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ST How do you build off the Sequel Trilogy moving forward

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Jid123Sheeve, Jul 9, 2020.

  1. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
  2. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2013
    I'm perfectly settled thanks... I'm sat in a recliner.

    It does't conflict with my earlier statements... I thought we'd already established that...

    I think we've ascertained that it would easily fit in, given that we have a stormtrooper who was part of a mutiny in TROS. It would only need developing. And given the nature of Jannah's story... heck, it's almost 'oven ready' (as a cretinous British politician is in the habit of saying).

    C'mon K2... we both know that if you were that intent on fostering a constructive discussion, you'd probably just have dropped it.

    At least 50% of the hyperbole, 'loudness' and contrary game playing I see is from fans trying to defend the ST. In terms of 'aggressive' posts, again I'd say it's a mix.

    So you're stating that you believe fandom IS divided but no more divided than it was before the ST? That very well may be the case... and I don't see anything to invalidate that view, but it's still divided nonetheless, and the ST certainly hasn't done anything to mend any division. It seems to have exacerbated it and entrenched it.

    But we've already established... and the films have as well... that Finn isn't unique. TROS establishes that there are more stormtroopers who feel like he does... and more importantly, who are shown to act upon those feelings and rebel/mutiny.

    And yet, within the actual films, we are presented with FO Stormtroopers that disobey/desert, and Clonetroopers that follow their orders to the letter. So I don't think there's a hard rule around this, as the films/shows etc. seem to utilise the troopers for whatever best fits. As it stands, I certainly believe Clontroopers are much more interesting in how they are depicted. I don't know... maybe they could develop a show/film that explores the life/lives, the moral dilemmas of a First Order Stormtrooper? Oh wait... ;)
     
  3. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    So Pomo thinks something involving Jannah and Lando.
     
  4. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    Most likley with Lando and Jannah and maybe a Rey cameo.
     
  5. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    So the scoop is that Donald Glover returns as Lando in a D+ series. I remember this rumor from before. Grace Randolph also reported well before Kessel Run.

    So Manabyte scoop that "one of the most [popular ST characters returns" and therefore ST can't be de-canonized cause "return wouldn't be possible without ST" is a big cheat. Lando is not a ST character. Yes, he's in ST too and yes he's popular but calling him a ST character is a massive stretch. Unless Manabyte meant a different scoop but doubtful.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2020
    Alliyah Skywalker likes this.
  6. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018


    Lando and Jannah's advendtures looking for lost boys and girls.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2020
  7. Alliyah Skywalker

    Alliyah Skywalker Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2017
    So would they put aging make-up on Donald Glover? That would be odd. The point of having Glover is young Lando. But young Lando and adult Jannah don"t exist in the same timeframe.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2020
  8. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
     
    K2771991 likes this.
  9. Alliyah Skywalker

    Alliyah Skywalker Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2017
    Billy D. coming back for a show? I could only see it in a very limited role. Unless we're talking animation.
     
  10. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    He'll probaly be in a mentor role to Jannah, with limited role as an older gentleman.
     
  11. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Sorry I'm lost. How does Jannah fit in Young Lando series? Or is BDW supposed to return in another series (the Jannah one)? I'm so confused. How many series with Lando are there lol?

    NM, found this:

     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2020
    K2771991 likes this.
  12. reyvision

    reyvision Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2017
    Maybe young Lando appears in someone else's series - Cassian (example). And older Lando and Jannah get their own series.

    Lots of possibilities.
     
  13. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    KK said at the Solo premiere ( I think, then or earlier) that she would love a Lando movie with DG. So it seems to me that they did the same thing like with Obi Wan. Movie replaced with a streaming show.
     
  14. sian1965

    sian1965 Jedi Padawan star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2020
    It's funny but SW is a bit depressing these days isn't it?
    The Obi Wan and Cassian series both feature principal characters who come to an end. The last film in the Skywalker saga ends with them all dead.
    I used to see it as wonderful escapism.
    Sign of the times I guess.
     
