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Lit How did Krayt evade Luke's attention after FOTJ

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Darth Invictus, Jan 7, 2019.

  1. Vialco

    Vialco Force Ghost star 5

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    Mar 6, 2007
    Because Luke already went to Korriban and found nothing. He has no reason to go back, nor does any other Jedi. As far as they're concerned, there's nothing there but desolate valleys and empty tombs.
     
  2. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    He did, but he also discovered there was another Sith Lord afoot unconnected to the lost tribe in the book after he went to Korriban. Why not go to Ziost or any other planet in Sith space? Or investigate his movements after the fighting on coruscant. Ben's got detective training after all and the government would be supportive.

    So why, don't they hunt for lord Krayt?
     
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  3. Vialco

    Vialco Force Ghost star 5

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    Mar 6, 2007
    No, they wouldn't. The Galactic Alliance Senate voted the Jedi Order off Coruscant after the Abeloth Apocalypse.

    The Jedi Grand Master already searched Dromund Kaas. Ben went to Ziost before and found no living Sith. Even if they did go back, they wouldn't find anything. The One Sith were exclusive to Korriban.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
  4. EmperorHorus

    EmperorHorus Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 3, 2016
    Really? Surely we've established that there's no basis for assuming that they didn't
     
  5. Jeff_Ferguson

    Jeff_Ferguson Force Ghost star 5

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    May 15, 2006
    That's the kicker. In Ascension, he knows that Vestara's dad is somewhere doing something bad, so he goes to all the Sith planets to look for him. And what happens? He finds him.

    So, one book later, when he learns that there's another group of bad dark side dudes afoot... why wouldn't he do the exact same thing again? The thing that, you know, worked?

    I'll tell you the answer:

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    That's the OOU answer, and while it is the easiest I am more interested in whatever IU answer can be presented.
     
  7. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

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    Oct 13, 2003
    Maybe the Jedi Order did, Luke delegated it to some of the other 500 Jedi who weren't retiring like him? Not everything needs to be "on the screen."

    Also consider that only Crucible and Mercy Kill were released after FOTJ.

    The real question you should be asking is: why did they fail to find him? And those answers have been supplied in abundance.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
  8. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    They had 82 years to find him. Not ten, or five or twelve or twenty. 80 years. With a galaxy we know to be at peace.

    Why wasn't this top priority for the Jedi?
     
  9. EmperorHorus

    EmperorHorus Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 3, 2016
    Ok this is getting a bit silly. Maybe it was top priority for like 50+ years. You don't know that it wasn't.
     
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  10. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    Maybe so, I still think it's an interesting query to consider.
     
  11. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

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    Oct 13, 2003
    No, it's not interesting at this point.

    And the old Jedi had CENTURIES to find Vitiate's Sith, or the Old Sith Empire, or the Banite Sith, or the survivors that Darth Ruin would late reunite, etc. Heck, Yoda was in the same room as Palpatine several times over 13 years and couldn't "find" the Sith.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
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  12. Jeff_Ferguson

    Jeff_Ferguson Force Ghost star 5

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    May 15, 2006
    Do I need to say it a fourth time? Alema found them in five minutes by doing nothing more than asking a random villager about them. Luke had already successfully found some Sith by going to the various Sith worlds. If the reason that he couldn't locate the One Sith is because he never considered asking anyone about them...

    Writing. Krayt. Into. FOTJ. Was. Stupid. The mental gymnastics on display in this thread are pretty entertaining, but I can't figure out why anyone would want to be an apologist for the dumpster fire that was FOTJ.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
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  13. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

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    Oct 13, 2003
    Oh of course it was stupid, no gymnastics here. But it’s always been easier for Darksiders to find other hidden Darksiders, and Jedi to find other hidden Jedi. This isn’t the straw that broke the camel’s back, there’s plenty of IU reasons. It was much more stupid for Alema to find them so easily than Luke to have trouble. But this is the galaxy that had teenage Palpatine engineer the death of Darth Tenebrous to meet Plagueis, that had Anakin build C-3PO, that had Vergere teach Krayt and Jacen, and the One Sith behind the Dark Nest. This had Qui-gon pick Mos Espa on Tatooine of all places. Etc.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
  14. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    That’s nice.

    Krayt hid by hiding. We know he had some influence in the Unknown Regions because that is where he found Nihl, and that was a likely a satellite galaxy so Krayt could easily have hidden there.

    Vestara used the hounds to warn any Sith that existed and the hounds were hardly going to differentiate. Put into place that Luke had scoured every known Sith world anyway and it’s more likely Krayt just didn’t hide on a known world.

    We do however also know that he maintained Sith in the Korriban underground necropolis too. So we have several components to explain how he escaped detection.

    There’s very little conjecture involved here.

    Otherwise, I’d like to address that there were 30 One Sith. There were 30 present when Alema visited, and not all the One Sith were on-world per the next meeting of them to discuss destroying Vectivus’ asteroid. Luke’s Order grew from 300 to 1000 members between 36 and 44 ABY, so it’s hardly inconceivable that the One Sith grew similarly, even before you account for any Tribe defectors.

    If anything, that the One Sith come to distinguish between ‘Born Sith’ and ‘Converted Sith’ is likely a result of the One Sith absorbing the Tribe beliefs about racial purity.


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  15. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    Wait what? How did palpatine engineer tenebrous' death? He was barely aware of the Sith.

    Vergere teaching Jacen isn't implausible, her running into Krayt conveniently is.

    @Sinrebirth-isn't companion Besh rather distant and somewhat hard to reach from the main Galaxy?
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
  16. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

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    Oct 13, 2003
    Subtext Mining.

    And I was saying it was crazy to have Vergere train both Jacen AND Krayt, but yes, Krayt running into Vergere is another example.
     
