ST how different do you think a Lucas ST would've been?

This entire forum is full of people who exist purely to tear something down, Leona.

 

I always thought all talks about what is canon or not by LFL to be just PR stuff. No matter how hard they try, live action and animated stuffs will always trample everything else, that doesn't mean we can't enjoy the stories. I'm still playing Legends games so long as I'm still having fun playing them and whether my computer could support them, that's the only conditions that matters to me.

The Maul/Talon dynamic is something GL tried to push in a Maul game around the time of the Disney buyout. He obviously didn't care about them belonging in different time period in-universe even though they're aliens so technically that could have been possible, but then again GL described Maul as "old" by the time of the ST so I guess not. Talon's design is probably what appealed to him so then he decided to recycle it for his ST just like Aayla Secura.

 

Yoda's actions aren't character assassination in the PT. ESB Yoda isn't destroyed by them and doesn't need correcting.

Belittling people over what they like, like that, isn't appropriate.

I think that shows a continuation of his moral compromising and taking revenge. I don't have the perception that all of Anakin's drive is just for Padme. I think Anakin's moral compromising, ego, fear of loss, drive him.

How does it make little sense that Anakin, whose thing is developed to be a fear of loss, would not want to abandon the man who helped train him for about a decade, and soldiers he's fighting with, to die?

It's hardly a back pedal. Anakin's supposed to be a jedi. He's supposed to be someone who take heroic actions and is suggested to have, in AOTC, and is shown to want to help the group in TPM. This isn't a new trait thrown into ROTS, at the last minute. If anything, I'd say it's more likely that Lucas felt it necessary to show, on screen, Anakin seeking to be heroic, while maybe recognizing he didn't in the last movie.

Why belittle the Yoda stuff as kinship to Fast & Furious, but, seemingly, regard a scene that adds nothing to the characters or the story of the characters or the story in general, as redeeming the character.

Ren's conflict is only regarded through pouty faces and words. Not in actions. His conflict is all a show, not a development. Not matter the supposed conflict, Kylo keeps doing what he does, for no reason, with no real goals, motives or real origin.

The movies don't develop that he's been duped by the dark side. If Ren's actions of trying to murder everyone, don't showcase evilness, what does?

 

This essentially using some of the pitch Lucas apparently presented, but mixing with some of TFA. In changing that and with those, here are the ideas God, if He wills, has blessed me with:

THE FORCE AWAKENS:

Essentially in the years after of the destruction of the Empire, there was a power vaccum left. As our heroes worked to structure the new republic, the Yuuzhan Vong crawled out from the outer rim of the galaxy and sought to fill the void, attacking planets and raiding them, showcasing their dominance in the universe.

Our heroes were forced to engage in a war against them. This war lasting years.

Luke trained jedi to fight against this threat. But the jedi weren't as effective of an army against them, as they were creatures who weren't vulnerable to the force. Luke's star student, Ben Solo, the son of Han and Leia, was appointed by Luke, as the leader of the new jedi in these battles, and over time became bitter and enraged at their losses, the loss of villages and lives, because of the jedi's weakness against the Yuuzhan Vong.

The new jedi order was attacked by them, several of the students murdered, powerless to fight them, the rest scattered, Luke lost it all, maybe even his daughter included and was faced with the idea that to defeat Youzhan Vong, he'd have to use dark side methods, and refused to do so. Luke refused to fight as a result. Ben Solo, embittered by this, left Luke. It seemed all was lost. Luke went into exile.

Until the First Order arose. Led by Imperial remnant governors, with a dark sider warrior General Talon leading their army, they fought the Youzhan Vong, Talon storming their capitol and murdering their leader, destroying their capitol in the process, the First Order using old Empire tech, Operation Cinder, to do it. This gained the First Order clout in the galaxy amongst some of the worlds. Which they quickly took advantage of and abused, under the orders of the Imperial Governors.

Bringing us to the events of TFA. A decade after these events, Ben Solo searches for the scattered students of the jedi school, keeping his lightsaber and using it in battle. He's, seemingly, our protagonist. The son of Han and Leia. He doesn't respect the jedi's idea of doing things, and resents that for the loss of his friends, and cousin, in the destruction of the jedi school. He's embittered by this and the First Order's attacks on lower class worlds, that the new republic fears getting involved in.

Ben comes to the junk planet, seeking out the scattered jedi, is found by the First Order, them wanting the location of Luke Skywalker. Ben, using his lightsaber, fights Talon, but loses. The First Order captures him. BB8 is Ben's droid, who escapes the battle, at Ben's request.

