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ST How do you build off the Sequel Trilogy moving forward

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Jid123Sheeve, Jul 9, 2020.

  1. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    - The story of when the Sith first discovered Exegol.

    - How the Sith Eternal came to be and their role in prior wars.

    - How Sheev learned Essence Transfer and if anyone used it before him.

    - The origin of Snoke.

    - How the citizens of the New Republic perceive the events of Episodes I-VI.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2020
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  2. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2013
    If you’re going interject, at least have the common courtesy to read through the posts. I never stated that a stormtrooper revolt was a plot point in the ST. I suggested it could have been. What was a plot point, however, was that Finn defected and other stormtroopers went AWOL. As a plot point, that was never developed beyond using Finn as an exposition device to give background on the FO.
     
  3. obi-arin-kenobi

    obi-arin-kenobi Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2005
    I did. From what I gather is there are arguments being made against the film that are of fan projection. One side thinks this is the case, the other doesnt.

    What you are suggesting *is* fan projection. There was no revolt. There was no mass stormtrooper defect plotline to develop. This is something that JJ decided to throw into Tros, but it was never an abandoned plot point, prior. That's why I was confused because how can act 3 dictate what's wrong with act 1 and 2, which already happened. Act 3 is supposed to resolve plot points, not begin new ones.

    (Also I did say I apologize if there was a miscommunication)
     
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  4. Nom von Anor

    Nom von Anor Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 7, 2012
    I don't think we'll see anything substantial that builds off the ST for a long time. Because I just don't think the demand is there. This is only my personal observation, of course.
     
  5. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Give it 20-30 years.
     
  6. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    I would like to see some Rey Skywalker adventures but not a proper STST Episode 10 bombast, I just wanna see what she does in the immediate aftermath and some small scale jedi at large adventuring. Heck i'd take a miniseries if she just spends it on jakku bossing around Unkar Plutt for 4 installments.
     
  7. K2771991

    K2771991 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2019
    No, that's there.

    The setup for a Stormtrooper revolt subplot, however, was'nt. It was just fan projection and peaple reading to much into things.

    Oh, I acknowledge that some peaple don't like the way Finn's storyline played out. It's just that I reject the assertation that their was something "wrong" with the way it did play out, becuase that's just peaple being entitled and acting like their personal desires are better and more valid then what me and others enjoyed.

    I could easily see all those things having happened. So I guess if I'm "content" with no seeing them what I'm content with is that they can easily be told in other works.

    And it seems like your just really desperate to find some way to insert a Stormtrooper rebellion plotline "between the scenes" of the films, so to each their own.

    He could be one of many, but given the available evidence I'd say he's probobly not.

    Becuase it makes zero sense for Hux, Kylo and Phasma to react the way the did, or for Finn and Jannah to both be suprised that other defector existed, if their was a revolt sometime in the past. Nor does it makes sense that the FO, as late as TROS, would still be so confident and assured of their method of aquiring and training stormtroopers if said method did'nt work.

    I'm not comparing Finn to a droid, I'm comparing the brainwashing of the FO Stormtroopers to the core programing of the droids and their reconditioning to memory wipes, and pointing out that it would be as likely for them to break free of their indocrination as it would for a droid to break free of it's core programming - it happens, but it does'nt happen all the time.

    [​IMG]

    Thousands of years ago, a rogue Jedi had come to the understanding that the true power of the Force lay not through contemplation and passivity. Only by tapping its dark side could its true potential be gained. The Jedi Council at the time balked at this new direction. The dark Jedi was outcast, but he eventually gained followers to his new order.

    So the original Sith were Jedi, and given that it's been thousands of years, I highly doubt that Dooku was the first Jedi to fall to the Dark Side and become a Sith in that timeframe between when those original Sith left the order and the PT Era.

    Everything I've used has been strictly defined as canon.

    Not everyone, just the toxic manbabies. But either way I definantly don't think it's a majority of the fans who hate TLJ.

    Then no offense but you must have been living under a very nice rock when the PT films came out, becuase they were savaged by the haters just like the ST was; frankly I'm suprised KK was able to "kill" Star Wars when, if everyone was to be believed, Lucas already "killed" it in the early 2000s.

