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ST How do you build off the Sequel Trilogy moving forward

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Jid123Sheeve, Jul 9, 2020.

  1. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    ST's major problem is that it takes place within just 1 year. So very little room for stories between movies which means they will have to largely depend on OT to ST period. Very doubtful they are going to write stories after ST because of their "what if we make movies and have to de-canonize books and comicbooks that nobody read anyway" phobia.

    OTOH, PT is a treasure for stories because of big time jumps (10 years between TPM and AOTC, about 3 years between AOTC and ROTS).
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
  2. ScreamingWoman2019

    ScreamingWoman2019 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2018
    There's some post-TROS
    restoration/homecoming story implied in this trilogy, like those final chapters in LOTR after Sauron was destroyed. TPM had a prologue quality to it, and happened no less than 10 years before AOTC. 10 years is somewhere between chapter and a trilogy. A conclusion/epilogue.

    And...Snoke had trained (=had been killed by) 'one other' apprentice. Saruman outlived Sauron, and escaped both him and the good guys. So he/she wouldn't have been a part of the war.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
  3. StarWarsFan91

    StarWarsFan91 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2008
    So there is a clone wars sequel/spin off called the Bad Batch coming out next year.

    Its understandable why they are returning to the dark times. Popularity of the clones, Empire, Vader is still alive, Ahsoka and other Order 66 Jedi survivors, Inquisitors are around.

    Still no news about expanding the ST era or making another series connected to it. Sure there was Star Wars Resistance, but that wasn't focused on the Resistance forces from the ST much and ST characters played minor roles in it.

    I do love the dark times and stories about clones, but even I would have preferred a show that either is set during the ST or gives it some background.

    What about a series set during the year gap between TLJ and TRoS? Not a whole lot of time, but if there are not big time jumps, you could get two or 3 seasons out of it. See more of Rey becoming a Jedi, Leia training her, the Resistance recovering from its defeat in TLJ, etc.

    Or I mentioned from an earlier post, a series that fleshed out Jedi Master Luke and young Ben Solo.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
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  4. K2771991

    K2771991 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2019
    I think there's a very real risk with dipicting Ben as being too heroic prior to his fall while showing his escapades as a Jedi, which might no nesseserly mesh with the manner of his downfall and his personality in the films.

    I also think that, the way the NR is presented so far, the ability to dipict armed conflicts involving it prior to the ST is somewhat limited - at the very least if their are some major fights they need to have occured long enough prior to TFA for the NR to become complacent - I'd actually like to see a return of the Yevetha and the Ssi-Ruuk with their assosiated wars made somewhat larger; for instance a short but bloody war with the Yevetha around the same time of the Black Fleet Crisis in legends could traumatize the NR enough that it becomes desperate to avoid anouther conflict, as well as turn public opinion agianst them if they failed to respond fast enough to fully defend the worlds targeted by the Duskhan League (a re-imaging of Kueller might also be interesting, since I always found him to be a compelling character worth more the one book who was wasted by the somewhat medocre story of The New Rebellion)

    It seems to me that I says a lot more about some peaple around her then it does about the ST:p

    Come on guys, did'nt you hear what Jid123Sheeve said; constructive, not critism.

    The ST was also hughly profitable and becuse of it Star Wars experienced an influx of new fans who, in a decade or so, will probobly repersent the majority of the francise's fanbase.

    There's almost no way their not going to tell more stories, both before and after the ST. Not only is it profitable, but their are plenty of fans who want it and the ground is so fertile that plenty of writers are probobly eager to have a go at it.

    That's um...that's not a phobia they have.

    The only reason that happened in the first place was becuase it would have been impossible for Disney to make a sequal trilogy featuring the OT characters without being hamstrung by thirty-so-odd years of sometimes-contridictory lore and they wanted to give the writers as much freedom as possible.

    Having a major event that "closed" the saga did'nt stop Legends from writing a bazillion books about chasing remnants of the Empire while Luke trained peaple.