    ChildOfWinds and christophero30 like this.
  15. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    You can look at it that way or you can wonder how poopy surviving characters must be if all the shows are about the dead ones or close to it. [face_tee_hee]
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2020
  16. Alliyah Skywalker

    Alliyah Skywalker Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2017
    And they better not do anymore "showrunner out/changed" and "so-and-so is postponed (or not going forward)". Once or twice maybe expected with any kind of "cinematic universe", which they are still obviously trying to build, but just about every project?

    I guess animated projects are less vulnerable to such issues but the ones they have created on their own so far have left no mark whatsoever.
     
  17. reyvision

    reyvision Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2017
    At least Lando is alive and if Jannah is his daughter, that makes her a legacy child. Jannah has potential to be a great character.
     
  18. K2771991

    K2771991 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2019
    Those shows are being made becuase those characters are popular and peaple want more of them, not becuase they died, lol.

    At the OT ended with all the PT heroes dead.

    Everyone dies eventually. That's not depressing, it's life.

    [​IMG]

    Or you can look at it and be excited for more works featuring those characters and wonder were future stories featuring the so-called "poopy" characters will take them;)

    We have now, but then it just looked like (to me) that you either forgot what you wrote or were lying. I understand your position now, but at time I posted those qoutes it very much looked like you were just contridicting yourself.

    No, you've ascertained that. I disgree, and think that, while it could be fit in (well even) it would take work, only work if placed in a certain area and would run the risk of contridicting established lore if done wrong.

    :rolleyes:

    I tried to move on a page ago by thinking up that scenario, hoping (foolishly, it seems) that you'd ebrace it and maybe add to it or post your own scenario in return so we could act in the spirit of this thread and build ideas for were to go with the ST. Instead you just brushed it aside and zeroed in on the other comments I made.

    And PJ, it's really annoying how you keep acting like you factually and intimatly know my motivations for my posts and keep trying to attach sinister attitudes to them, so please, stop it.

    Then you must live in an alternate reality, becuase as far as I can see the toxic half of the fanbase has been shouting itself horse with zero content twitter and blog posts and long-as-sin ranty youtube videos since before TFA even came out, while the rest of us just go about with our daily lives.

    I don't know if I'd say we were really divided to begin with, per say, but the negative element of the fanbase was already their.

    The problem is that TROS conflicts to a degree with a lot of the works previously made (film and otherwise) about Finn. His free will and ability to defect was originally something that made him unique, with all other FO stormtroopers we met before Jannah and her group being willfully obedient fanatics - for instance in Before the Awakening Finn sees the very obvious suffering of some alien miners but the other troopers with him are totally blind to it, despite the fact that the reality is undeniable - that's how brainwashed these peaple are supposed to be, so IMO breaking the brainwashing should be a big deal and not something that should be widespread or common.

    This comes back to an earlier point in this discussion, and that is that FO Stormtroopers would not have moral dilemmas - the vast majority of them are brainwashed fanatics who follow their orders without question and have no issue doing horrible things, so a show about FO Stormtroopers serving the FO would'nt really work. Defectors who overcome their brainwashing would work if done right, but loyal troops serving the regime simply would'nt work given how they've been established, unless one wanted to make what amounted to pro-facist propaganda.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2020
    Iron_lord likes this.
  19. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    No thanks. 3 movies were quite enough. [face_cowboy]
     
  20. Hernalt

    Hernalt Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2000
    A trilogy about young Holdo.
     
  21. K2771991

    K2771991 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2019
    Then you go sit what comes next out, more power to ya; that's more room in the theater for me and other peaple who actually enjoy the films, and less chance of books, comics and games being sold out when I go to buy them;)

    See, everyones happy[:D]
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2020
  22. sian1965

    sian1965 Jedi Padawan star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2020
    But despite it's sad storyline the PT ended on a note of hope - we see Baby Luke gazing at the sunrise knowing that twenty five years later he'll redeem his father and Anakin will destroy the Emperor.