    I'm actually really interested in that one - it's not clear whether or not Palpatine was just giving Snoke orders or directly controlling him, and while TROS says that Palpatine created him that does'nt mean he did'nt create him from an original template - in TROK comic Snoke says something to the effect of he "was'nt born Snoke, but became Snoke" so perhaps Snoke is a clone of some other figure who went under a different name.

    Could be an excuse to introduce Lord Shadowspawn or someone like Jedgar back into canon (I'd say Kadan, but he was a dwarf and Snoke...well...obviously is'nt).
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2020
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  8. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2013
    I’m not sure exactly who you believe stated that a stormtrooper revolt was setup up in the films? Can you provide quotes if those statements are in this thread? If not, then I expect it’s a bit of a red herring.


    Of course you’d reject the assertion. I’d expect nothing less. You mentioned, in this thread or another, the continuous criticism of the ST films, and that everything is ‘negative’... but the thing is, you’re sort of part of the problem. This relentless desire you have to prove that the films are exactly how you perceive them, for everyone. And if others don’t align to that perception, they are wrong, kind of exacerbates the situation.



    Are you conceding the point or contesting it? I can’t tell..



    ‘Desperate’? Not at all. I’m simply putting forward an idea/concept that could have been used to tell a story from a different perspective, within the timeframe of the ST, that ‘could’ have provided more context to the First Order and highlight some of the internal moral challenges that the likes of Finn and Jannah faced. A perspective that was never explored in the ST, to the films detriment (IMO). That you’re splitting heirs about it only really reinforces my initial view that there is really nothing worthy, or of interest, to explore in the ST timeframe.



    That’s not the point. That those at the top of the First Order wouldn’t know if Finn was a ‘one off’ or ‘one of many’ is the point.


    So why do the First Order do nothing about the stormtroopers who’ve defected? Where’s the conversations and the ‘reactions’ in the films to show the realisation that an ex stormtrooper was responsible for the destruction of Starkiller Base? Do they have no sense of proportionality that they’d be more concerned about a (hypothetical) squad of troops breaking ranks to get home, than they would defected stormtroopers who join the resistance, infiltrate Starkiller Base and destroy it? That’s what ‘doesn’t make sense’.



    I’m not sure what the point is. Stormtroopers are human. They have the frailties of humans. Suppressed and enslaved humans, usually, have a desire to break their shackles.


    That’s about the formation of the Sith. That isn’t quite the same is it? How many Jedi have there been since their formation? How many Jedi have turned to the darkside and joined the Sith. As far as I’m aware, there is nothing to suggest that this was a common occurrence. Indeed, everything suggests it was rare. Ergo, an ‘outlier’ to use your terminology.


    If that is true then you should be able to quote by name (where referenced), all Sith that were once Jedi. Are there any more than I name checked?


    I don’t know about TLJ. I think it’s the best of the ST. But I certainly believe there’s a very large number of fans that actively dislike the ST as a whole. And to think they constitute a fringe movement, or are in a minority, seems a bit out of step with the reality.


    That you seem to label all criticisms/people the same doesn’t do the debate much favours. This thread is all about how Star Wars moves on by building off the ST, and it seems to me that pretending that there’s ‘nothing to see here’, rather than acknowledging that the ST was very contentious with fans, and that there were aspects of it they got totally wrong (to what degree depends on which side of the fence one is), seems a bit self defeating...
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2020
  9. K2771991

    K2771991 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2019
    It's not a red harring, I just apparently misunderstood what your issue was - I does seem very much like your complaining that something was left out that "should" have been in the film or was set up to be brought up later (since you specificly disputed my earlier point that the films never dangled the plot thread, which seems odd to do if you don't think the revolt was set up)

    No, not all the criticim, just the negative stuff;).

    Constructive critism is one thing, but that's different from toxic hate and also different from constant complaining for the sake of complaining - the former is what the majority of complaints online about the ST seem to be, and the latter is what peaple constantly clog up the ST threads on this forum about.

    Yup, it's my fault. I get together every other weekend with KK, Abrams, Johnson, Terrio and Chapek so we can discuss how to ruin Star Wars and margilize the "good" fans.

