led them to the Pykes. Finally, commander Fives tells Anakin that Palpatine orchestrated everything including the creation of the clone army to hatch his plot to destroy the Jedi and the Republic. Even if the Jedi wanted to do something about it, they couldn't risk being misconstrued as traitors to the Republic thus giving PalpSidious a justifiable reason to initiate order 66 upon the Jedi.

It wouldn't make a difference if the Jedi brought Anakin with them to arrest PalpSidious because he still had an ulterior motive for wanting to go with them. Anakin still wouldn't let go of his visions of Padme dying and he believes that PalpSidious holds the key to saving her life which is why Mace told Anakin to stay put and why Anakin stopped Mace from killing PalpSidious.

Mace didn't have time to inform the rest of the Jedi Order that Palpatine is a Sith lord due to him sensing a "plot to destroy the Jedi". Mace had no clue what this plot is but he wasn't going to wait around and let PalpSidious deploy his plot at any given time which might endanger the entire Jedi Order which is why Mace charged after PalpSidious. He couldn't tell the Repubilc either since he doesn't have any evidence and there was no acceptable way to remove PalpSidious from office without being branded as traitors by the Republic.

First, even if Mace Windu brought Anakin with him, it would still prove disasterous for it will still lead to Anakin helping PalpSidious regardless if Mace had arrested him. It has nothing to do with distrust because Anakin was still going to betray the Jedi no matter what happens. Second, Yoda and Obi-wan couldn't tackle the Emperor together because Yoda knows that Obi-wan is no match for the Emperor which is why he said, "To fight this Lord Sidious, strong enough you are not." Plus, Yoda has as much justification for killing PalpSidious as Mace Windu does (the whole ordering the deaths of all Jedi including Yoda and there's the bit where PalpSidious shoots lightning at Yoda before the fight even started) and he will leave it up to the senate to decide who will be the new chancellor once PalpSidious was dead. Finally, the Jedi were doomed the second that PalpSidious became supreme chancellor so any action they make against him from that point would still lead to their downfall.

 

But Valorum dispatching 2 ambassadors to Naboo was a well known fact. The TF knew of it and the Naboo government knew of it. They were official ambassadors of the Chancellor of the Republic. The mere fact that they have been attacked is reason enough to warrant further action. The issue with them being Jedi doesn't appear to be valid. Whilst perhaps unusual to dispatch 2 Jedi, they were still official ambassadors and acted in that capacity alone. They did not interfere with events so there was no real reasoning that they couldn't be brought forward lest they had done something without Republic approval. They merely helped a Republic member state's head of government reach Coruscant. They bore witness to events - even Qui Gon mentions at the beginning to Obi Wan that they had to contact Chancellor Valorum.

I'm not totally convinced that a Jedi 913 emergency transmission could not have been sent to the Jedi Temple by the Jedi whilst on route to Tatooine. However, it seems truly bizarre as to why the two Jedi and footage of their ship being attacked whilst fleeing Naboo, could not be presented to the Senate as evidence. What need is there to send another committee when 2 official ambassadors had been sent? The Jedi Order is not known for its bias. If anything, being Jedi would have worked in their favour. It was only by the time of ROTS, that perhaps some in the galaxy began to openly mistrust the Jedi for their role in the war.

The Jedi Council also do not appear to take decisive action to dispatch reinforcements to investigate the appearance of the Sith. Unlike in AOTC or ROTS, the Order is not stretched or overwhelmed at this point, so could have sent more Jedi discreetly. This appears to be in their power/mandate given Obi Wan's extensive investigations and travels in AOTC.

Whilst the Jedi do not suspect Palpatine or a politician of being a Sith, they do not appear to take the threat seriously enough. Perhaps they never thought that the established order could be brought down at all, let alone so swiftly. Nor that the galaxy would turn against them. Palpatine did indeed outwit them here using the system.

On Geonosis, I'm not sure that Yoda had to go alone. After all, he had his own clones under his command (the ones who brought him to the forward command centre). Whilst a majority of the army were conducting an assault on the Separatist lines under their Jedi Generals, there were still plenty of clones at the rear of the advance. There were numerous gunships available. Indeed at the Forward Command Centre itself, Commander Gree and other clone troopers were available. Yoda requested a ship for himself to go alone, why did he not take other clones with him?