    Considering that Star Wars has been around since 1978 and has featured spice dealers and bounty hunters since the start, I'd say GOTG is actually the lesser Star Wars rather then the other way around - so to counter you I'll ask why I should watch lesser SW when there's real SW?;)

    There's also the chance that Luke trained other students as he was wandering around looking for Jedi lore and artifacts in the decade prior to him taking those twelve and formally reforming the Order (I'm hoping the names of the player characters shown in the trailer for Squadrons are just defualts that can be constumized along with their gender and appearence so that I can make Corran Horn for the Rebels;)).

    Given that Ben, Kai, Hennix and Voe are all shown in the above picture, I think that class is supposed to be the only one, it just took a while for whatever reason (possible becuase Luke was taking things slowly becuase he was'nt sure what he was doing and/or becuase he was running his academy like a sort of summer camp, with his students were spending a lot of time at home.

    By that logic, why should I have watched the PT or anything set prior to ROTS when I already knew that those Jedi who were either killed, went bad or ended up as "failures" in exile?

    Is it really so hard for you to imagine that some peaple might actually like these films, get invested in them and be intrested in further stories feturing their characters going forward?

    Palpatine/Snoke destroyed the temple. That's pretty obvious and all-but-said in the comic.

    It's Kylo - he's killing the guy from the flashback in TFA and for some reason the artist (probobly assuming that that vision was of him destroying the temple, which does'nt fit with TLJ) drew the character with a lightsaber.

    First off, why does training one apprentice equal being killed by them? Secondly given TROS it's entirely possible that Snoke is just a mindless puppet under Palpatine's control, so in this case the prior apprentices he was reffering to are Vader, Dooku and Maul.

    Lucasfilm's "word" was'nt that they were'nt going to make any more stories after TROS, all they said was that TROS was intended to be the end of the Skywalker Saga.

    As far as we know the decision to kill of Luke's order was Abrams, not LFLs, and despite what Respawn said the fact that Lucasfilm has allowed multipule works feturing Jedi indicates they don't have a problem with them; they probobly just assumed that a videogame featuring Mandos would be more sucessful and appealing (and perhaps more in Respawn's wheelhouse).

    The Empire had only a few Force users (and the most well-known and omnipresent of them was'nt even widley known to have the Force) and the Rebellion had four (and not all of them at the same time). Both groups are large organizations fighting a galaxy-spanning civil war, so it's entirely possible - heck, I'd even say its more then provable - for Cara to spend her entire career with the Rebellion/NR having never seen a Force user and having only heard what she may very well have dismissed as fanciful stories about the Force.

    Well, you see, he was grown from Palpatine's dna in the womb of Sly Moore and raised by the Prophets of the Dark Side. He later became a pacfist, which made Palpatine mad and cuased him to send him to spice mines of Kessel as a slave, were he was tortured to the point of madness by his three-eyed sorta-but-not-really half brother. He later met and fell in love with an aide worker who was somehow both a princess and Jedi, and together they had a child, who they hid to protect from his "father," and the rest is history...

    If you think that's stupid, you're right, but if you think I made it up your - sadly - very, very wrong;).

    I could see Poe becoming a central leader of the reformed New Republic, but not right away - he has no political experience and he'd need to go through some more devolopment to gain that. It would be an interesting twist for the character though (and a nice way for him to honor Leia).

    IMO I think it should actually be Lando who is the one to initally get elected to political office as the chancellor figure going forward - he has the experience, ambition and charisma for it to make sense and it would allow him to contiue to hold a prominant position in future stories.

    The Thrawn books have already introduced the Grysk, who seem to be a sorta of quasi-new Vong and are set up as being future invaders, so there's that.

    That seems rather pessimistic IMO; after all Vader dying at the end of ROTJ did'nt remove the potential about stories featuring his past.[/QUOTE]
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
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  5. Def Trooper

    Def Trooper Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2019
    I don't have anything to add that others haven't already said. I just don't think there is a way forward from TROS, at least not anything that doesn't just retread the obvious path that should've been taken with the OT characters. Which would largely leave us with a bootleg version of the old EU with maybe a few things swapped around.