    You caught me. Oh no, whatever will I do?:rolleyes:

    Yeah, nice try, but that's not my position at all. I don't care if peaple agree with how I see the films and I don't care how they view them. We're all entitled to our own opinions and can feel however the way we feel - after all, it's just a movie.

    But I'm not going to stop checking peaple occasionally when I see then present their opinions as facts and try to frame the films as objectively bad or the choices made in them as "wrong" or "disrespectful" as if only they can decided that. I hate gatekeeping and I hate fan entitlement, and as a longtime Star Wars fan I hate what it's done to this fandom that I love so much.

    Neither.

    I'm not splitting hairs, I'm just pointing out that I can't reallys see a rebellion plotline, given the information we have, working.

    Could it be fit in? Sure, Star Wars has plenty of things in the past that don't really fit with the films (including things in other films - namely the PT relative to the OT) and it works to varying degrees that range from "not well" to "pretty well." All I'm saying is that - IMO - it would be hard to do in a way that makes sense and it would'nt really fit with what the films and expanded lore has told us about FO stormtroopers.

    Um yeah, they would - if it has'nt happened before he's a one off (until it happens agian), and if it has happened before he's one of many; and they act like he's the former in TFA, but not like he's one of the latter.

    You mean Jannah's group? Who knows, as far as I know that has'nt been explained - that's part of the reason I said earlier they conflict with TFA, becuase if they defected prior to that point it's super odd for them to be suprised by Finn going AWOL.

    Those conversations, in all likelyhood, happened off-screen. And IMO well they should have, since their not remotely importent to the plot of the films.

    Droids in Star Wars are'nt really that different from Humans - their sentient, they have personalities, emotions can form attachments and have friendships and are even capable of being programmed to feel pain.

    It seems very odd to think that, in the 5000+ so-odd years between the Sith being formed and Dooku falling to the Dark Side no other Jedi became Sith*, especially when we know that Jedi struggling with the Dark Side constantly is a common and widespread thing. I highly doubt it was unheard of, uncommon or even rare.

    *to say nothing of no other Jedi falling to the Dark Side in general in the even longer period of time the Jedi Order has been around.

    Dude, come on. You already tried this gotcha question and it did'nt work. I was'nt born yesterday.

    Also I did'nt say all Sith were once Jedi, I said the original Sith were once Jedi.

    A fringe movement? No - I think the toxic neckbeards are a finge movement, but that's different - but I see no evidence that would lead me to believe that the peaple who repersents the majority or even a half-percentage of the fandom; nor would I think it matter it 99 percent of the fans disliked the film, becuase I'm not 99 percent of the fans.

    And that you seem to think that's what I'm doing, when it's clearly not, does you no favors;)

    That the trilogy got anything wrong at all is a matter of opinion - and yes, I'm including myself and things I think it got wrong in that equation. In addition I don't think something becomes "contentious" just becuase some angry peaple yell about it really loudly online, becuase by that logic virtually every new thing based on something old is contentious.

    But you know what, you have a point regarding the bolded - though I doubt it was the point you were trying to make; this thread is about trying to find ways to build off the ST, and to your credit your trying to do it while I, despite getting irridated by peaple not trying to do that, am undermining you becuase I don't find what your wanting likely when I should be trying to help you. So that's on me.

    How about a stormtrooper revolt that occurs between TFA and TROS, were a force of troopers, inspired by word of Finn's actions, mutiny agianst the FO. The revolt is put down to the last man but ends up damaging the FO enough to hurt their war effort and slow down their advance, leaving Hux and like-minded peaple like Parnadee and Engell discredited and allowing Pryde to gain promince (maybe he advocates traditional recruitment methods or is the one to put down the revolt, or both, who cares). The rebels try to make contact with the Resistence but the FO manages to block their commincations at the last second, so that explains why Finn still thinks he's the only trooper to break away in TROS. That seems to work, no? - as it gives you your rebellion and fits in with what the films present in a way that I would find belivable.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2020
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  10. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2013
    No. I never asserted that a stormtrooper revolt was 'set up' or 'left dangled' in the films... so that's obviously a misunderstanding. What I was claiming was set up was Finn being a First Order stormtrooper... and that idea not being developed further, especially as Jannah then turns up in TROS (a substantial missed opportunity in my opinion). It was by far one, if not the only, interesting and 'new' things the ST had to offer (something that most fans seems to agree with i.e. a stormtrooper being a protagonist). That's a different conversation (although related) to what I would consider an interesting story (be it an anthology film or TV series) about the life/lives of stormtroopers, and the moral dilemma a character/characters could face by being on the wrong side of the conflict.