Also the key thing was capturing Dooku/not letting the Separatists escape and regroup. This is what Obi Wan said to Anakin - "If we capture him, we can end this war right now." It seemed reckless of Yoda to go by himself without apparently consulting anyone on why he was going. Only Senator Amidala seems to rally other troops and a gunship to go to the hangar. She did this on a far corner of the battlefield which is why I suppose it takes time, but Yoda is at the command centre with a gunship and plenty of clones ready to go, so to speak. It would have taken roughly the same time for the whole lot to fly together to the same place. It is unlikely that Dooku could have taken on Yoda + clones given he struggled to match Yoda alone and had to resort to cowardly killing the disarmed two Jedi on the floor to force Yoda to save them rather than pursue him.

Possibly, although if they had been transparent, then there would have been little that Palpatine could have manipulated. When Anakin walked in on Windu, it looked as if he had walked in there and was about to assasinate the Chancellor. Although I get the distrust of the Order of the young confused Jedi Knight.

But not enough time whilst en route to comm other Jedi to do this for him? Or tell Anakin to transmit a warning to the rest of the Council. My point is that many Jedi were left in the lurch because they did not know what happened. Yoda put two and two together or sensed it. But many survivors of Order 66 simply did not know that Palpatine was the Sith. That was a key bit of information!

 

The Trade Federation did NOT know that the ambassadors were Jedi (until TC-14 told them so) and neither did the Naboo government until Qui-Gon and Obi-wan saved them from the battle droids. If the 2 Jedi came forward to the Republic and revealed their identities, all the senators will believe that Valorum abused his power by sending 2 Jedi to Naboo without their approval from the senate and that they bullied the TF into making a settlement without any proof of the TF's wrong doing. Valorum is already facing "baseless accusations" of corruption and any evidence the Jedi have will be overshadowed by Valorum's defiance against the Republic's authority which will lead the senators will call for his removal from office which ultimately happens in TPM anyway. As for the Jedi not sending reinforcements to Naboo to investigate the appearance of the Sith, why would they? They don't believe that Qui-Gon's attacker is a Sith lord since they thought the Sith to be extinct for 1,000 years. Even if they did, they don't believe that Maul is powerful enough to defeat Qui-Gon and Obi-wan by himself but they were wrong.

Yoda couldn't take any clones with him because he knew that Dooku will slice them up the same way a Jedi slices up battle droids. We've seen how Yoda and Obi-wan handled the clone troopers in ROTS and even if Dooku had difficulty fighting Yoda, he can still make short work out of the clones so it would've been a bad idea for Yoda to bring the clones with him. Also, the Jedi DO take the Sith threat seriously but they don't know WHO to look for or where to find him until Dooku told Obi-wan about Darth Sidious controlling the republic. From there, Mace suggested that they "keep a closer eye on the senate" and the rest is history.

But Anakin knew that Palpatine revealed himself as Darth Sidious and that Mace took 3 Jedi with him to confront PalpSidious. When Anakin entered the chancellor's office, he sees that Mace is all by himself which should tell him that PalpSidious killed the other Jedi. Anakin shouldn't have to rely on the other Jedi to see that PalpSidous is a big threat to everyone because his confession alone should've spoke volumes to Anakin but he doesn't care because he's more concerned about saving Padme and he thinks that PalpSidious is his only hope of doing so.

I don't think that Mace expected that he'll fail at killing PalpSidious (especially when he has him laying on the ground with Mace's lightsaber pointing at PalpSidious's face) nor did he expect Anakin to show up and betray him. Mace was certain that he was victorious and assured himself that both the Jedi Order and the galaxy will never suffer the "oppression of the Sith" which is why he didn't warn the other Jedi. The moment Anakin sliced off Mace's hand is when everything went straight to hell because Mace knew that not only was he about to die, but so is the rest of the Jedi order.

 

In the opening crawl it is revealed that Chancellor Valorum had "secretly dispatched two Jedi Knights". Secretly is the key word here. Even though Valorum is Chancellor, he is under siege in the Senate, also, and the bigger deal is that the Trade Federation is in control of the bureaucrats in the Senate. Any legal action that Chancellor Valorum would have taken to send ambassadors to Naboo would have had to go through the Senate first. With the Trade Federation being as powerful as it was, they would have easily stopped any motion in the Senate for ambassadors to go to Naboo, especially if they were Jedi. We see proof of this in the scenes where Queen Amidala tries to address the Senate. Amidala is trying to go through the proper legal channels to address the invasion, and that is through the Senate. She is immediately silenced by the Trade Federation who is able to bury her motions into a committee. That is what Valorum would have faced if he openly sent the Jedi to Naboo.

