main
side
curve
  1. Welcome to the new boards! Details here!

PT How did the Battle of Naboo influence the Separatists?.

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Iceblazer, Sep 14, 2020.

  1. Iceblazer

    Iceblazer Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Sep 7, 2020
    I've started an I-IX marathon, and filling gaps with EU.
    To connect I and II, I'm looking to find out if the Battle of Naboo helped start the separatist movement?, or if another even altogether did it?.
    I know the lack of acting on the Naboo crisis, showed the Senates inability to do anything, but it seems this has been going on for decades, I'm trying to find material to explain why this event was a deal breaker.
    Thank you in advance.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2020
  2. antitoxicgamer

    antitoxicgamer Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 9, 2020
    I know the Episode 1 events made Nute Gunray to hate Padme. That is why in the arene he gets angry when Padme survives that monster.(Nuke even says that "she is cheating!" and tells Jango to kill Padme there.)

    As for how it effected them, it made Neimoidians to hate the republic and form the separatist movement because of this that they saw that the new chancellor is completely against them.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2020
    devilinthedetails likes this.
  3. Subtext Mining

    Subtext Mining Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2016
    The novels Cloak of Deception, Darth Plagueis and The Approaching Storm shed some additional light on these areas.

    Also The Queen's Shadow and The Queen's Peril, possibly. Can't remember. But they're good. :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2020
  4. AusStig

    AusStig Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2010
    Maybe not so much Peril, as it is set up to and during TPM. Same with Cloak of Deception and Darth Plagueis.

    Battle of Naboo's main effect seems to reduce confidence in the Republic and push more systems to look for something else.
     
  5. Subtext Mining

    Subtext Mining Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2016
    The above mentioned books go into these longstanding areas and how it lead to Naboo being a turning point.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2020
    devilinthedetails likes this.
  6. devilinthedetails

    devilinthedetails Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 19, 2019
    In Queen's Shadow, which is a New Canon YA book by Claudia Gray, Mon Mothma and Bail Organa, who would later become allies and friends of Padme, are initially a bit wary and distrustful of her in the Senate because based on her decision to champion the interests of her planet when she was Queen during the Naboo crisis and to push for the vote of no confidence that ended up ousting Valorum from power, she has made them wonder if she is the type of Senator more committed to serving the interests of her own planet than of the Republic per say. So it is possible that Padme's actions might have inspired some politicians to worry about their own worlds first and the Republic itself second whether that was what Padme intended or not. Personally, I sort of liked that detail of since I think it emphasized that the development of the Separatist ideology and movement had been brewing for a decade as a way for some worlds and politicians to demonstrate their frustration and disaffection with the Republic. It is the kind of backstory that there isn't time to include in the movies but does make a lot of sense and adds to the worldbuilding, I think.

    I still think the most significant consequences of the Naboo Conflict were that: 1) It was Palpatine's pretext for having Chancellor Valorum removed from power and 2) It allowed Palpatine to get enough of a sympathy vote in the Senate to secure his election as Supreme Chancellor the Republic (I don't believe that he was genuinely surprised by his nomination or election to Supreme Chancellor since I think that is what the Naboo crisis is really about: getting him to be Chancellor rather than any trade disputes). Palpatine is the mastermind behind the Separatists becoming the political force they do and behind the war where he skillfully played both sides, Republic and Separatist against each other, to destroy both and become the absolute dictator of the galaxy. So, I believe the most important aspect of the Naboo Conflict in terms of the Separatist movement is the fact that it is what allows Palpatine to become Chancellor in the first place. Without the Naboo Conflict, Palpatine might never have become Chancellor. So I think that was Palpatine's ultimate goal with the Trade Federation invasion of Naboo.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2020
  7. Deliveranze

    Deliveranze Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2015
    That is interesting. I think that kinda ties in well with AOTC. A criticism of AOTC is why would the Separatists want Padme dead if she is against the creation of the Republic military? Well, despite the Sith wanting the war to happen and Padme's assassination is more for the Trade Federation than the CIS, Padme's death can be spinned into pro-secessionist propaganda. Padme would unwillingly end up as a martyr to the Separatist cause. An anti-Republic militarism senator assassinated? That can look bad for the Republic as a whole and make other systems believe the Republic is war hungry.

    Padme's beliefs seem to parallel separatist ideology, but her distinct faith in the Republic separates her from pro-CIS leaders. Of course, to many, like Anakin in ROTS, she "sounds like a Separatist."
     
  8. devilinthedetails

    devilinthedetails Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 19, 2019
    Yeah, I like Queen's Shadow because it focuses on the politics of that era between TPM and AOTC where I think so much must happen, and it also really shines a spotlight on Padme's character, which is nice, since she was often neglected in the old EU in my opinion. And I kind of like the idea that Bail and Mon Mothma didn't initially trust Padme but came to do so as she proved her loyalty to the Republic beyond doubt.
     
