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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST How do you build off the Sequel Trilogy moving forward

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Jid123Sheeve, Jul 9, 2020.

  1. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
  2. sian1965

    sian1965 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2020
    They were trying to make Ben Solo fans think he was coming back, so they could pull the rug out from under us, but sorry to disappoint you DLF - every Ben Solo fan I know, including myself, didn't believe it for a moment.
    Enjoy your childish games.
     
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  3. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    LOL, coping is strong re: Ford, etc. OT characters were pop culture icons which ST characters are not. Harrison Ford was a bone fide movie star which John Boyega isn't and won't be simply because star system of old is dead. The star is the brand. All stars (actors whose name puts butts in seats) that we still have are relics of past era when star system was still on. Leo, Denzel, The Rock, Will Smith, Tom Cruise are over 40 and 50. They were stars in 80s and 90s already. They are not the product of the aughts let alone last decade. That;s when franchise/brand became the star.

    I don't doubt that there will be returns in the future cause that's the fastest way to become relevant again. It just may not be how fans hope or how the actors hope. when you need the franchise more than it needs you, you agree to anything. Just look at OT cast. Those returns sure didn't turn out great.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2020
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  4. K2771991

    K2771991 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2019
    [​IMG]

    And?

    I don't see what fame or status as pop culture icons has to do with it; the point is they said they were done with the francise and yet, with time, they changed their mind.

    And Boyaga's an excellent actor. I'm not sure what "the star system of old" is (it's definantly not "the brand is the star" though becuase peaple are perfectly capable of being famous and suceeding still) but there's no reason he can't suceed.

    Why assume they would want to return to become relevent once more (heck, why assume they would not be relevent) as opposed to just returning because they wanted to? That's what happened with Hamill and Ford (and McGregor now as well with the Kenobi show), and while Fisher and Billy Dee where'nt exactly relevent any longer when they came back the certainly did'nt agree to return with the intent of once more becoming relevent.

    To you maybe. My only regret for their returns was Fisher's death precluding a bigger ending for Leia, but that's not the films fault and I still think Leia had a great ending. Same as Han and Luke.

    Shocking, I know.

    I highly doubt that's what they were doing, sian.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2020
  5. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Because when actors return to something, especially after they were firm they wouldn't, it's always because of the amount of money offered and chance to revive their careers. It's nothing new.
     
  6. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Force Ghost star 7

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    Jan 15, 2018
    Ford seems to have great career same with Ewan. I see Driver in same boat as them.
     
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  7. K2771991

    K2771991 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Dec 21, 2019
    The only returning old Star Wars actor who that really applies to is Ford, and that's just becuase he's almost eighty years old and perfers to spend his days smoking pot, crashing planes and chilling in Rural Wyoming with Ally McBeal, so if your gonna get him to come out of his semi-retirment you'd best make it worth his time. Even then if he had'nt wanted to the do the ST trilogy then I'm confident no amount of money would have been able to bestire him from his slumber.

    Hamill did'nt need his career revived and both he and Fisher's have/had long since embraced their roles in Star Wars with open arms, while Billy Dee loves Lando so much he'll play him any chance he gets in any medium no matter how small and dumb. McGregor also hardly needs a career revival. I doubt any of them were wanting for money, either.

    Sometimes actors just return becuase they want to revist an old role that they love. Happens all the time...
    [​IMG]
     
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  8. PendragonM

    PendragonM Force Ghost star 4

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    Mar 7, 2018
    Yeah, so, Carrie came back first, Harrison came back second - Mark was the last one and he thought he'd get a pass because he thought Harrison would never come back. So, we could try that again. They all came back for Lucas - he signed them before he sold to Disney.
     
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  9. K2771991

    K2771991 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Dec 21, 2019
    I don't see what the order of their return matters. They came back becuase they wanted to, not becuase they needed to.

    Assuming that's true they all stayed after Disney took over (a thing they had to know was going to happen), so clearly it goes beyond GL.
     
  10. PendragonM

    PendragonM Force Ghost star 4

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    Mar 7, 2018
    Or they had a contract and were announced as being back and then knew that fans would rip them apart for not coming back....
     
  11. K2771991

    K2771991 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Dec 21, 2019
    If it was only Lucas they returned for they did'nt need to sign any contract with Disney.
     
  12. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Two reminders:
    • Everyone keep things friendly and constructive in here; we don't need endlessly ongoing back-and-forth arguments.
    • To be on topic in this forum, points in this thread have to relate to the ST. Yes, the thread title says "moving forward", but it's still "build off of the ST moving forward." So to simply discuss news or rumors about potential new movies, use the Future Films forum. And for news or rumors about new TV series on Disney+, use the SW TV forum. Thanks.
     