    TROS feels far more final than even ROTJ did, and the conflict overall was just so much smaller; The First Order was a joke, there's no Republic presence whatsoever, Rey barely feels like a Jedi at all and she didn't seem interested in starting a new order, Poe has no political experience (and the Resistance had no political figures to install a new government, unlike the Rebellion), every possible villain died, Finn is too depressing to even think about, there aren't really any established side factions like the various organizations and independent systems in the PT films, etc.

    As others have said, the only real estate that Disney left themselves with is in the past, and Disney seems to agree based on where their current focus seems to be. At best, the only major ST-centric media I can see moving forward is a prequel focused on Luke's order.
     
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  6. K2771991

    K2771991 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2019
    So why not just invent some new characters who do have political experience*, along with some new villians to go with them? (all the possible villians died at the end of ROTJ as well, but that did'nt prevent legends from inventing countless new villians and canon from coming up with peaple like Snoke, Rax, Senator Sindian, Moff Gideon, ect)

    *as for those who currently exist there's Lando, as well as Captain Doza and Senator Xiono from Resistence, while the novelization of TLJ mentions that some senators survived the destruction of Hosnian Prime.

    The Hutts, the Corporate Sector, the rump Empire (assumings its still around and I really hope it is), the Chiss, the Gyrsk, the Sovereign Latitudes, the New Separatist Union and the Confederacy of Corporate Systems - and most of these have the benafit of having yet to be fleshed out.

    Some would consider that belief to simply represent a lack of imagination;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
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  7. StarWarsFan91

    StarWarsFan91 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Its a bit weird to say.

    The future of Star Wars lies in its past.
     
  8. K2771991

    K2771991 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2019
    Eh, I don't think that's true - IMO there's plenty of potential for stories going forward post TROS.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
  9. sian1965

    sian1965 Jedi Padawan star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2020
    I have realised something.....
    I don't really care anymore. For me, SW ended on a depressing, nihilistic note. It's ironic because I found it the most uplifting, hopeful franchise I've ever been hooked on.
    I made the mistake of falling in love with Ben Solo's character. As the last Skywalker I genuinely thought he'd be redeemed and survive. Instead, his function was as an organ donor for Palpatine's granddaughter. And JJ thought it was'fun'.
    I'm not interested in yet more 'prequel'era stuff. It's been done to death. We all know how the story ends. Post TROS I've come to despise Rey, and I've lost all respect for Finn and Poe since they were reduced to the Great Balance's whiny little groupies. The ST started out with a lot of promise. I never thought it would end on such a dreadful note.
    Skywalkers and Solos eradicated. Rey a cliche. The heroes'bloodline gone. The villain's living on. If five years ago someone had told me SW would end like this I would have laughed at them.
    Well, I'm not laughing now. The opposite, in fact. And I'm off Disney for good.
     
    Luna2112 likes this.
  10. StarWarsFan91

    StarWarsFan91 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2008
    There is some potential.....but FAR more if you take into account the pre-ST eras.

    With the High Republic about to be explored next year. A strong focus on the dark times era (Cassian, Obiwan, Fallen Order 2, Bad Batch), more New Republic era content (Mandalorian s2, Squadrons, rumored Rebels sequel, hopefully something with Luke and Ben) and probably one day the Old Republic era. It will be awhile until we ever see an expansion of material post ST.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2020
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  11. themoth

    themoth Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Absolutely. Good thing that’s a huge timeline.
     
  12. K2771991

    K2771991 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2019
    IMO legends already did the Old Republic Era to death, so I can wait on that; and honestly if they decide to go there I'd rather they start by just recanonizing Tales of the Jedi, KOTOR and TOR, since they don't conflict with anything.

    I suppose that was a possible path to take, but it was never set in stone (and he did survive - he got immortality as a Force Ghost); though I don't know why him dying would prevent one from still liking him - plenty of peaple like Anakin just fine and he died too, after all.