    In my experience many pro-ST fans don't like, or accept, criticism... period... be it 'constructive' or otherwise. And often, the immediate approach seems to be to object and defend regardless, because (IMO) any acknowledgement of issues/flaws is perceived as conceding the argument. And it's that which fuels the toxicity. If ST fans were happy to acknowlege and discuss issues openly/honestly, most anti-ST hyperbole would recede relatively quickly. But that position cannot be achieved in the current climate.

    This isn't about KK or Abrams. This is about toxicity in fandom. You are part of the problem, just like I am, and that poster you were referring to in the other thread. To believe it's just caused by the people you don't agree with, or whom don't agree with you, seems a bit wilfully shortsighted.

    As per above. That goes both ways.


    So if it's 'Sure. It could be fit in', regardless of the relative merits, then can I suggest we don't continue to waste oxygen arguing why it could or couldn't work? I'm not particularly bothered one way or the other, it's not like Lucasfilm are listening to our ideas.

    I'm not sure how the First Order would possibly know that there were not other stormtroopers feeling similar to Finn and Jannah i.e. morally conflicted, ready to go AWOL, ready to join the resistance and bring down the First Order? That rationale is not there in the films... especially if we assume Jannah's defection occurs after TFA (as they would have mentioned her in TFA when discussing Finn right?)

    So by that logic it could be argued, or at least written to make it work, that Jannah and her group were perhaps encouraged to desert because they'd heard rumours of a stormtrooper who'd defected and had helped destroy Starkiller base? I've just pulled this from the script... I don't know if this dialogue is in the film...

    FINN: I never knew there were more.

    JANNAH: Deserters? All of us here were stormtroopers. We mutinied at the Battle of Ansett Island. They told us to fire on civilians. We wouldn’t do it. We laid our weapons down.

    FINN: All of you?

    JANNAH: The whole company.


    It's worth noting that the First Order still seem to be using stormtroopers in TROS, despite there being a 'mutiny'. Funny that... ;)

    If you can countenance Jannah's 'mutiny' being discussed 'off screen', that pretty much opens the doors for any stormtrooper revolt being discussed 'off screen'. :)

    What's the point though? You were making a comparison between droids and First Order troops. So if you're now making a case that droids aren't that different from humans, then you also seem to be weakening your original claim that First Order troops were more like automatons than humans???

    It might be odd, and they may make other Star Wars content that shows Jedi turned to Sith as regularly as one changes underwear, but until then, it's only supposition. My interpretation of the existing material was that is was not commonplace for Jedi to turn Sith. I also think a multitude of Jedi turning Sith makes the concept pedestrian.

    It wasn't a 'gotcha' question. I'm confident about what I've read prior to TFA, but since Lucasfilm was sold to Disney, I have not read any ancillary material (apart from the Dooku novel). I genuinely don't know if the Tarkin or Ahsoka books name other Jedi that became Sith...

    Nor have I seen any evidence to suggest that a majority of fans are pro ST. At best I'd say it's split.

    Well yes. I'm less bothered about the detail than I am about a concept that can be explored. As per above post re. Jannah... and me revisiting the TROS script, I believe a stormtrooper revolt can easily be worked into the ST timeline.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2020
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  11. K2771991

    K2771991 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2019
    Not even close. You can’t pass off pointless plot points, that are dropped or not developed, as being the fault of the audience. That excuse could literally be used to refute any critique of any film.

    I’m sorry, but it’s not a very strong argument to make I.e. that the notion of a stormtrooper insurgence/uprising would be better suited to the PT or OT, when literally the only stormtroopers we’ve seem in films ever question their actions or question who they are serving, are in the ST. You don’t have to like the idea, but it’s something that the ST itself dangles as a thread.


    [face_thinking]

    If nothing was set up, then the films did'nt do anything "wrong" with not persuing a hypothetical storyline. Finn being a stormtrooperwas a personal storyline about him breaking free and becoming his own person, as well as a way to show he was unique and "different" from the others - that was the point of making him a FO trooper.