Finn, apart of the attack, is faced with, under the orders of Captain Phasma, like in the movie, slaughtering a village of civilians, after seeing one of the other stormtroopers die, his bloody handprint left on Finn's helmet. Finn doesn't do it, like in the movie. Talon senses Finn's hesitation, but keeps quiet on it.

Talon interrogates Ben, trying to peer into his mind, seductively taunting his weakness in jedi training. Finn, as a way to leave and get piloted out, helps Ben escape.

Like in the movie, the 2 are separated, though Ben doesn't disappear here, like Poe did in the movie. Finn thinks he's dead, continuing on, after seeing the crashed ship sink and explode, not realizing his ejector landed him farther away. Finn taking his jacket.

Rey's character is largely the same, fearful of moving forward, due to a past trauma she can't really remember, she tries to define herself by her past. At first she's caught up in a fight she doesn't want to be a part of, but does go along with. She finds BB8.

When Finn and Rey find eachother, like in the movie, BB8 telling Rey that Finn is a thief who stole it's owners jacket, and Rey attacking him over it. Finn lies, saying he's a resistance member. But here is where Ben shows up again, lying for Finn and telling Rey that he's telling the truth. Ben, having tracked BB8 to this location, realizes that Rey is the jedi that he'd been looking for, sensing her force potential. Rey, saying that she has no knowledge of that beyond legends. But Ben and Rey both realizing that they share a force bond. Rey has no idea what this means, but knows that she can trust Ben. Ben showcases a larger understanding of what this means, but bites his tongue.

Ben, Rey, and Finn, are attacked by the First Order ships with Talon on the ground, who battles, but doesn't kill them, though she continues to, in charged banter, taunt Ben's weakness in tactics and jedi training, citing the loss of the jedi students, using his guilt regarding that, his emotional recklessness and impulsiveness to unbalance him, allowing her to read his mind, discovering where Luke has been exiled.

In their escape, Ben takes Finn, Rey and BB8 to his ship: The millennium falcon. Something his dad gave him. Very similar things happen. Finn and Rey bond and connect.

Leia's character is expanded upon more here, in the politics side of the story. Yes, there's politics. In keeping with some Disney expanded material, Leia was dismissed by the New Republic due to it being discovered she was Vader's daughter. The New Republic, having become too afraid of repeating the mistakes of getting involved in war from the past, have basically been hands off with the threat of the First Order. Leia pushes for help for the outer worlds that have been oppressed by them. They deny her. In her frustration, she's begun to feel the pressure of what she feels is an endless battle against what she sees is a continuation of the Empire. All of this on top of her and Han having been separated (yes, still, sorry guys), due to the disappearance of their son, after the jedi school destruction.

Ben, Finn and Rey are found by Ben's dad, Han Solo. Han is mostly the same, but he's not a much regressed character. He has gone back to being a smuggler. But he's acting as an informant for the Resistance (or whatever you want to call it), playing in the criminal underworld and gathering information in the process. Han found them, by having gotten word of the First Order chasing after the millennium falcon, hoping it to be Ben.

Ben and Han have a strained relationship, Ben believing his dad to have been against him being a jedi, seeing him gifting him the millennium falcon on his 18th birthday as a manipulation tactic to try and get him to quit. Over the course of the movie, Ben repairs his relationship with his dad, with the understanding that Han feared losing him to being a jedi, to a world that he didn't fully understand and couldn't connect with him over, never that he wasn't proud of the man he'd become, the hero he'd become. Ben himself realizing that he'd put being a Skywalker, his mom's side of the family, a jedi, first, and that he feels may have led to their rift. They re-bond.

Ben and Han decide to go after Luke, before the First Order get to him. Rey and Finn along for the ride, Rey, desiring to go back to jakku, like the movie, but engaged in the situation and a desire to be a hero, and Finn, afraid of what will happen when the First Order find him. Rey bonds with Han, as a replacement for parents she can't, or can barely, remember. Rey also talks with Ben about the force, him explaining it, how it works. Them connecting over that.

When they arrive on the planet where Luke is, a planet that's not an unfindable place, but has a space port and others on the planet.

Finn, still fearing the First Order, admits to Rey that he's not a resistance member, not a hero and that he's running away, that he's too afraid to get caught up with all this and is going to find someone who will get him safe passage out of here and far away from the First Order, asking her to come with him, but she doesn't want to.

