PT How could the Jedi not sense that palpatine was evil

Wow, that's interesting. I never knew about any of that. Certainly does suggest the Dark Side is stronger, at least in that aspect.

 

I like what Darth Revan said about the differences between the Jedi and Sith:

“I am Darth Revan, Dark Lord of the Sith. Those who use the dark side are also bound to serve it. To understand this is to understand the underlying philosophy of the Sith. The dark side offers power for power’s sake. You must crave it. Covet it. You must seek power above all else, with no reservation or hesitation. The Force will change you. It will transform you. Some fear this change. The teachings of the Jedi are focused on fighting and controlling this transforma-tion. That is why those who serve the light are limited in what they can accomplish. True power can come only to those who embrace the transformation.” (Darth Revan Holocron, Jedi vs Sith, Ryder Windham).

 

oh come on,the dark side is not stronger
it's just quicker to tap into

since we're going on a technical level, the force is the force. You can either use it for bad purposes or good purposes. there is no stronger side. To say one side is, is like saying 'the right side of my nose is stronger than my left side'

 

If your long-term plan was to gain the control of the Senate and become the Chancellor of the Republic, then you would surely be ready to hide your Sith presence in front of the Jedi council.

You can ask the same question, why the Jedi didn't sense Darth Bane's new Sith Order, and the Jedi thought that the Sith were destroyed 1,000 years ago? It's the same, the fact that the Sith order could hide themselves from the Jedi order for 1,000 years, and then gain influence in the galaxy through the Trade Federation is also the same thing. The new Sith are trained to hide their presence, even in front of a Jedi.

Even people who are not even trained as a Sith, can hide their presence in front of the Jedi. Quinlan Vos was secretly a dark sider in Dark Disciple novel for a while, and Yoda only sensed that when he touched Quinlan Vos's hand, until that he couldn't understand it, because Vos was hiding his dark side powers. If even Vos can do that, trained Sith Lords can do far better.

That's also how Anakin caught the Jedi off-balance during Order 66, remember Anakin was leading the attack to the Jedi temple, and he was using the dark side, but the other Jedi couldn't sense that Anakin was a dark sider. That's why the Jedi failed stop Anakin and they thought Anakin was still a Jedi.



There are also other dark siders like Pong Krell and Barriss Offee, the other Jedi in the temple couldn't sense their dark side.

 

Evidence the Dark Side is stronger:

Luke uses the dark side to defeat Vader.
Palpatine woukd have killed Luke with the Dark Side power of Force Lightning.
Palpatine uses the Dark Side to return.
Darth Maul survived being cut in hall and falling down a shaft because of the Dark Side.

The Jedi when maimed severely or thrown down a shaft die. Sith survive.

 

Depends on your definition of strength. In a battle Dark Side powers tend to be more intense and damaging, but it can also be more of an accomplishment to defeat a foe without killing them in the way Obi-Wan, Anakin, Luminara, and Barriss achieve on Ansion.

And a Jedi when thrown down a shaft might die instead of use rage to survive like Maul, yes lol-- but that may be a difference in philosophy as well. Sith are obsessed with immortality, as evidenced by Palps and many of his precursors, whereas the Jedi Code teaches "There is no death, there is the Force" and that you should become one with it.

...becoming more powerful than you can possibly imagine. From a certain point of view.

Anyway yeah I think Palps pulled the wool b/c most of the Jedi/Republic leadership were sniffing their own farts.

 

Correct - its mentioned by both Mace & Yoda along with Yoda saying "If discovered our weakness they have...." then more trouble shall ensue or something like that. Basically Yoda understands that the jedi are NOT all powerful and do have some problems with the mental warfare side of the force. I felt this was conveyed fine in the prequels.

 

The whole become “one with the Force” concept of the Jedi is depressing. The Force Ghosts like Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Luke, and Yoda are in rebellion to the will of the Force (see Force Ghost, Wookieepedia), they retained their individuality and haunt the land of the living because they disobey “becoming one with the totality of the Force,” which means to be absorbed and cease to be and lose your personality and individually; who wouldn’t want to escape such a hellish non-existsnce?! The Sith seek immorality because it can be achieved.

 

Why do people try to describe the Force in subcategories and labels? Why do they insist that one has to follow a set of rules to use or understand the Force? Why do they do that? It's like dealing with people unable to accept that life itself is basically chaos with no real guarantees. Is that so frightening to consider?

 

What do you mean here? Whos "they"? The Jedi in the movies or us fans?

 

The Force clearly manifests in two forms: Light and Dark. We see it through Canon and Legends, two sides: “Darkness Rises, Light to meet it.” (Snoke, TLJ).

As for life being chaos, that’s not my value system and beliefs.

 

It's mine. I've been seeing chaos unfold throughout life for years. So many criticize the Sith for engaging in absolutism, yet many of the Jedi and other characters seem to do the same. And so do many fans in trying to explain the Force.

 

Doesn’t mean it’s wise to achieve it. A hellish, corrupted and perpetual existence sounds worse than non-existence to me.

 

The Force has been interpreted in Canon and Legends for a log time. GL, writers and directors like JJ reinforce the fact there are absolutes, A Light Side and A Dark Side. You serve either side weither as mystics (Jedi or Sith) or governmental (Imperials/First Order, Republic/Rebels)

 

I think what people are getting at is that the force is basically like life itself. The Jedi generally attempt to do what is best overall, but just like with life, you can do something that is good yet still have it lead to bad results. And much like with the dark side, you can do the wrong thing for the right reasons. Although it is never stated in the films, Anakin basically adopts the mentality that the ends will justify the means. Yeah, I'm gonna kill the Jedi Order and essentially allow the birth of a despot, but I'll get to keep my wife alive and eventually kill Palpatine and rule the galaxy with my wife. "Make things the way we want them to be."

I understand why you mention GL, JJ, and other writers, but I feel like maybe even those people don't exactly understand the philosophies of life. And I don't mean they don't know of them. I'm sure they've studied philosophy. I'm just saying I don't think they REALLY understand them. I can't see JJ Abrams meditating and thinking about the complexities of life for hours every day, he's a busy man. Same goes GL and the many other people who have helped write and craft Star Wars.

 

Well they are both I am afraid. They aren't looking at Palpatine, he just needs to use the skill of force hidding. The Jedi are not looking inside the Republic.

Even in RotS when the Jedi think Sidious is influencing the Senate they DON'T suspect Palpatine since 'he already rules the galaxy'. The Jedi didn't get it they didn't see the forrest, all these trees are in the way.

 

And to admit that the Sith already has control of the government means the Jedi had failed everything spectacularly. That's not really something the Jedi wants to admit, that they, with all their wisdom and foresight into the Force, just apparently let this slip by their radar.