    Well, your experience is wrong. Most of us have no issue with criticism so long as it's fair and construction - heck, plenty of have our own criticism we level at the francise.

    Yeah, we're the toxic ones:rolleyes:. Not the peaple making death threats, racist comments and harrasing actors and directors on social media. It's us, the peaple who like the movie, becuase we have the sheer temerity to...like a film.

    Funny, becuase despite the fact that I and plenty of other peaple who think the ST is overall pretty great are fine with doing just that (including doing so ourselves), peaple still bash the movies constantly and treat them as if their the worst thing since Satan rebelled agianst god.

    Yeah, no I'm not. I'm not one of the peaple making death threats, driving actors of twitter and gatekeeping the fandom.

    I don't think you understand what "toxicity in the fandom" means.

    I don't think the toxicity is cuased by peaple who don't agree with me. The majority of the peaple who don't agree with my take on the ST or like the trilogy are not toxic peaple and I don't have an issue with it.

    No, it does'nt. But nice try with a "very fine people on both sides" false equivlience.

    There is no "both ways" between regular peaple, be it peaple that like the ST, dislike the ST or simply don't care, and the toxic element of the fandom who exist just to spread hate and bile.

    I doubt it, since Jannah and her group thought they were the only ones until they met Finn.

    Assuming it occured between the second and third film at a time when the FO was at war it fits much better then a large revolt prior to TFA, mainly due to the conversation that follows Finn's defection in that first movie.

    IMO it depends on the size, the consqences of it and when it occured.

    No I was'nt. I was making a comparison between the droids programming/memory wipes and the FO's indocrination/reconditioning, and saying it would be as likely for a FO Stormtrooper to go break free of that indocrination as it would for a droid to overcome their programming - in both cases it can occur, but it's rare.

    Agree to disagree. I just think the peaple who hate it yell really loudly and the peaple who like it or are just fine with it just don't care. That's the way it is online for a lot of things, so by your logic virtually everything new is either hated by the majority of its fans or half of them.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2020
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  12. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2013
    Your'e purposely attempting to conflate two distinct and separate points...
    For transparency, let's quote the posts that the above was in direct response to:

    K2271991
    "Everyone in the FO was shocked that Finn abandoned them and Finn himself was shocked that Jannah and the others existed. So yes, it's clearly an insignificant issue. On top of the vast majority of the troopers we are shown seem both perfectly happy with their jobs and show nothing but contempt for Finn for defecting, so that supports it as well - in TFA it's indicated that non-conformity is an issue that appears from time to time, but it's treated as something that's easily dealt with.".

    Darth PJ
    "I think you're actually highlighting the woeful writing and characterisation of the ST (IMO). That Finn and Jannah are stormtroopers that went AWOL, but that those plot points/threads don't go anywhere, and are not developed in any meaningful way, makes their characterisation really poor. What was their point of being stormtroopers, other than as a plot convenience to have FO knowledge? All I'm doing is suggesting a story set within the ST timeline that could better contexualise/develop the films (certainly an element that had potential but didn't go anywhere). In my opinion, it's an opportunity to show something not previously done in Star Wars. But it's obviously all hypothetical anyway".

    --------------------------
    That you attempt to purposely conflate the two underlines the point I was making earlier re. current fandom. That you continue to defend your position, that an anthology story re. a stormtrooper revolt wouldn't work because it would only create plot holes/continuity issues, even though I've quoted direct dialogue from TROS showing that Jannah herself was in fact part of a stormtrooper mutiny, that happened within the ST timeline, demonstrates that you appear to be much more interested in contesting the person posting (i.e. someone who doesn't like the ST) than the ideas or the points that are being raised per se.


    Of course you'd say that.

    I don't think it's a good look to equate those that voice their issues with the ST with those making death threats and racist comments.

    You have to look past the hyperbole. Just as some believe they are the 'worst thing since Satan', some believe they are the best thing since an Irish single malt.

    I understand perfectly what you mean by 'toxicity', and I think that by associating (be it intentionally or unintentionally) fans who don't like the ST with racists and bigots, is kind of toxic in itself.

    So why bring it up when no one on these boards (not that I've seen) has been making death threats etc?