    I thought it was a pretty solid ending for him (minus the kiss[face_sick]); Kylo was a horrible person who had multipule chances to do the right thing and instead just chose to do the wrong thing agian and agian, cuasing massive suffering for both the galaxy and his family, and he paid for his mistakes with his life. But he died having chosen to - for once - do the right thing and help stop and evil far worse then himself, and sacraficed himself to revive his better "half*", a person who A) had treated horribly for most of the time he knew her and who B) is the last and best hope for reviving the Jedi Order - Kylo, had he lived, could never had done what Rey's setting out to do now, becuase even if he's not jailed/executed for his crimes nobody would ever entrust their child to him or allow him to form and lead and order of Force users.

    IMO it's defiantly much more meaningful then him ending up imprisoned or in a self-imposed exile on some remote planet were nobody can find him, which are the only realistic endings I can see for a Ben Solo who did'nt end up dying.

    *"better half" in that they share a Force connection and she uses that power for good, while he chose to use it for evil.

    That seems like an extreme reaction, no offense.

    I freaking hate - hate - Home on the Range, Chicken Little and Frozen, but I'm not going to stop enjoying Disney movies becuase they made a few films I don't enjoy. But hey, it's your money, spend it how you want it[face_dunno] - it's not like they care.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2020
    Iron_lord likes this.
  13. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    here's plenty you can do in the future post TROS, a new jedi order, a new goverment, new enemies for them to deal with htat rise up after the death of the sith. unforseen alien invasions.
     
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  14. obi-arin-kenobi

    obi-arin-kenobi Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2005
    Maybe Disney will learn to ignore the sad online trolls and hate so they dont have to cater to 1000 different directions. People dont want to admit it but that sad group is also responsible for the "messiness" that many see in the st, imo.

    Imo they'd benefit from less "pre" release stuff and just trust the people they hire to make a decent story.
     
  15. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    I wouldn't say that online "trolls" (one man's troll is another man's unhappy fan) are responsible for anything. They voiced their opinion. Studio didn't have to listen. I think the problem is that Disney is feedback driven more than any other studio. That's why they are the biggest but also rather creatively bankrupt. They make a decent formulaic entertainment that's also very calculated in that it doesn't take any risks that could result in alienating this or that demo. Now, what I think happened is that they thought SW fandom was just like Marvel fandom but, despite overlap, it is not. So they were shocked by backlash and then Solo bomb and when studios panic they make hasty decisions just like any panicking normie.
     
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  16. K2771991

    K2771991 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2019
    Sometimes.

    But a lot of times the troll under the bridge is just a troll under the bridge.

    I doubt Disney had anything to do with the pandering. IMO it's far more likely that was all on Abrams - Disney could'nt care less as long as they got a profitable movie, which they did and had no reason to think they would'nt get.

    I defiantly don't think their "panicking." Solo got good reviews and is generally considered to be a pretty solid film, and it's underperformance was due to a variety of issues that added up to make a perfect storm that a lot of films would have had issues performing under; peaple who are panicking don't authorize new TV shows, make plans to make anouther trilogy by the guy who allegedly is the root of their panic and make plans for Kevin Fiege to go make multipule films in the future - all they did was readjust their plans for the future a bit in light of the reality that they were facing (which they probobly would have done anyway no matter how Solo performed unless it was a runaway smash hit), and that's a far cry from "panicking."
     
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  17. obi-arin-kenobi

    obi-arin-kenobi Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2005
    In an age where tv/streaming is on an even, if not higher, playing field, these big production companies can now alter story and/or characters mid production to cater to unruly fans to limit negative feedback from the vocal crowd. What this crowd doesnt realize is that this very much so limits the creative process.

    People know what trolling is. Ignore them. What happened to people enjoying the element of surprise or excitement of going to the cinema experience. Its turned into a format of watching where the audience wants to be involved in the creative process and then they get bummed out when they arent amazed or thrilled when they see the end product. That's because they've spoiled themselves before release. Today, the product starts even before release. The trailer is the product, the social media is the product, and the actual release of the film is just the end of that cycle. People will bring up how such and such made less money than the prequels, but fact of the matter is that was a totally different era for the industry. Back then companies paid money to make trailers to bring people into the theater. Today, companies make money off of these trailers and it's part of the box office imo. It's just not officially or widely understood.
     