The finding Luke arc is completed in the middle of the movie, at this point. This allows the OT characters one last hurrah together. Luke's force powers are muted currently, though he's still physically capable. This is in placement of the TFA cantina scene. Rey finds Anakin's lightsaber there, seeing maybe similar things, fearing them, and when confronted by Luke, who admits that that lightsaber was his once, and his dad's before him, with his limited powers, reading that she's force sensitive, and recognizing her, something Rey sees similarly. Rey, fearful of this and the visions she saw, runs away from it. The First Order reach the location and attack. They come in. Finn sees their ships and chooses to go back to the group. Luke hands off the lightsaber to Finn, not wanting to do battle. Finn uses it, the same as in the movie. Talon captures Rey and escapes. Luke, Han, Ben Finn and Chewie go to Leia.

Talon reports her progress to a cloaked mysterious figure, who states that it's time.

Luke, Han and Leia are reunited. Ben is reunited with his mom. Luke admits to Han and Leia and Ben that he failed them. Luke, with renewed goals, agrees that they have to rescue Rey.

The Resistance gains word from an unknown mole in the First Order, that they plan to use Cinder to destroy the New Republic, and retake the galaxy as the Empire reborn. Luke, Han, Leia, Ben and Finn work out a way to prevent it, Finn offering his assistance to get Rey. Ben senses that Rey is on the Cinder ship.

Han, Finn, Ben, Luke and Chewie infiltrate the ship, mostly the same there.

But Han is murdered by Captain Phasma, who Ben attacks in a rage and battles, nearly murdering her, but the job is then finished by Talon, much to Ben's confusion.

The fleet are able to destroy Operation Cinder, which does destroy the New Republic senate, but due to it's destruction and the warning from the unknown mole giving them time for some evacuation of civilians, the whole planet isn't razed.

Ben, in grief and rage, seek out the Imperial governors, only to find only one alive, the rest having been murdered... by a very much alive, but withered, Maul, no longer a sith.

Talon having been Maul's apprentice and plant in the First Order to sabotage their goals, also being the mole that leaked Cinder info, Maul seeking to destroy every remnant of Palpatine's Empire he spent decades trying to build, destroy that legacy. Maul offers Ben a way to continue to take down the First Order and use all this as a way to bring the galaxy to order, strength and justice. Ben murders the last living governor... and accepts.

Rey and Talon fight, and she is skilled, but is losing badly until she remembers what Ben said about the force and taps into it, the fight still one sided, but Rey getting an edge, the fight upended when Luke joins in, not using powers, but still physically capable. He helps and Talon is able to escape.

They both live. Talon rejoins Maul and Ben. Rey, Luke, Chewie and Finn escape.

The Resistance, Leia, Luke, Chewie and Rey mourn Han's death. Rey is concerned for Finn, whose still in a coma from his injuries. Luke reveals to Rey and he's her dad, and she tells him that she wants to be trained as a jedi and he, reluctantly, agrees, the movie ending with them standing on a mountaintop, and him handing her Anakin's lightsaber and her igniting it.

Please tell me what you think!

 

Touching back on this topic, I remembered recently that Lucas had selected Abrams to be the director of at least the first of the films for his trilogy, no? Or was Abrams only brought in after the franchise was sold to Disney?

If Lucas did select Abrams to take on directorial duties, I wonder what the combined efforts of both artists would have yielded. I’m also curious about which of Abrams’ works would have led Lucas to select him for his next movie.

We do know that Lucas was coming fresh from working on the development of the TV series Underworld, where he worked alongside scriptwriters from many of the popular shows from the mid-to-late 2000s. So perhaps it was Abrams’ influence in the television medium, and the mixture of that with film, that Lucas was curious about?

 

Lucas...didn’t choose Abrams.

 

I know there were at least a few indications that GL had picked Abrams to direct the films once he sold the franchise, but perhaps that was misreported. Admittedly, his son’s comment is more ambiguous than the article makes or seem. But I’d gotten the impression from somewhere else too. If it wasn’t him, it was probably Kennedy, though. And I’m pretty sure Lucas would’ve still been involved in that decision early on.

Perhaps the answer is simply that Abrams was popular and had rebooted the Star Trek movie franchise as well. But I do think a partnership between him and Lucas would’ve been an interesting balancing act.

 

Lucas wanted Dave Filoni to carry on his story - the same one he wrote the most SW stories with and the one who talks about GL the most and now the one in charge of the story now that LFL has went back to embracing GL.

Its all pretty clear how this has played out.

 

My apologies, this is the correct topic probably.

https://variety.com/2021/film/news/star-wars-marcia-lucas-kathleen-kennedy-jj-abrams-1235069465/

The topic doesn't specify if it is George or not, so if you ask me, yeah I would even rather have Marcia Lucas do the sequels if George didn't want to.

 

As much as I agree with her on the ST, she isn't someone who respects the PT, so I wouldn't have brought her to write the definitive Lucas-themed ST. In the same interview ya quoted, she mentions that she broke down and cried after seeing TPM because she thought it was terrible.