  13. ScreamingWoman2019

    ScreamingWoman2019 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2018
    What about objects? In the ST we have, for example: Vader's helmet, Anakin's saber, those dice, Han's medal. Etc. Vader's helmet was destroyed, I suppose. Chewie got Han's medal.

    This guy has already been mentioned in 'Solo', and other places. 'Appearances', here:
    https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Dok-Ondar's_Den_of_Antiquities
    Also, same wiki:
    The dice have not reappeared, like Ben Solo.

    Also, what about Luke's medal? Will it play a part? This is from the Force Collector novel:
    There are a couple of things here...it's not Han's style. So maybe he was not aware, and he would not cheat in such a fashion. And yet, it was Luke's medal. Maybe there was another hand involved. Who was the tricky bastard? That a strong word within the context of SW. It means:
    but also
    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bastard#English
    Snoke calls Kylo cur, that is mongrel.

    There's been another object-vision guy like Karr already, or so it seems, in the comics
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Who slaughtered the students? It wasn't Ben.
    Maybe Luke was 'seduced' too, and when the saber came back to him...'not again'.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Pablo Hidalgo (tweet): 'Luke's goal was proving his father was redeemable. Rebuilding the Jedi order was someone else's plan for him'.
    Visions are chaotic, and so was Kylo's when he touched Rey's hand: filthy junk traders/sold you off for drinking money/buried in a pauper's grave. That's been left unexplained or unshown.
    Maz and Han, and Luke's medal. Luke being unaware; and probably Han. A bar tab. There was drinking money involved, and also the vision+drinking money elements in this novel.

    And a tricky bastard. RJ compared Luke to middle-age Arthur once, and bastard would mean Mordred or Mordred/Morgan le Fay. (That Sollony Ren from the DoTF final draft had a familiar name...Sollony Ren, Ben Solo, Rey Solana)

    Snoke had trained (=had been killed by) at least one other apprentice (official info), and the implications seems to be 'before Kylo'. The PT were the films with Owen, Anakin's step-brother in them and also Cliegg, the father he never had.

    I mean, the idea behind this would be backwards-as-forwards and viceversa. I guess the ST prequels (post-ROTJ/pre-TFA) will be made a part of the post-TROS stories via objects and visions and so on. As if 1999-2005 had been made a part of 2015-19.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2020
  14. obi-arin-kenobi

    obi-arin-kenobi Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2005
    Disney will (if this trilogy sticks) :

    -focus on 500 years prior(or whatever that time frame is that they brought up).

    -they will create 3 to 9 films with all new heroes but these will include "prophecies" connecting it to the films already out.

    -in 15 to 20 years, maybe less since its Disney, they will return to Rey where she gives the next virgin birth.
     
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  15. K2771991

    K2771991 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Dec 21, 2019
    I'm resonable sure their still on the Falcon. Why would'nt they be?

    And cheating on a bar tab with a medal he did'nt care about is exactly the kind of thing Han would do, lol. The guys a cheap scumbag.

    I don't think that scene was meant to repersent the students being killed - maybe when TFA was made it was, but it definantly was'nt after TLJ and it's not even possible after what the ROKR comic showed us.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2020
  16. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2013
    But that's on the films, and how they were written, and not my interpretation of them. It was always an explicit understanding amongst fandom that, in terms of canon, the films took precedence. I know that this will change somewhat given the amount of TV content we'll be getting... but if there's a contradiction between a film/TV show or book/comic/game, the film/TV shows win out... otherwise we'll all have to start accepting that uncle Owen was Obi-Wan's brother etc. etc. I'm not automatically discounting other ancillary material, I just believe that films/TV shows take priority over any continuity issues that are created by comics/books.


    No. I just don't think it holds much water given what's presented in the films. And as you yourself have admitted, the films kind of contradict whatever other content that you're using to base your perception of 'lore' on.

    Finn can still be the exception rather than the rule... as is Jannah, but they are not unique... and that obviously allows for others to feel/act the same way. Fletcher Christian was not the only British officer to defy the command structure... it happened with other crews, but it was still not a common occurrence in the British Navy.