    Again you seem to be attempting to associate those that don't agree with you/or don't like the ST with 'hate and bile'.


    Where's your evidence for that? I read the section of the script yesterday and it could easily fit without issue. It's Finn who states "I never knew there were more", and not Jannah.

    The point is that it doesn't conflict with the ST ,or create a plot hole.

    A clone trooper would probably be a more suitable comparison then, given they have a similar function in the story.

    I'm sure there's many fans that don't like the ST, but 'don't care' enough to post on line or discuss... I'm sure it goes both ways.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2020
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  13. K2771991

    K2771991 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2019
    Oh? Am I?

    Funny that you apparently have a knowledge of my modivations that's so intimate even I don't know that's what I'm doing:rolleyes:

    Dude, I just misunderstood what you meant, that's all. Don't twist this into some conspiracy were I'm "attempting to do something" sinster or whatnot.

    I never said it would'nt work, I said that in my opinion it would be unlikely given what we've been shown and told and that in my opinion it would be hard, but not impossible, to fit in. I also made it clear that I think Jannah's mutiny to begin with potentially (depending on when it occurs) conflicts with TFA.

    I'm not defending my position, I'm stating my opinion; and I acknowledge full well that I could be proven wrong and such a future storyline would fit perfectly with no conflicts.

    [​IMG]

    Neither do I.

    And your 100 percent correct.

    Becuase the conversation drifted to it and it came up.

    Again, no I'm not - and since I've made it very clear that I'm not I'm not sure why you keep insisting that's what I'm doing.

    Your right, I just checked and she does'nt say that. However she does say this.

    JANNAH: The whole company. I don’t even know how it happened. It wasn’t a decision, really, it was like....
    FINN: An instinct. Feeling.
    JANNAH: A feeling.

    So her group did'nt have a deeper motivation for their rebellion, they just reacted in the moment (I'd argue that undermines Finn's character a bit by making what happened to him less special, but that's just me), so it's unlikely they were inspired about word of Finn's defection.

    If done certain ways your right, it (would'nt.

    Clone troopers are shown to have more free will and individuality then FO Stormtroopers.

    I'm sure it does.

    Heck, 90 percent of fans on both sides probobly simply can't be bothered to care enough either way.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2020
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  14. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2013
    You went to the trouble of quoting previous posts... without the context. I think it's fairly obvious what you were trying to do fella.


    And yet in the post you were replying to (which you didn't quote) I clearly stated this:
    "No. I never asserted that a stormtrooper revolt was 'set up' or 'left dangled' in the films... so that's obviously a misunderstanding".

    I believe I explained in bold to mitigate any 'misunderstanding'...

    I think you've gone out of your way to argue that it objectively and demonstrably 'would't work'... and by doing so facilitated a protracted conversation, about a hypothetical story, that I'm not nearly as bothered about as much as you seem to be about discounting it.

    So why even start to make those comparisons?

    That was about contention/disagreement, within current fandom, and the way it can stifle discussion. It wasn't about racists and bigots on social media etc. They exist with or without Star Wars...

    So you agree then that there is absolutely no direct correlation between those that actively dislike the ST, and whom post about its issues, and those that post racist and bigoted comments? Then we are agreed. :)

    That Jannah and co acted on 'feeling' doesn't exclude the notion that they could be influenced by other factors that could feed into parallel stories. Given that you stated that Finn and Jannah were 'outliers', it would be odd if Jannah's entire company went AWOL because they all had a 'feeling' on the same day. That 'feeling' they had was probably a cumulation of external factors, and experiences, built over time. One assumes they acted on instinct, but it's logical to believe that it was a result of other things going on... and that it had a modicum of organisation, even if ultimately spontaneous.

    But they are obedient and follow orders, as a rule,... and of course are grown/trained to respond/act in a very specific way. What sets them apart, specifically in TCWC, is they are positioned more as the 'good guys'.
     
  15. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    I'll do you one better

    [​IMG]

    [face_coffee]
     
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  16. El_Machete12

    El_Machete12 Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Oct 30, 2012
    I think post-TROS stories will happen eventually. I believe Matt Martin (of LFL Story group) said as much. Though TROS was the end of the SKYWALKER saga, that doesn't mean we won't get post TROS stories that don't involve characters from the the saga itself, like Rey, Finn, etc.

