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Discussions How do you think EU authors would have handled Luke's death?

Discussion in 'EU Community' started by SateleNovelist11, Apr 13, 2022.

  1. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jan 10, 2015
    Do we have any information about how they were explaining to explain Luke Skywalker's demise before the Legacy comic series? Or were they planning at all?

    Personally, I would have enjoyed some novels about Jaina and Allana. It would have been interesting to see how the New Jedi Order went from its state in FOTJ to being led by Luke's descendant, Kol Skywalker, a great character who really should get some more attention. I mean, he actually wrote a detailed account about Darth Sidious to explain the complexity of his plans to the galactic populace, and he was an amazing Grand Master and fighter. While he was more powerful than some Grand Masters like Nomi Sunrider, he was not as powerful as Satele Shan, Yoda, and his ancestor, Luke. So, it would have been interesting to see more of a lead-up to Legacy during which Kol was trained, how learning about Luke impacted him, and how he became the leader of the Jedi.

    Maybe some of you could write a fan fiction about this topic. I do like Cade's interactions with Force Ghost Luke. Overall, Legacy is one of the best EU stories out there, since it's entertaining and it makes one think. I just always fond the gap between the comic series and FOTJ interesting.
     
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  2. Emperor Ferus

    Emperor Ferus Chosen One star 7

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    Jul 29, 2016
    He did not look elderly in the Legacy comics as a ghost, but he could have chose to appear that way instead of the age at which he died. There is room to wonder if he was killed- maybe shortly after Crucible.

    I think he would have kept a background role as he aged, with the authors dragging out his, Han's, and Leia's deaths for a long stretch.
     
  3. Anedon

    Anedon Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 11, 2016
    I think this is mostly a hypothetical question all things considered. Legends would have never been able to make this descision. Lucas gave a clear veto for Lukes death. I think at most he would have been okay with Luke becoming one with the force like Yoda in his very old age. I don´t think Legends could have ever killed Luke or Leia off another way.
    Maybe, big maybe, Lucas would have eventually allowed Han to die, but with Luke and Leia they were pretty much untouchable.

    Plus the publishers were so afraid of not having any of them on their covers ruining their sales they kept brining them back into spotlight time and time again, long after they had worn out their welcome.
     
  4. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jan 10, 2015
    Ah, I see. Very interesting. That makes sense. I do think it's good that it was left untold. The contrast between Cade and Luke was interesting. Cade was more analogous to his ancestor, Anakin, albeit with a few more redeeming qualities.
     
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  5. Anedon

    Anedon Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 11, 2016
    I mean Cade is a Saint compared to Anakin.
     
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  6. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jan 10, 2015
    True dat. I like all the ties to ancient Jedi and late Republic Jedi in that series. Plus, Krayt in some ways was worse than Sidious. Sidious would manipulate people to death, whereas Krayt literally wanted to control everyone. Plus, if I recall correctly, Darth Krayt and Exar Kun were the best practitioners of Niman.
     
  7. clone commander bossk

    clone commander bossk Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 5, 2019
    I don't think they ever would have actually killed luke han or leia.
     
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  8. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Luke, Han and Leia would have taken the Falcon into the Unknown Regions, Jaina, Ben and company would have heard stories/rumors, every couple of years, until they don't.
     
  9. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    @Anedon is correct. In all likelihood, Legends' writers would never have been free to handle this.

    That said, it is interesting.

    My guess? Probably old age and one with the force, Luke dying a violent death to pretty much anything or anyone would have triggered the greatest of all fan backlashes, that would have made the outrage and venom in the aftermath of Chewbacca's death look like polite disagreement in comparison.

    So assuming in an alternate reality where Legends writers had the freedom to go ahead with it, they'd have him die in his bed at 100 or something like that. The fandom would tolerate nothing else.
     
  10. Irredeemable Fanboy

    Irredeemable Fanboy Jedi Knight star 3

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    Mar 27, 2020
    I feel that the best way possible was for a "passing of the torch" death scene with Ben, be it because of a sickness, an injury, or simply of old age, a slow peaceful death much like Yoda's is fitting, regardless of what caused it.

    In that sense most people would think old age is the go-to option because Luke is so powerful and wise by this point, creating a situation where he is terminally injured to allow for such a death is really hard, because you either make Luke look weak/inconsitent with the injuries he survived thus far, or put Ben in a position where he has to face an enemy that successfully dealt such damage to Luke, be it tactically, brute force, or a combination of both, any of those options have Ben standing virtually no chance against him less you risk power creep problems (more than we already had) or making Ben excessively smarter than Luke.

    In spite of all that, Luke's death, ideally would be surrounded by Luke feeling a distant darkness that it is inevitably coming in his last moments (hinting at the One Sith, much like the Legacy Era blurb implies) and encouraging Ben to face this darkness with the best he has, as Ben is the one that will likely carry the Galaxy on his shoulders as it "grew darker", in Krayt's own words, it should be used as a motivator for a Ben-centric story direction.
     
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  11. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    One interesting point is how long would Luke live, assuming Lucas gave the go ahead?