    Nope. One would assume it would be the moral dilemma (as Finn and Jannah encountered) that would lead them into open revolt/defection. It's possible to have a story that's focused on the 'antagonists' (or at least a group that aren't the heroes), that gives more context to how they operate, but for the story to have a moral centre. I'm reminded of Spartacus (obviously), Paths of Glory, Mutiny on the Bounty, Platoon, Battleship Potemkin etc.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2020
  17. sian1965

    sian1965 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2020
    Driver actually enjoyed playing Kylo, I think he would have liked playing more of Ben Solo perhaps with dialogue this time but after he was essentially shoved out of the way at the last minute so it could make the Great Balance look omnipotent - wow, not even Luke, Yoda or Anakin could defeat the Emperor on their own - I wouldn't blame him one bit if he never wanted anything to do with Disney again.
     
  18. Samuel Vimes

    Samuel Vimes Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    RE: FO troopers defecting or breaking programming.

    I think that TFA sets up that such things can happen regardless of Finn.

    Consider;
    The FO are on the lookout for signs of non-conformity.
    So that clearly implies that such things has happened in the past.
    So they are aware of the risk of their soldiers not following orders or doing things they are not supposed to.
    Also they have reconditioning, means to get their troopers back on the program.

    Also, Phasma get on Finn's case pretty quickly once he is back, she orders that he hand in his blaster for inspection and that he report to her.

    In all, it paints a picture that the FO higher ups are aware that their conditioning is not fool-proof and some troopers can break it.
    Hence they are on the lookout for such instances and have plans to deal with such things.

    Also, Finn was very scared when he got back, I think he figured that his commanders were onto to him, that if they dug deeper they would know what he did, or rather didn't do. And the consequences of that seemed to terrify him.
    Possibly he feared that he would get executed, suggesting that this is what happens to troopers that disobey orders.
    Or reconditioning is really bad.

    So based just on TFA, I think that a plot line of other FO troopers breaking away was a possible aveny for how the story would go.
    I don't think it said that a massive revolt had happened or set up that such a revolt must happen, but that it raised the possibility of such a thing. And that Finn might play a part in it. He would know where FO troopers are taken to be trained and "conditioned" and could then suggest that the NR/Resistance target those worlds. To get those children/teenagers before the FO has fully "conditioned" them.

    Bye for now.
    Old Stoneface
     
  19. ScreamingWoman2019

    ScreamingWoman2019 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2018
    @K2771991, you say:
    That guy may or may not be a student; the chronology is not clear, and is not supposed to be.

    But that bit was added to the 2015 vision in Sep.2017. This was 3 months before TLJ was released and 3 months before the audience knowing about Snoke's 'one other apprentice', who sounds like a previous apprentice. JJ was already writing IX.

    The Kylo comic expanded upon the TLJ perspectivization -Kylo and Luke versions of what happened that night- and gave the adicional info about Kylo not slaughtering those students and not destroying the temple. Who was, then? In the comic, this hooded person was there in Rey's vision, and related to the lightsaber himself.Why was Rey supposed to see that part? The saber, Luke, Kylo, Rey's little self, Unkar even, all of them having to do with Rey, more or less remotely. So, what about this person?
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2020
  20. JohnWilliamsSonoma

    JohnWilliamsSonoma Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 7, 2003
    I do not acknowledge that comic. Retconning Kylo’s villainy ha


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  21. K2771991

    K2771991 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2019
    Current canon policy is that all works hold equal status to each other. They changed the policy when Disney took over and they discared the old EU.

    Which is why I'm wary of what your suggesting - all content should stay in line and consistent with each other, and IMO a large-scale FO trooper revolt is inconsistent with what we've been told about them.

    Fletcher Christian was not a brainwashed drone indocrinated to be blindly and totally loyal to an all-controlling enity. We have no real-world analogies to FO Stormtroopers, and the closest analogies to them in SW are either Clone Troopers with their chips active or battle droids.

    And the point was Finn was, pre-TROS, implied to have been unique. He's not anymore, but he was originally presented as such.

    Anyway PJ, we're not going to agree, we're going around in circles and we've already been warned to keep it on topic, so less move on. I tried to work with you and write out a plot idea for a trooper revolt that was consistent with what we've been told in the films and elsewhere, but you clearly were not intrested in constructive brainstorming, so there's really nothing to gain here for us anyway.

    Rey did'nt either; she needed help from not only Ben, but from the ghosts of Luke, Yoda, Anakin and virtually every other named character, to overcome him - think about that; Yoda and Windu can stalemate Palpatine on their own, but Rey would never had been able to defeat him without their "more powerful then you can possibly imagine" ghost forms backing her up.

    And your assuming just becuase you hated Ben's ending that Driver did as well. For all we know he loved it.

    It implies their aware of past instances of non-conformity, not past instances of a trooper going totally AWOL. If that kind of thing was commonplace they would'nt maintain the system they use and would'nt be so confident in it.

    Anyway, like I said to PJ, we should probobly just drop this conversation.