    I think the best bet is just go full blown blue sky with the post-TROS galaxy. Don't worry about whether or not the story and world-building choices made in these comics or novels or whatever would affect a potential Episode X, bc frankly we don't know if we will ever get one, and even if we did it would probably be set much longer after TROS.

    I think post-TROS stories could include:

    1) The ultimate fate of the First Order/Sith Fleet remnants. Is the war over completely after TROS, or does it go on for another year or so after (like the war does in the post-ROTJ canon)? Maybe it goes on for YEARS like the Galactic Civil War did after Endor in Legends. I imagine that'll create a lot of story telling opportunities with a scrambled together Alliance of New Republic remnants, Resistance forces, and other anti-Imperial systems teaming up to fight the good fight.

    2) A story with Lando and Jannah helping the stormtroopers who defected find their families. Maybe some of these former First Order troops have force sensitivity and join the new Jedi Order.

    3) Potential new dark side factions. I think the Sith are *fingers crossed* finally done for good, but perhaps more Knights of Ren-esque elements start to show up (hopefully with less bark and more bite), creating enemies for the NEW New Republic and the Jedi.

    4) This one is more important to me; a fractured galaxy. I think we already got the story of a Republic being formed at the very onset of a peace treaty already with the post-ROTJ canon stories. I would like to see now a Republic that has to be built from scratch, that may take years if not decades to form. In the meantime, we could have a Game of Thrones-style galaxy where various empires, republics, kingdoms, etc exist among each other either peacefully or not.

    I also think pre-TROS stories have a lot of potential to flesh out the ST-era in the same way TCW did for the PT. I've noticed in this thread a lot of people absolutely LOATHE the ST, and I doubt these kind of stories would placate the majority of them. But, as someone who thinks the ST is just...alright? With moments of genuine brilliance and moments of head scratching "what were they thinking?" decisions, I do think animated show(s), comics, and other media set during this era of Star Wars can help flesh out the world of the ST.

    1) A Kylo Ren series set in the six years before TFA. Basically have the unhinged, conquering warrior we saw at the beginning of TFA do more of that in the period between his turn to the dark side and the events of the ST. I want to see him grow more and more evil as the years go by, but also more and more conflicted. Show his obsession with hunting down the remaining Jedi and Luke, as well as conquering systems for the First Order. Flesh out his rivalry with Hux, and perhaps expand on relationships that were not present per say in the films but may have been off screen like his dynamic with Phasma, the First Order military junta, the Knights of Ren, and more.

    There is also potential to show his personality and world view a bit more. The expanded material shows hints of his interests. Stuff like his obsession with Vader (maybe he regularly visits his grave on Endor), his hatred of the New Republic political system, his interest in history (particularly dark side history now as Kylo), and more.

    2) A Snoke story. I think it is only a matter of time until we find out what exactly Snoke is. He obviously was created by Palps, but something a bit more detailed.

    3) A story about Palp's clone son. I mean seriously, there is so much potential there with someone raised to be the next Emperor in Exegol, only to show no promise in that regard, fall in love, and then escape with said love. Something engaging and tragic to be told there.
     
  17. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Something akin to the Brotherhood of Darkness is what they should have done from the very beginning.
     
  18. K2771991

    K2771991 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2019
    I qouted those posts becuase the conflicted with your later claims (the context your accusing me of intentionally leaving out) that you were not claiming what I thought you were claiming.

    Settle down, PJ, it was a misunderstanding. I was'nt trying to misrepersent your argument, I just misunderstood it.

    And since the bolded conflicts with your earlier statements (which I qouted) I was confused.

    And that's why I've said it could work, I just think it would'nt be easy to fit in?:confused:

    Heck, a page or so ago I admited I was going agianst the spirit of the thread by trying to put down your idea just becuase it did'nt fit with my perception of the setup and wrote out a whole senario for the thing you want with the intent of fostering a constructing discussion, and you just ingored it.

    Becuase I think that a large chunk of the reason peaple think the ST is so "divisive" is becuase that segment of the fandom is so loud and aggressive with their opinions online.