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  18. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Feige's #1 Fan and Ryan Church Aficionado star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    I’ve found that a lot of fans, even people I know that like the ST quite a bit, want to leave this era and these character behind. It’s a strange phenomenon. “I like it, but I really don’t want any more of it.”
     
    PendragonM likes this.
  19. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    They should pause it and then later revisit them like clone wars and Rebels did.
     
  20. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Feige's #1 Fan and Ryan Church Aficionado star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    Agreed. A 30-40 year pause, ideally.
     
  21. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    None of this will be in lesser canon because too big. They save big things for movies whether they'll make them or not. And with covid-19 striking the industry so hard and priorities getting switched around, they will want their immediate and next to immediate SW movies to be a sure success. Continuing with ST cast and off ST is not that. They are poised for diminishing results and after covid-19 they want whatever brings the fastest recovery.

    @obi-arin-kenobi

    I don't think the crowd doesn't realize that. In fact, feedback is a way of controlling creative process and tailor it to one's liking. You want something to happen but aren't getting it, you scream until you do. In fandom terms, fans make sure they get a number of screamers that will be too big and loud to ignore, and then launch the screamfest on platforms that studios keep an eye on. Take YT. One could say "it's the same people posting comments under every YT video that's pro______ and anti_______" but their number was obviously big enough and their voices loud enough, so Disney or LFL or JJ or whoever made creative choices, didn't ignore. Moreover, studios look for feedback because they want return on investment like any other business. If a small grocery shop starts losing customers they'll look for feedback to find out what changed. This is no different. And talent they hire knows that they'll have to give up part of their creative freedom. Full creative freedom is rare and not a good thing either (see Jackson's overbloated King Kong remake and The Hobbit trilogy and Apatow's over-bloated overindulgent Funny People). Point being, yes, fans take advantage of it to push for content they want to see, because they know that studios care about feedback. Again, studios don't have to listen but they opt to do if they feel that backlash is big enough to hurt their IP and if they see results (diminishing boxoffice , lower ratings).

    This is from another forum but sums up what went wrong really well methinks:

    Bolded sums up what's wrong with listening to feedback. It isn't listening itself but what one selects to listen.
     
  22. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    more like 5 years lol.

    Also i think stories with the ST will be in books, comis and annimations. while live action will be pre TFA or Post TROS maybe 100 later.
     
    K2771991 likes this.
  23. K2771991

    K2771991 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2019
    You don't have to tell me - I've long since learned that there's more the one way to cross a river; why cross the trolls bridge when I can just walk across a log or swim to get to the other side?;)

    Well, you "know" me, and I want more of it:)

    Or they can just wait a couple years and I can read the books/comics, play the games or watch the shows they make and you can just do something else - win win;)

    "New goverments, a reformed Jedi Order, new enemies and big alien invasions are too big for "lesser canon"."

    And yet we have over thirty years worth of "lesser canon" featuring just that[face_thinking]

    So then just make movies with new characters and continue with the ST characters in books and comics. Boom, done, problem solved.

    LFL panicked over a film that recived an excellent critical reception and made 1.333 billion dollers just becuase some peaple who watched it got really, really mad becuase they did'nt like it? Sure...o_O

    That's why Johnson was their first choice for a director after Trevarrow left and their giving him three more movies, becuase he made a film that cuased them to "panic."

    It's far more likely that the pandering was Abrams's choice, not Disney/LFL, becuase they have no reason to want to pander to anyone and he was the one who wrote and made the film.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2020
  24. obi-arin-kenobi

    obi-arin-kenobi Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2005
    I dont get it. Trolls by definition are a delusional bunch. I think the joke is always on them if that's what you mean, hence delusional.
     
  25. K2771991

    K2771991 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2019
    Trolls live under bridges.

    You know, Three Billy Goats Gruff? The fairy tale?
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2020