So Valorum was forced to send the Jedi in secret. The Trade Federation did not know that they were coming, and they surely didn't know they were Jedi until TC-14 informed them. While Palaptine did know that Valorum sent ambassadors and informed the Queen, he was not aware they were Jedi. We know this because when the Trade Federation contacts Sidious to tell him of the Jedi, Sidous is genuinely surprised by the news.

While it isn't addressed in the movie, it was always my opinion that the Jedi didn't further intervene because if it was revealed that they were secretly involved in a mission that may have been deemed illegal, then it would have been bad for them, and for the embattled Chancellor Valorum. So they stayed on the sidelines. They didn't give evidence to the Senate because again, that would be admitting they were interfering in matters they shouldn't be, and also partaking in illegal actions that circumvented the Senate. The Jedi weren't allowed to get involved in matters that were before the Senate unless asked to by the Senate.

When Queen Amidala decides to go back to the Naboo, the Jedi now can openly get involved, but, not to fight a war, but to act as body guards for a head of state, which seems to me well within their rights. That is why only two go with her, there was no need to send more as then it would look suspicious. However, we know that even the bodyguard scenario was an excuse of sorts, because the council wanted to see if Amidala's return would draw out the dark warrior that Qui Gon believed to be a Sith.

So bottom line there is a lot of political maneuvering in the movie....

In AOTC the Jedi again are asked to be body guards, but, this time to a Senator. They weren't asked to get involved in the investigation. We know this by what Obi Wan says:

Now Anakin disagrees with Obi Wan, but, this is a result of Anakins personal feelings for Padme, and his overall arrogance. However, this all changes when the Jedi protecting Padme witness the assassination attempt, and are forced to act in that moment. The Jedi get involved when it becomes obvious that there is more going on than some disgruntled spice miners.

We know at least from Obi Wan's perspective that the Jedi don't trust many of the politicians, including Palpatine. However, once again, their job is not to root out corruption. That is prob up to special Senate committees and the Courts. They would probably be overstepping their mandate if they started investigating Senators.

As for Dooku, you have to remember that up to the very moment that Dooku shot lightning out of his finger tips, he was deemed the leader of a political movement, the Jedi had no clue of his leanings towards the Dark Side, let alone his Sith allegiance. All the Jedi that had survived the arena were leading troops against the droid armies, they were needed there. While Yoda probably did bring troops with him, he surely didn't fly to the hangar himself, he had to feel there was no use for them against Dooku. Who better to know Dooku's powers than Yoda.

Some of this was addressed in The Clone Wars Cartoon. The Jedi were weary of how the Clone Army came to be, and when they finally were able to connect Dooku to the army, it was far too late. The war was already in full swing, the Republic would have no alternative anyway but to continue to use the Clone Army. Furthermore, the Jedi Council came to the conclusion that if the Republic found out that Dooku was connected to the army, along with a Jedi Master (sifo dyas), then it might lead to a severe shift in the support for the war, cause more systems to leave the Republic, and cause distrust for the Jedi Order. Thus they decided to keep it under wraps and hoped for a speedy conclusion to the war. They decided this was more a product of the Sith dealings than a political one.

Just a side note, while the Jedi were able to connect Dooku to the Clone Army as the man Tyranus that helped find Jango Fett, they weren't able to come to the conclusion (they didn't have enough information) that Dooku pretended to be Sifo Dyas, so the Jedi Council was still under the impression that Dyas was the one that ordered the army, thus connecting the Jedi to the secret plot along with Dooku.

The Jedi are not aware of Palpatines plans, so they aren't aware they are playing into his hands. They sideline Anakin because we see that there is much confusion within the Jedi Council as to what to do with Anakin. They trust, but, then they don't. They aren't sure what his future as the chosen one means, if it means anything at all. There are a lot of questions they have. So to them it is only natural to hold Anakin back.