    The comic shows the academy destroyed by a strike of energy from the sky, which is implied to be either Palpatine, Snoke or (assuming they are the same person) both - Palpatine is the most likely candidate however, as he's the only person we've seen with that kind of power.

    The hooded person is Kylo. The comic is just re-showing her vision from TFA - it's Kylo when he and the KoR are slaughting those guys in the rain, the artist just misdrew the other guy's weapon as having a lightsaber blade for some reason.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2020
  22. Jedsithor

    Jedsithor Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 1, 2005
    At this point I think it's just best to leave the ST alone. Don't build on it, don't try to create sequels or spin offs. It's there for people who enjoy it. For me the sequels are a huge wasted opportunity, I don't like them and I'm pretty content to ignore them entirely but others like them and that's fair enough but I think it's in Disney's best interest to just step away from the Skywalkers entirely and do something else. Maybe a version of KOTOR (I have an idea to turn KOTOR into a Sith origin story but that's for a different thread), maybe something in the far future of the GFFA, maybe one off stories set in different time periods.

    Looking at the old expanded universe, as important as the Skywalker saga was as the final part of the epic saga of the the Jedi vs the Sith, it's actually a relatively small story in cosmic terms, certainly compared to the centuries long wars between the Force groups and their respective political factions.

    The Skywalker Saga is like Lord of the Rings. An epic tale of heroes and villains, prophecies and destinies, good vs evil etc. But compared to what's hinted at and implied in The Silmarillion, Lord Of The Rings is actually a pretty small tale. Sauron's first attempted conquest of Middle Earth is arguably a much bigger tale (one Amazon is attempting to bring to life) and before that you have the story of Melkor/Morgoth, the tale of Numenor etc, tales that make Lord Of the Rings look like The Hobbit. I think Star Wars has similar potential in terms of its mythology and history, a version of which was explored in old EU but some of which has only been hinted at in current canon. The ancient Sith, the Mortis Gods etc.
     
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  23. K2771991

    K2771991 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Dec 21, 2019
    Well, speaking for those peaple who do enjoy it, what's wrong with allowing us to have more content set during that era and featuring those characters? If, as you say, your already content to ingore it, what does it hurt you if they expand upon it?

    Again, they can make ST era stories and do that other stuff - just as the EU was able to make post ROTJ stuff as well as a bazzilion other things.
     
  24. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2013
    But that stands for little.. as you yourself have been stating that ancillary material contradicts the ST. The only thing it achieves, if ALL material is equal, is in creating further plot holes and inconsistencies. It sounds like one thing Lucasfilm need to do, in order to clear a path beyond the ST, (IMHO) is to redefine what exactly is/isn't canon during the ST era.

    We're going around in circles... we've already established that the films show multiple stormtroopers who've defected/revolted, and are actively involved in overthrowing the First Order. Believing that this is something that could not happen because it conflicts with a comic or novel is utter folly... given it's, you know, actually in the films.

    Are you serious? No real-world analogies'? ALL military personnel are 'indoctrinated' and 'brainwashed' to a certain degree... 'for King and country' (obviously some more than others).... otherwise no one would take an order or do anything dangerous or morally dubious. And one only has to look at the set up within military/faschist/dictatorship regimes to see that the Galactic Empire and First Order are analogous.

    That's irrelevant. Before TESB, the audience didn't know that Darth Vader was Luke's father. That does't mean that Darth Vader wasn't Luke's father in ANH. It seems like you're getting a bit confused in your interpretation of 'lore' from the comics... which is a problem when you believe there're 'all equal'.

    Please don't be so disingenuous. This entire conversation was off the back of me putting forward a concept, a stormtrooper revolt, that could be used to tell an ST timeline story. That was me trying to stay on topic. Since then, other than one paragraph, you've spent literally pages being contrarian on pretty much every point (see above point about Fletcher Christian as an example). Which is why I questioned your motivations.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2020
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  25. K2771991

    K2771991 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2019
    I never said it could'nt happen, I said in my opinion it would be unlikely to happen on a large scale or in widspread numbers, and if it was dipicted in some work I believe it would require some effort to fit into the established lore in a way that makes sense.

    And anyway, PJ, let's just drop this. We're going around in circles and we've already been warned.

    Just becuase I don't share the same belief with you that it would be easy to fit into the story does'nt mean I'm being contrarian - I even apologized for being so dismissive and tried to move on and brainstorm ideas based on your concept (which I'm still willing to do), and you just pretty much ingored that and kept arguing when you could have disregarded everything else, siezed on it and moved on, so don't pin this all on me.
     
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