    Would they try to keep him around until the last possible moment, and then have him die or would say Troy Denning have been eager to write his death scene as soon as the opportunity was there?

    I think they'd have had Luke live to a venerable age, and they would telegraph his death to the fans, probably for months to years ahead of time, and do everything possible to make it as respectful, and grandiose as possible.

    The calculation the writers would make here would be less "does this fit the story or theme" and more "how can we mitigate the inevitable fan outrage this will cause?"

    People would be angry regardless, but I suspect Lucasfilm, and Del Rey would do everything to minimize it by ensuring Luke died peacefully, he died old and in his bed, and his death was written in such a way as to be utterly worshipful of the character.

    I can imagine Luceno or Stover would be the best to write a Luke death book, or scene. Denning doing it would make many people very very angry. Though maybe they wouldn't care. It would definitely be handled delicately, at least in terms of how it was marketed.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2022
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  12. Anedon

    Anedon Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 11, 2016
    I suspect if they actually would have done a Luke death scene, which I kind of in doubt. It would have left his exakt age in doubt. So basically Lucas could still imagine it only being in biblical age. Or they would have done what Filoni did in regards to TROS and said that Luke´s Force Ghost showing up didn´t nessesitate he was dead, maybe it was just a force projection or something.

    Though TBF I think the Felpire alone would have seen Legacy be decanonized by now anyway...
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2022
  13. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jan 10, 2015
    The last thing I can imagine Luke doing is hiding like a coward as was depicted as doing in the ST. Now, retiring and becoming a hermit on the other hand is something I could envision. Granted, he would have had to have found a worthy successor. Perhaps Jaina or Ben. Interesting food for thought.
     
  14. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    Luke dying a coward in legends or even being portrayed in a way that could be construed as cowardly would have triggered a tsunami of fan rage that made Anakin and Chewie’s deaths look like nice disagreements in comparison.

    One thing we should note is that EU writers didn’t generally try to do this-that is enrage the fan base beyond a certain threshold. Mara’s death and Jacen’s death made people unhappy but they weren’t movie characters which would affect it by orders of magnitude.

    Luke’s death would be delicate because it could if handled badly destroy the EU. Remember people stopped reading the EU over Chewbacca dying. Imagine a poorly handled Luke death.
     
  15. Anedon

    Anedon Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 11, 2016
    I will say I think both versions of Luke kinda loose me...
    There is a lot to critize about ST Luke, but in Legends... him just deciding Jacen needs to die for an act of self defense, when he had utter faith in Vader (who mind you killed Biggs and Obi Wan, was responsible for Owen and Berus deaths and tortured Han and Leia) yet was then too cowardly to do it himself... and then later uses the threat of the Hapan military to pressure his political agendas... after kicking Tenel Ka out of the Order.
     
  16. Irredeemable Fanboy

    Irredeemable Fanboy Jedi Knight star 3

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    Mar 27, 2020
    Oh, god, no... Not the Filoni route of keeping characters alive for no reason whatsoever.

    Personally i love how he went out in TLJ, it is a fitting end for Luke, dying to protect the new hope for the Galaxy, in the most important point in the war, when there's no other hope, he was Leia's only hope, but i think a heroic death like that would not work in the established Legends timeline because the stakes can't get as high: The Galactic Alliance has to be mostly intact until Legacy, Imperial Power can't be close to control because they had to wait 100 years to even be close to that, he can't die against the latest, baddest menace, because we already know (and he knows) Krayt is hiding out there, waiting, generally it is a period that allows for conflicts, yes, but that are not the "fight to end all fights" so to speak, so him dying with a heroic sacrifice to save GA forces against an enemy like in Canon would not feel as definitive, it would feel like a waste, because there's bigger threats and a future we already know.

    The only sort of menace that would feel appropiate for Luke to sacrifice against threat-wise is a cosmic entity like Abeloth, or even crazier, the Father of Shadows, but even if that is an enemy of such a large scale it doesn't feel "irrelevant", it eclipses the future threats, and at the same time Krayt being the final villain could diminish any threat the cosmic entities might have if they are forced in this position, because we know they are not the final enemies, so building them up so much on their power level to justify Luke dying against them would feel utterly artificial.

    If it's not a willing sacrifice like in TLJ or Obi-Wan in ANH, then it goes back to the whole "mortal wounds" problem i mentioned earlIER.

    Generally it would be easier if Legacy didin't exist, but that would be a terrible world to live in ;)
     
  17. The Emotional Jedi

    The Emotional Jedi Jedi Padawan star 1

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    May 18, 2021
    In my ideal world the EU would have ended with the Union comics, or alternatively with the Young Jedi Knights series, because I personally stopped appreciating everything that comes after the New Republic Era. So in my ideal world Luke would have died peacefully at a very advanced age. Even in the real world I think Luke would have died peacefully, because I don’t think the fans would have tolerated a heroic/violent death. A violent death could have destroyed the EU's reputation.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2022
  18. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Force Ghost star 6

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    Jul 9, 2016
    @Irredeemable Fanboy
    You mean a great world since i hate those comics. They just give me bad vibes :p


    Buuuuut I do think Legacy had the right idea and Star Wars had the right idea to a point...If your gonna have Luke die a peaceful death...Then honestly ...Don't bother showing it. Just do a Star Trek TNG and jump 100 plus years in the past and focus on the next generation of people. Don't need to know how he died...Just he died and here are the new people doing new things against evils and what not.