  17. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    Well it was Xoxaan who trained Krayt technically, she just talked to him while he was in Vong captivity for the most part.
     
  18. Jeff_Ferguson

    Jeff_Ferguson Force Ghost star 5

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    May 15, 2006
    The One Sith were hiding on Korriban for a century --- that was established right from Legacy 0. Denning was aware of that. Conjecturing that they left Korriban to hide on another world or in another companion galaxy is nothing more than scrambling to try to clean up Denning's mess, and brushing aside the very first source to mention the One Sith in the process. One can do all the reaching they want to try to make sense of it in-universe, but that has no bearing on how stupid of an out-of-universe decision it was. Keeping in mind Denning's comments about Legacy being "one possible future" (ugh) and you realize that he may very well have been deliberately trying to break canon by including Krayt in A-Poc. No fan should have to try to clean up that mess.
     
  19. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    Krayt viewing Abeloth as a threat to his own plan is logical. It even makes some sense that he might want to intervene personally to ensure her defeat.

    But having re read Krayt's appearances in Apocalypse-it's so clear now how much of an audience wink and tease he is. The Jedi discuss a mysterious dark side observing the fighting on Coruscant, they discuss how one Jedi sensed his aura and tried to take him into custody and then was disarmed and told "not yet Jedi, Abeloth first", with Luke not knowing who he is and them noting his tattoos aren't in the lost tribe's style. They even say "well we shouldn't pick a fight right now" His dialogue with Luke is so obviously intended to excite the audience "Caedus didn't prevent the future, he delayed it", "we shall see master Skywalker"-stuff that makes sense as a way to advertise Legacy but makes no sense IU-Krayt is outright taunting Luke, and confirms that he is the dark man by his delaying statement and implicit "I'll win you just wait and see" statement.

    It's not good dramatic irony-it's cheap and it doesn't make sense IU.

    Krayt joining the fight against Abeloth out of self interest I can believe, nothing else about his appearance in FOTJ make any sense at all.
     
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  20. EmperorHorus

    EmperorHorus Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 3, 2016
    Seems like you're more focused on an (admittedly somewhat relevant) anti-Denning tirade than strictly the topic of discussion. Not that you aren't largely spot on with all your complaints mind you. But I don't think any of this changes the fact that assuming that no one hunted for Krayt after FOTJ is completely baseless and bizarre.
     
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  21. I do not understand why Krayt did not attack in the moment when Luke died
    The creation of the imperial knights could have been avoided or maybe Jaina or Ben Skywalker were stronger than him
     
  22. Havoc123

    Havoc123 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 26, 2013
    It's also possible that the Jedi knew of where the One Sith were, but because they didn't really do anything wrong, they couldn't really do anything about them. You can't really just barge in and arrest a bunch of Neo-Nazis for simply existing, if they haven't committed any crime. Up until the sabotage of the Ossus Project, the One Sith never really committed any (public) crimes, from what we know, and the Fel Empire was willing to align with them, so all we know is they weren't really 'hidden' as much that they were sitting on Korriban, and the NJO couldn't do much about them, because Krayt didn't really commit any crime, neither did Talon, Wyyrlock, Nihl nor any of their predecessors.
     
  23. Nobody145

    Nobody145 Force Ghost star 5

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    Feb 9, 2007
    While I'm a big Luke Skywalker fan, I think there's some... misunderstanding about just how important he is (the sequels' excuse of a plot doesn't help either with that perception). Despite the novels' failure to use them well, there were other senior Jedi that could get stuff done aside from Luke (Kyp, Corran, Saba, etc.) not to mention Jaina and Ben. Just because Luke probably died at some point in between Crucible and Legacy #1, doesn't mean the One Sith would have had free reign to do whatever they felt like.

    While Krayt will have trained up a Sith army (or two) by the Legacy comic era, that's not enough to take over the galaxy. Maybe if it came down to a giant Jedi vs. Sith melee Krayt might win, but that wouldn't help that much with his goal of bringing order to the galaxy. As the Legacy comics mentioned, the One Sith revealed themselves to the Moff Council after the war had started. Emperor Fel didn't like it but the war against the GA wasn't going that well, partially thanks to Jedi support, so the Moffs forced Fel to ally with the Sith. Just as the Sith (and some of the Moffs) had planned.

    Krayt didn't have a rival superpower Sith Empire like we see in SWTOR. That would have taken centuries longer and Krayt's clock was already ticking. Krayt's Sith instead secretly destabilized things, put the Empire in a position where they couldn't refuse his help, then seized the throne, getting control of the Imperial Fleet with which to rule the galaxy, as well as the GA bureaucracy (which the Empire had just conquered) with which to actually run the galaxy.

    Anyway, back to the original topic, you're putting too much thought into a badly written novel. There's no deeper meaning or secret plan, even if the old EU hadn't ended.
     
  24. Noash_Retrac

    Noash_Retrac Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2006
    OOU explanation: Troy Denning was ignoring Legacy's timeline in favour of his own version of Star Trek's "Shatnerverse" (much to our crazed madness).
    IU explanation: Luke likely had other things on his mind: Abeloth, Mara, Ben, his sister, Han, the GA, the galaxy, the Empire, the Jedi Order post-Coruscant, those "smart" Columni brothers, Vestara, Ship, Hapes, anti-Jedi, Yuuzhan Vong damaged worlds, unaligned worlds, the anti-slavery movements, Daala, losing allies every day, his own health post-Shimrra, not dealing with his son's molesters, not sending Tahiri to Zonama Sekot where she belongs, etc. etc. etc.
     
  25. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    To be fair, Krayt has Roan, Marasiah, Kol, Nat and Cade (and Ania) to deal with, in terms of Skywalker descendants...

    ... maybe he waited until Allana died?


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