ST How do you build off the Sequel Trilogy moving forward

Either they are not meaningful to me (having his faith reignited and becoming a force ghost, I don`t care about either) or I don`t see them as remotely meaningful as the movie probably wants me to (the force puppet show, creating the five minute diversion, pfft, wasn`t inspired at all). Therefore they don`t remotely redeem the character from his sitting around and crying in his milk on that island. I thought that made him a loser, I don`t think what he did at the end of the movie remotely made up for it, hence I still consider him a loser. It`s fairly simple.

And really, there wasn`t an alternative to fighting in the end. Neither the First Order/New Empire nor Palpatine`s Wonder Fleet would have been defeated by smokescreens. I think people are aware that if you can use trickery to get out of a fight or at least divert the enemy for a bit, it`s a good idea. It was literally what Poe did in the beginning with the "Yo Mama" joke. Luke didn`t break new ground with the concept. Ultimately, in a war, you will still have to fight or submit to your enemy. Smokes and mirrors only won`t win you anything.

 

Luke wasn't an inspiration to the galaxy. TROS is canon, and it's clear from that movie that Luke's actions meant nothing to most of the galaxy except for apparently a couple of slave kids.

 

Why'd you have to remind me of this? At least BroomBoi has a hero.

 

I'm surprised I thought the Luke and Leia scenes were some of the most touching in the saga.

Luke really became a true image of a guardian of peace and justice. Amazing.

 

The film not only SUGGESTS that Luke is a loser. The movie SHOWS Luke to be a loser. The movie tells us that Luke never successfully trained even ONE Jedi. The movie shows us that Luke does NOT train Rey. The movie shows us that Luke is unsuccessful in stopping Rey from going after Kylo. The movie shows us a Luke skywalker who loses a skirmish to a newbie who learned about the force two days previously. He’s the one who ends up in the mud. The movie shows us a Luke who is hit in the head by yoda because of his failures and because he sat around moping for six years instead of getting off of his behind and doing something. The movie shows us that Luke was a failure because he died after a five minute light show that just distracted Kylo for a few minutes. It’s Rey who saves the few survivors. And now that Luke is dead, he can’t make up for his mistakes by teaching Rey and rebuilding his lost order. So much for failure being the best teacher, because he died soon afterwards and didn’t get the chance to learn from his mistakes and do a better job of training new Jedi. The film shows us that Luke is a loser because he dies leaving no legacy behind; no Jedi, no republic, no good new skywalker.

Even worse, TLJ shows us that Luke was a loser because it implicates Luke in causing Kylo to fall to the dark side, which means that according to TLJ, Luke is partially responsible for all the terrible things that Kylo has done.

If that doesn’t make Luke a loser, I don’t know what your definition of loser could possibly be. Luke even lost his personality, his core traits, his dignity, and his integrity in a TLJ. He was shown as a loser, all right!

 

Only you ignore what happened in the film. I think we've gone over this before.

I think you should watch it again, if you are going to really engage in discussion.

 

I can say the scene with Leia was the least bad scene Luke had in the movie for me but that doesn`t mean I was touched by it. The scene afterwards, the confrontation with Kylo, I just found lame. The reveal of the projection made me roll my eyes and then his death, I was checked out again. The broom boi tag just made me roll my eyes again.

So I wasn`t amazed at all. Different things for different people. I just find different things inspiring then what TLJ presented to me.

 

I think you ignored my entire post! Everything I said in it was what TLJ gave to us. Everything I said was shown in TLJ.

 

He's revealing something beyond kylos comprehension, that we are luminous beings..

I'm not. I just think weve had this discussion before and when myself and others make comments or answer questions or try to show a different perspective on a scenes intent, it goes largely ignored.

 

What does that matter to me finding the scene lame? The way it was filmed, blocked, edited? Also, the concept itself isn`t very meaningful to me. For the same reason Jedi becoming Force Ghosts at the end doesn`t mean that much to me personally. I wouldn`t have cared either way if Luke didn`t become one. At that point, the character was a write-off for me.

Like I said, I get inspired by different things. What Kylo comprehended or Luke thought or even Johnson thought makes no difference to me in not finding anything onscreen inspiring. I can hardly force myself to be all wow-ed and inspired by it. Even if I could, I wouldn`t. Either the movie just does it naturally for me or not.