    That's true, they do exist with or without Star Wars. But the difference between you and me is that you think the fandom is geniunely divided, while I think the fandom is'nt any more divided then it was before this films came out and it's just that the toxic minority have been yelling so loudly and acting so aggressively that they've created the image online that such is the case.

    True, and honestly while I like Jannah as a character and I think her backstory is interesting, I don't think it really fits with the setup given prior to TROS regarding the FO stormtroopers that an entire unit would defect - prior works very much tout the idea that Finn was supposed to be unique becuase he was able to resist their brainwashing and achive the free will

    Clones have a sense of morality and a suprising strong sense of individuality that is encouraged and fostered by the atmosphere of the Grand Army, leading them to doubt - and in some cases outright question - orders they feel are wrong. FO Stormtroopers are brainwashed fanatics who are indocrinated to be firmly and unqestionably loyal to the state they serve and its ideals, without questioning why they do what they do or what their told; if the Republic had FO Stormtroopers, rather then clones, they would'nt have needed control ships to mind control them to obey Order 66, becuase they would have just done it without question.

    So a lot more sets them apart then just the clones happen to be good guys and the FO troops bad guys.

    Do we know if he was raised on Exegol? Could'nt he have been raised on Coruscant? (was it ever said when he was cloned? pre-ROTJ or post?)
     
    Iron_lord likes this.
  19. chris hayes

    chris hayes Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 13, 2012
    Once KK goes and in about 10 years or so you could potentially do episodes 10,11,12 but maybe not call them 10,11,12 but basically a Rey trilogy that follows her 10 years on from TROS where maybe she runs a Jedi academy as a mentor......
     
    Django Fett likes this.
  20. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Why would anyone but KK care to continue with this? ST was her baby. Another CEO will develop something else. Very doubtful anyone is inspired by this trilogy and characters. Maybe film-makers appreciate TLJ because Rian is so respected but otherwise KK is post-TROS's only bet and even she moved on (hence some actors saying they moved on which really means studio moved on).
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2020
  21. Django Fett

    Django Fett Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 7, 2012
    Everything about Rey from mid way through TFA seems forced to me, events and circumstances are forced to fit the narrative. It would be difficult to extend her story without treading a common path with strong female characters, making her a mother and strong matriarch to a family even if that family are Jedi youngsters feels lame to me. May be she becomes a secondary character and we follow Finn's adventures as a fledgling Jedi Knight and his young apprentice instead?
     
  22. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Why would they follow an even less popular/relevant character? At least Rey is the face of ST for better or worse. Finn not so much.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2020
  23. StarWarsFan91

    StarWarsFan91 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2008
    I get the feeling the Star Wars franchise will find more success by building a Old Republic trilogy then going for a post ST one.

    I’m not against there being a film set after the ST, but give it more then a 10 year break, let other eras shine in film before doing so.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2020
    chris hayes likes this.
  24. El_Machete12

    El_Machete12 Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Oct 30, 2012
    We don't, just assumed he was cloned and raised by the Sith Eternal on Exegol while Palps was busy ruling the Empire.

    On the other hand, he could have been cloned after Palpatine died and was just bred with enhanced aging like the Kamino clones.
     
    K2771991 likes this.
  25. K2771991

    K2771991 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2019
    Hey. I'm right here:p

    Seriously though, I know you don't like the ST, but that does'nt mean that plenty of peaple are'nt interested in were it and its characters might go - and that includes writers as well as peaple in the audience.

    No, it just means they three movies they signed on to do have been filmed and they want to move on with their careers and do new things. The actors involved with the prior to trilogies moved on after they finished with those movies and that did'nt prevent more PT and OT related stories from being written.

    [​IMG]

    Personally I'd perfer he was cloned before ROTJ (perhaps as an early, failed experiment - a sort loose canon anologue to Triclops, maybe?) becuase that gives the character more room to be used and provides an interesting potential POV for a look at Palpatine and the Imperial Court*, but that sort of conflicts with Aftermath claiming Palpatine had no living relatives as of 5 ABY (but that could easily be rectified by just having him be an unacknowledged "son").

    *it might be interesting to have the character be a sort of inverse-Mordred, were instead of being the evil illegitimate son of a good man who hungers to take his throne he's the good illegitimate child of a bad man who wants nothing to do with the power his father held.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2020
    Iron_lord likes this.