  9. KyleKartan

    KyleKartan Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 4, 2004
    Queens Shadow and Queens Peril are not from Claudia Gray but Emily Kate Johnston :)
     
  10. devilinthedetails

    devilinthedetails Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 19, 2019
    You are right. Thanks for pointing that out. Oops from me.
     
    KyleKartan, AusStig and Iron_lord like this.
  11. AusStig

    AusStig Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2010
    Would have been interesting if people had sighted the battle of Naboo and Padme's actions as the example they followed in joining the CIS
     
    Deliveranze likes this.
  12. whostheBossk

    whostheBossk Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 16, 2002
    It's a neat parallel to Padme's true intentions. Her being against the use of clones was the reason I thought for her to be assassinated? It would allow Palpatine to pull strings to promote one of his cronies to advance the creation of a clone army. (Despite my son playing with his TPM 3.75 Padme saying she wants clones). But then Padme living presents her to pull on Anakins emotions more which Palpatine/Sidious would want?
    The battle was filled with twist and turns as Sidious didnt expect the Gungans to side with the Naboo. How de he treat them after the battle? We should have seen them fighting in ROTS. Politics wise, Palpatine spent the 10 years before AOTC building his cabinet of advisors (remember the Asian lady to his right in the TPM Senate pod, replaced by creepy Sly Moore). How do the Jedi not pick up on this? The Seperatist were forming due to Palpatine giving Dooku inside info that help Star Systems break away in fear of a war. This is what Jedi Sifo Dyas predicted but was shunned off the council.
     
  13. Samuel Vimes

    Samuel Vimes Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    Intersting topic,

    No doubt the events of TPM did not paint the Senate or the Republic in a very favorable light.
    But consider, which planet would feel the most angry and let down? Naboo.
    The TF blockaded their world, for reasons that had nothing to do with them. The TF just tried to strongarm the senate about some trade tax. The Senate could not do anything.
    The TF actually invaded, very likely killed people, put them in camps and were starving them. And their leader went through considerable danger to reach the Senate to tell them what happened.
    Result? Nothing, she was not even allowed to finish talking.
    They won their freedom mostly by themselves, two Jedi and one kid helped.

    So if any planet would feel fed up with the Republic and it's useless Senate, it would be Naboo.
    Would have made for an interesting ep II, that Naboo wants to break off and Padme, despite personally thinking staying in the republic is better, still has to represent her people.

    Also, what happened in TPM? The TF displayed a total lack of restraint and not only blockaded a small world but then invaded it and put it's people in camps and starved them.
    The same TF and other big companies were apparently behind much of the corruption in the senate.
    And while the TF lost, Nute went through the courts and was never sentenced for anything.

    So smaller world, like Naboo, could look at the Senate and see that it is in the pockets of the TF and other big companies. That they can do as they please and suffer no consequences for it. So they could ask themselves why they want to be a part of this corrupt system.
    What makes less sense to me is why these systems would fell better off with a government run by the TF and other big companies?
    Why would that be any less corrupt?
    And the TF hardly showed themselves as "friend of the ordinary people" in TPM.

    You could have done an ep II where Naboo and other smaller worlds wants to leave, the TF wants to stay as they have the senate in their pocket. And since the TF and others have big armies, it is the seps that make clones. To protect themselves.

    But Padme accuses Dooku, the leader of the seps. If she was killed and some evidence linked the hit to him, that would look bad for the seps. They murdered an advocate for peace.
    Plus what the seps are planing makes it clear that they are not interested in painting themselves as the good guys. They have built up a huge army and they will use it to overwhelm the Jedi and force the Senate to do what they want. Make their demands at gunpoint.
    So they are not concerned with seeming like victims. The TF used force against Naboo and the seps wants to use force against the Republic to get what they want.

    Padme was against the army bill, the clones were not a part of that at the time as the senate was not aware of them.
    Why she was targeted was two fold, one Dooku had promised her death to get Nute onboard and two, she was an obstacle to the army bill. With her death, Nute is with the seps and the army bill can pass.
    Then when Dooku has finished putting the seps together and the Kamino contacts the Senate to ask "Where do you want your clone army?" Palpatine can just let Dooku know and Dooku makes a threat or attacks some republci world, the senate panics, gives Palpatine powers, the clones are used and the war starts.

    You mention thing that Sidious did not expect. I am pretty sure that he planned for Padme to die and he did not plan for Obi-Wan to find Kamino or go to Geonosis or any of that.
    Like in TPM, he adapted his plans when the situation changed.

    Bye for now.
    The Guarding Dark
     
    AusStig likes this.
  14. AEHoward33

    AEHoward33 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2019
    I think that is pretty much spot on. Not only did the Naboo conflict served as Palpatine's stepping stone to absolute power, so did the Clone Wars. After all, both were his creations.