They allow him to sit on the council because they do distrust Palpatine as well. However, they don't think he is the Sith Lord they are looking for. They allow Anakin on the council to appease Palpatine, but, they make it clear to Anakin that he is not to be rewarded for having a political connection, thus why he is not given the rank of Master. The Jedi want to appease Palpatine because they don't want Palpatine to suspect that they suspect him. We know the Jedi don't trust Palpatine because they turn around and ask Anakin to spy on Palpatine for them.

Mace doesn't know that Palpatine is the Sith Lord until he actually sees it for himself. After Anakin tells Mace, Mace replies:

The big word is if, mace clearly doesn't believe Anakin 100% so Mace has to go see it for himself. Furthermore, I have described Mace Windu as the biggest, pompous ass of a Jedi that we see in the movies. From his arrogance that the Sith, couldn't have returned without the Jedi knowing, to saying Dooku was incapable of murder because he was an ex-Jedi, Lucas uses Mace as the biggest example of how the Jedi became arrogant.

See the above quote as to why Mace doesn't take Anakin. He doesn't trust him. Mace is able to sense that Anakin is fearful of the situation. While Mace isn't sure what is driving the fear, he does sense it.

Furthermore, Mace didn't best Palpatine... Palpatine threw the fight knowing Anakin was on the way.... This was the moment Palpatine was waiting for, where all his plans converged into one moment. Making Anakin choose...

As I said, Mace didn't beat Palpatine. Palpatine faked it in order to force Anakin into a choice.

At that point the Republic was lost (Palpatine already proclaimed himself Emperor), as was the Jedi Order. I think at that point it was more important that the Sith be destroyed and in order to ensure that the Sith were destroyed they had to be confronted simultaneously. If one Sith was killed before the other, than there was a real possibility that the other Sith Lord would go into hiding and still be able to rule the Galaxy as Emperor. So if Obi Wan and Yoda confront Sidious, and kill him, than Vader would have surely felt it, gone into hiding to protect himself and would have picked up Sidious' mantle as Emperor. The only way the galaxy had a chance moving forward is if the Sith were both destroyed at the same time.

 

IL: I am not victim-bashing. If some read me so, I'm sorry. I simply place responsibility where I feel it belongs just as anyone else. I simply see both parties play a part where many don't seem to.

 

I'm not totally convinced that a Jedi 913 emergency transmission could not have been sent to the Jedi Temple by the Jedi whilst on route to Tatooine.

But the clone troopers could have been used as reinforcements to block the entrance or simply disable Dooku's ship whilst Yoda engaged Dooku in battle. It seemed rather presumptious of the wisest Jedi of the entire Order to go alone without telling anyone thinking he will apprehend Dooku and there is no chance he will not.

Yes I suppose so.

I know, it was a sad scene and a critical point of the entire saga when Master Windu and the entire Jedi order were betrayed. The beginning of the end.

 

Good points. But Mace does best Palpatine. He is a more skilled swordsmaster. However Palpatine has a greater mastery of the Force and Mace cannot take the lightning barrage. Lucas himself has stated that Mace beats Palpatine. This is why the scene is so dramatic. For those especially who saw the OT, it seems suddenly like the Jedi and the side of good will win. But they lose because someone (Anakin) turns dark and betrays the light side, the Jedi order and the Republic.

Whilst Palpatine manipulates the situation, he was trying to kill Mace no question about it. He was bested full stop. But he won the battle overall by having the last laugh. Once he was disarmed, his political genius mind utilised what was before Anakin's eyes, as a weak old man at the wrong end of a lightsaber. He really is truly evil and genius.

Mace definitely beat Palpatine in that fight. And Yoda almost beat him, but for some reason, he decided to have a "Hey, if you can throw pods, so can I" moment. Yoda unfortunately was unlucky in that he hit another pod and fell further whereas Palpatine was lucky to fall to a pod with a railing.

If you look at the fight, I don't think Palpatine is faking, he is in a fight to kill. Even the novelisation points this out. Windu distracts Palpatine's attention by drawing him to the window. Palpatine also became arrogant in thinking after he had killed 3, he would be able to easily destroy this last one.

Palpatine doesn't beat Mace, but he is an absolute master at using a situation for his political ends - in this case a Jedi assassination attempt as proof of the Order's treachery to the Senate.