 

To me, the only scene that was truly Luke Skywalker was the first thirty seconds of him seeing Artoo again. Then they ruined that with Artoo playing the old message.

Of course, that's a bit better than Han and Leia because I can't think of even thirty seconds in their appearances that was either Han or Leia - and that is totally on the writers. Chewie too.

 

I think the ST fails as a whole. I might dislike most of it more than people here might get the impression of. However, a scene in which Luke demonstrates an aspect of Yodas teachings which kinda went over his head as a youngster, and having him exemplify the true nature of the jedi *while* stepping in to save leia? Cmon now. Credit where credit is do.

 

I really don't see why Kylo would be that affected by Luke's light show. Just a couple hours ago he and Rey were doing the same thing. (Yes - I know these are supposed to be different force powers, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck....). And then Luke is dead, which was Kylo's original goal anyway.

 

But I don`t see the scene like this so it doesn`t mean the same thing to me. If that was supposed to examply the "true nature" of a Jedi, that would make me not want to have Jedi around. This is not a message that speaks to me.

So for me, I don`t think credit is due. If I felt it was, I would give it. I can credit something I liked or found worthwhile even in a movie I otherwise hated. I just didn`t feel the same here. Why is that so hard to accept? I can`t relate at all but I can at least accept people feeling completely differently than I do about the scene.

 

But its how the scene goes?

 

I`m talking about how I felt about the scene. You found it inspiring. I didn`t. No matter the scene, it can`t "make me" be inspired by it. I saw the same scene you did and thought "pfft, whatever".

I don`t want Jedi or their message if Luke in that scene is supposed to embody how they should be. I don`t want that. Plain and simple.

So why in all the heavens would I give credit to that scene then?

 

Maybe inspiring is the wrong word. Courageous? A lot could describe it, even "sad", in a way.

FYI jedi always been portrayed this way. Quigon, luke, anakin? Same mold, really.

 

It really makes no difference to me how someone could describe the scene, if they use positive or negative words, it still doesn't elicit an emotional reaction from me.

It does for you and therefore you give it credit. That's fine. It's just not me.

Sad would be a good descriptor for me after the movie was over. I didn't want to hate it or didn't want to hate Luke or feel like he was ruined. I just did.

Not to me or else I would have never liked Jedi. And yet I did, in the OT and the PT. Though they had their flaws there. I just don't like anything to do with Jedi in the ST.

By virtue of who the characters were on each side, I rooted more for Sheev Palpatine in the ST than any other force user.

 

I suppose I just don't understand the degree of negativity, or continued degree of negative discussion

 

This whole accusation that ST critics are being irrational/unreasonable who can never be pleased with anything

Dude are you trolling? She doesn't like the movie! lol

 

And there are people that don't understand the degree of positive discussion of the ST especially when it relates to certain aspects of it that are quite clearly on the wrong side of what is acceptable ie The whole Rey and Kylo relationship. If someone wants to say Luke's story worked for them fine all good. I will still argue that it comes out of nowhere when you look at the character in the OT and has 0 development since that is the case. The issue I and I think many others have is that there are problems with the narrative and elements of the films and instead of saying yeah I see those but I liked it anyway it's this whole long defense of something which continues this discussion often times it's just pure head canon presented as fact. If you like TLJ and the ST that's awesome for you I wish I did. If you want to talk and debate it in the forums people are going to debate it with you and not just praise it.

 

No its a real question.

Wouldn't trolling be more like continued negativity or directing any conversation back to the same negative one? I dont know.

FYI I'm no st praiser I've been pretty critical myself.

What I find confusing is the same hate on repeat.

Exactly.

 

I can understand the negativity complaint, as I've been negative myself. For me it's more of a venting thing, towards the ST and not towards anyone in particular. On the other hand, saying things like "you'll never be happy with anything" in regards to the ST just because we may not like parts of it is a bit insulting and more importantly, just not accurate.

 

I'm sorry, I was a bit harsh there.

I just see this narrative all the time on this board: that somehow the people who may not like one or all of these new films are just being unreasonable or irrational.

 

Its the repeat conversations i find strange. I dont see the point. For example if the st ruined star wars for myself, as has been expressed im sure, I dont understand how repeating exactly why you hated it, derailing convo back to the same hate, repeatedly, helps.

Anyways, moving on. Lol