 

I’m very curious about how the Lucas sequels would’ve looked visually. I think they would’ve been as different from the prequel and original trilogies as those were from each other. There were definitely more dramatically different designs developed during the prequels that were not chosen for the final product.

I think it would’ve been cool to see how artists imagined the more utopic future of Star Wars. Of course, the New Republic would’ve still been in the process of formation, with the galaxy still healing from the Empire, and its growth would’ve been under assault from Maul’s criminal underworld. But still, the overall direction was hopeful, leading to a restoration of the Republic.

Perhaps some of these ideas survive in the aesthetics of the High Republic, though those can be hit or miss in my opinion. But that connection makes sense to me, down to the presence of a pirate/marauder threat. Has the HR had much focus on the criminal underworld yet?

Also very interesting to see would’ve been the role the Jedi Order would have. Numbering so few, probably still less than a hundred, it makes sense for the Order to be mostly hidden, with Jedi Knights only appearing when they are absolutely needed. (This reminds me a bit of Airbenders in the Legend of Korra.) This strikes me as similar to how fans imagined the Jedi before the prequels: as a smaller order mostly independent of the government, protecting worlds here and there based on where they were most needed, still being somewhat mysterious to the outer world.

 

I’ll give George this: Whatever his ST would have been, it would have looked visually unique. Which, imo, was badly needed.

 

I am sure that, much like the Prequels did, Lucas's sequel trilogy would have jettisoned the classic Star Wars tone/feel/aesthetic/production design for something less iconic and more overproduced.

Don't get me wrong, I love the prequels. Yet the look/feel/design of the OT is a vital component to making fantasy feel like a reality. In many ways the PT is lacking that. The tone is off visually.

Also, while the PT has rightly come to be more appreciated over the years, I don't think the new designs, wardrobe, etc are as iconic/impactful in larger culture as those of the OT.


I agree that, with the PT designs/visuals, it can be viewed Lucas growing/expanding the Star Wars aesthetic. Yet, it was in many ways that departure that it made the galaxy feel less Star Warsy than it should have.

As I said, I am sure that Lucas's Sequels would have looked unique, but they would have been even further of a departure from the visuals that make Star Wars...Star Wars.

 

I like to think that had George headed a ST he would have had the wisdom to hire other decision-makers who hopefully would have curved George’s excesses.

 

This complaint has always made little sense. You can certainly dislike certain designs or think the final look was poorly-executed, but I think it's made clear that the OT looks the way it does because 99% of it takes place in the ass-ends of the galaxy in a time where everything sucks and people are barely clinging on to what they have.

The PT is deliberately different and showcases different worlds in a different time while still connecting certain elements. Especially TPM looks every bit as "gritty" as the OT did.

 

There’s 20 years between the end of the PT and the start of the OT. I think it’s fair to say that the galaxy going through THAT big of an aesthetic snd technological downgrade in that amount of time is…a stretch.

*I* can remember 20 years back and things didn’t look that different irl. My understanding is that George wasn’t that concerned with making sure that the PT aesthetic looked convincingly “a few decades before” the OT, that it just wasn’t a priority for him.

 

What "feels Star Wars-y" is a subjective thing. I certainly never had that issue with the PT. Here's some things that objectively happened on our planet though:

Spoiler: A plane that fought in World War 2

Spoiler: A plane that also fought in World War 2

Spoiler: A plane that fought in Vietnam

Spoiler: A plane it fought against

 

You missed one for Vietnam



But your point is well made.

I think the PT is as iconic as the OT. While the ST isn't, as it is trying soo hard to BE the OT.

 

Oh, I definitely disagree that the prequels were not as visually iconic as the originals. I can agree that they may not have had as much impact on the culture at large from an aesthetic perspective, that they may not have influenced other movies as much. But that’s a detriment in the movies that followed, not in the prequels. They were exquisitely designed. And, to my mind, post-2000s media culture actually became rather more bland than what 1999 seemed to promise. And that’s not these movies’ fault. They opened up a whole universe of designs that were as beautifully haunting as anything the originals introduced. And I like to believe Lucas could’ve at least done that again with his sequels.

 

As opposed to trying to appeal to nostalgia with every design? I think the ST is bland and forgettable and I think it's trying hard to play into what may be viewed as iconic OT visuals.

The prequels are usually in fairly different parts of the galaxy.

Having everything look like the OT... what's the point, visually? What does that add?

 

I think the PT will have the largest impact on the future of Star Wars. Mostly because its the trilogy with the most worldbuilding.