    I mean do we HAVE to see the death of every character.
     
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  19. Anedon

    Anedon Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 11, 2016
    I actually doubt that. Han´s death in TFA didn´t tear the fanbase appart and neither did Leia´s in TROS(even if Carrie Fisher death probably was a factor with it). And even when considering TLJ people weren´t upset that Luke died as much as how he was presented before that. (And that his death felt cheap due to him not being there in person but only as a projection). I think a siutably heroic death, say at the end of NJO, with a "passing the torch" moment to the Solo kids, and then maybe appearing as a Force Ghost for a final talk with Mara and/or Leia, would have been accepted.
     
  20. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Force Ghost star 6

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    Jul 9, 2016
    I mean I think Luke death in TLJ is probably the best death he could have gotten.

    As for the fanbase...my response to that is.....to heck with the fanbase what do they know.
     
  21. Irredeemable Fanboy

    Irredeemable Fanboy Jedi Knight star 3

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    Mar 27, 2020
    Hahahhaa yeah i know you hate the series, but given it's my favorite, trading Legacy for "freedom" for the writers to escalate the stakes as they see fit post-NJO is not worth it, especially when it also depends on the fact that we should live in a world where they get rid of the "no big 3 death" rule, which is already a slim chance.

    I agree, that can also work, not every death needs to be showed, just leave it implicit, or mention it and move on, i'm thinking that in the case of the EU continuing for years after Crucible with the restriction of killing the big 3, i think they could have pulled a Legacy again but on a smaller scale: jump 20 years into the future, to 75 ABY, with an adult Ben and an older Jaina, to a point where Luke, Han and Leia are simply not around anymore, that way you avoid "killing them" per se, but you are able to continue the story.

    And yeah in a way the way Legacy showed us Ghost Luke leaves it implicit that he died peacefully.

    On a side note: i don't understand this notion of Canon Luke dying "like a coward" in TLJ, he's sacrificing himself to save people, how is that cowardice?
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2022
  22. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Force Ghost star 6

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    Jul 9, 2016
    @Irredeemable Fanboy

    Yeah jumping a few hundred years is honestly the best get out jail free card for not having to deal with Death

    Or also you know....When dealing with the kids or next generation immediate you don't HAVE to show Luke, Han and Leia....Like they are out their doing their thing but you don't have to show them like the books kinda did as a crutch. Have them be brief cameo appearances

    I mean obviously TNG eventually showed Kirk's death and it was uh....underwhelming, but for al one time we never knew what happened to Kirk. Granted that does't mean you could't show Luke's death if you wanna take a risk and have him go out in a blaze of glory or something. But for headaches sake i think the time jump is honestly the best step.


    I feel like people get so wrapped up in that 1st act of the film they kinda forget that Luke becomes the Legend Luke we all wanted by the end...that's the whole meta of the story. Luke becomes the hero from Legends we all wanted him to be...But i digress.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2022
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  23. Irredeemable Fanboy

    Irredeemable Fanboy Jedi Knight star 3

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    Mar 27, 2020
    True, although that gets hard if you want to involve high stakes with a new menace to the Republic/Alliance, and not involve the main heroes, but by this point the NJO is almost as big as the old Jedi Order (and it has members that actually do stuff instead of sitting all day in the Council lol) that i can see Luke being relegated to a Yoda role of being just the one that gives the missions, stays on the temple to coordinate with all the Jedi's endeavors and teaches the younglings, the wildcards are Han and Leia, Han is a very proactive character, and Leia by late Post-ROTJ left politics, so she can't be justified as "oh she's just the Chancellor/Chief of State and is busy being the head of the goverment", so it's hard to make stories where they are still around, the NR/GA is in danger, and their relatives are involved, without adding them to the mix, because it makes sense, unless you explicitly retire or kill them.

    Young Jedi Knights did it well with Han and Leia not being involved as much, Jacen, Jaina, Tenel Ka, Zekk and Lowie were the focus, but that was because there were smaller threats, and Luke was active as the mentor.
     
  24. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Force Ghost star 6

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    Jul 9, 2016
    I mean i think that's a big flaw of the post NJO books is that they decided to keep doing BIG EVENTS instead of going back to more one and done trilogies and different books.

    Small crisis's that aren't intergalactic wars like YJK books.

    I genuinely think that after Big Events it important to take a step back and just breath...have some one and done....do some small scale stuff.

    In fact back to Star Trek i do think had TNG not happened....Star Wars was suffering a bit from the Star Trek movie franchise stuff of not passing the torch.

    Thankfully Star Trek did pass the torch...But it's sorta the Star Trek the motion picture problem of having a young captain only for Kirk to take command....again
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2022
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  25. Emperor Ferus

    Emperor Ferus Chosen One star 7

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    Jul 29, 2016
    Comparable to Frodo, maybe?