    The ST ends with all the Skywalkers and Solos dead and Palpatine's granddaughter standing in their place.
    And as someone who has lost too many loved ones in real life lately, to see the franchise that always provided a much needed source of escapism reduced to such nihilistic ****.....well, words finally fail me.
     
  23. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2013
    I think you'd 'hoped' I was contradicting myself, because that would have bolstered your argument rather than weakened it. But as you've corrected yourself, it was your misunderstanding not mine.:)

    We've established that during the existing ST timeline, that:

    1) Finn deserted the First Order and aided the resistance blowing up SKB
    2) Jannah and her squad/platoon of stormtroopers were involved in a mutiny, and later aided the resistance in destroying the First Order.

    That Finn was not the only stormtrooper to go AWOL (as depicted in the actual films themselves), demonstrates that he wasn't unique. There is absolutely nothing in the ST that would conflict with an anthology story of a stormtrooper revolt/mutiny/escape (call it what you will)... indeed, TROS supports the concept, given we have mutineer stormtroopers in the actual films.

    Then why make the other comments within the same post? Did I not have a right to reply to them?

    What makes you say that? My perception may be inaccurate, but it's a perception based off your behaviour and responses.

    Why would you think I live in an 'alternate reality' just because my perception/experience is different from yours? That kind of goes back to the root of some of those current issues in fandom i.e. you can't conceive of a situation where the rest of the world doesn't share your experiences and opinion... anyone with a different view lives in an alternate reality. It's evident in the language you use and the words you choose.

    You don't have to convince me that the ST has a tendency to contradict itself... and I can't really comment on anything but the films, as that is my source of ST information. However, state sanctioned military are all 'coded' and 'programmed' to varying degrees... and, one would assume, would be prone to questioning orders etc. if they were getting alternative views/information. I'm assuming that FO troops aren't chipped like clonetroopers, and to a large degree, have 'free will', but don't exercise it because they are trained to believe they are on the 'right side'. I guess Finn, Jannah et al have experiences that make them question if they are on the 'right side'???

    I have no interest in a story about stormtroopers just doing their day to day job of going around killing women and children. Is that what you thought I was suggesting??? I thought I'd been relatively clear in stating that a stormtrooper revolt was the concept I was imagining? The USP (from a Star Wars perspective) would be in seeing stormtroopers, or other, witness events/situations that make them question their orders/actions... and then for them to do something about it. That would be where any drama would be derived from.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2020
  24. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    I sat TROS out so the boxoffice went down. Apparently I wasn't the only one sitting it out. And I wouldn't be the only one sitting out movies with ST characters but it seems that DLF knows that already or otherwise ST actors wouldn't be so salty every chance they get. [face_tee_hee]
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2020
  25. K2771991

    K2771991 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2019
    The ST ends with all the Skywalkers and Solos dead and Palpatine's granddaughter standing in their place.[/QUOTE]

    One could view the PT and ST ending that way, but one could also view them differently - for instance while you see the ST ending in a negative light I - and many others - see it differently; I see it hopeful on the same level as ROTS, except that it's Rey looking towards the future with confidence, peace and purpose, rather then Owen and Beru looking towards it with unsure, fearful apprension.

    And Luke, Leia and Ben are'nt gone - they died physical deaths, but their still alive within the Force and I can say with a fair degree of confidence that they will make apperences in future works. So there not dead in the way that actually matters - heck, even Han is'nt truly gone, since Rebels indicated that non-Force sensitives also achive a degree of oneness with the Force.
    [​IMG]

    But that you see it as nihilistic is relative to your own perspective. I certainly don't share that view - indeed, I found one TROS sufficantly escapist (the first half, at least). Heck, that you think the nihilistic take is bad is itself a matter of perspective; one of my favorite Star Wars outings is KOTOR 2, a game with a fairly grimdark setting that's invokes themes similer to those that TLJ was accused of "nihilist" for highlighting.

    Surely this francise is large enough for both escapism and nihilism? Can we not have a bit of variety? Remember, we have a fanbase that's fairly diverse in tastes, so should'nt the francise try to have something for everyone?

    We have a different perspective on this, PJ. Your a film guy who does'nt think anything beyond them matters, while I think the films are just a small part of a much later tapestry. So while your points make sense when only taking into account film evidence, to me they discount key information and logic from elsewhere, and that is that the FO Stormtrooper's contitioning is apparently total, consuming and not at all easy to break, so understand that when viewing things from my perspective and using my logic Finn and Jannah have to be outliers in order to fit in with what has been established.

    Of course you do. As for why I made them, though, that's becuase we were having a conversation and I'm not the kind of person to just ingore your responses and drop things unannouced.

    If you think that then you have'nt been paying attention to my behaviour and responses;)

    I was being somewhat sarcastic, but to speak plainly the idea of that peaple who like the ST are in any way comparable to the blind haters (or even the resonable peaple who hate the films) is honestly so absurd to me that one would almost have to live in a different world to see it that way - ST hate - like PT hate before it and any other such hatred for new things in any other fandom - is virtulant and toxic, and has sprouted a cottage industry in and off itself on places like Youtube and Reddit. I have not, in all my experiences, ever seen anything remotely comparable from the sane elements of the fandom, be it the peaple who like the ST or the peaple who don't.

    Wrong. I can, quite easily in fact. I disagree with a plenty of peaple here - quite firmly in a lot of cases - but I can easily understand and accept that they don't share my experiences and opinions.

    If it's "evident" then why have you gotten your perception of what I think so immensly wrong?

    Anyone paying even the remotest attention to my posts should be able to see, quite clearly, that while I can be quite stubborn, set in my ways and dismissive of the validity of certain concepts that other peaple veiw as fact becuase I don't see any evidence of them (Reylo, Rey being a sexist character, Finn's storyline being wasted, ect) I always make it clear that everyone is entitled to their opinion and that my opinion is no more, or no less, valid then any others. I rarely argue something as fact unless I'm resonable confident that it is.

    FO Stormtroopers are taken at birth and raised by an omipresent, all-controling entity in accordance with a program specially designed to ensure total obedience and stifle free will, to the point were they are even denied names, and FO controls and manipulates all the information they (and its other citizens) are exposed to. What they are put through goes well beyond the vague concept of coding and programming that regular soldiers do. I think your underestimating the sheer level, degree and totality to which the existing lore tells us they were contitioned.

    Presumably with Jannah, though Finn is established by stuff prior TFA to having always felt that what he was being told to do was wrong without any big reason to belive it. I suppose this could be the case for Jannah and her group as well, but IMO it conflicts with what was set up prior to that (at least in spirit) and (agian IMO) makes Finn feel less "special" - especially since a big part of prior works was that him being able to do what he did in TFA was apparently sign of uniquness on his part (I.E he was the exception, rather then the rule)

    I actually thought you were suggesting two different possibilities for a story - one about Stormtroopers defecting and the other about Stormtroopers serving the FO but having to rationalize their orders and facing moral dilemmas.

    Which neither bothers me nor effects me in a negative way.

    It's more likely their salty becuase of the four-plus years of abuse and harsment they got from a certain inordinantly agressive and abusive segment of "fans" - you know, the ones who have been making their lives hell since before the first film even came out and giving the rest of us a bad name? Becuase IMO it's unlikly it's becuase their upset over the possibility of them being somehow blocked from not getting to do more hypthetical Star Wars films becuase A) they only signed on to do three and B) they are all fairly or incredibly talented actors whose world is their oyster right now.