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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

PT How has TCW changed the PT for you?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Libs, Nov 12, 2018.

  1. Libs

    Libs Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Aug 17, 2018
    Whether you loved TPM, AotC and ROTS, felt lukewarm or actually hated it, I want to ask whether TCW season 1-6 had any influence on that?

    I mean personally I have always LOVED ROTS, but the first two I was lukewarm on. Never hated them either, just never loved them the way I did the big brother of that trilogy.

    Now I don't know exactly where my perspective changed, but somehow and somewhere thanks to the show my love for the whole PT era became universal.
    I loved spending time in that era and by default TPM and AOTC became part of that.

    Perhaps it was the fleshing out of characters, maybe it was the incorperation of some story elements that never got a huge pay off in Ep 3 ( Darth Maul's story, goal, motivations and relationship with Sidious, the mystery of Syfo Dias and the Kaminonians, Sith mythology ect. )
     
  2. Libs

    Libs Jedi Knight star 1

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    Aug 17, 2018
    Oops this is the wrong forum :/
     
  3. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011
    I definitely think the most significant contribution was actually making Anakin likeable.
     
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  4. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    Lookout, a rogue PT thread has escaped the PT forum! Run away, run away...!
     
  5. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of Future Films star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    Thread moved to the right forum. Don't you all just love magic?
     
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  6. Deliveranze

    Deliveranze Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2015
    Nah to be honest. Loved the PT Era already before it, the Dark Horse Republic comics, the 2003 Clone Wars micro series, and novels like "Shatterpoint" before 2008. I loved The Clone Wars, but beyond Obi-Wan, I didn't care much about what they did for Anakin or Padme.

    I missed the more complex Anakin, instead of the "Luke/Han"-type they tried in TCW. I mean, I understand the character had to be static as the he movies show his complex situation of his fall, but when fans try to act as if TCW redeemed the PT, not at all.

    If the OT doesn't need a show to develop Luke, Leia, or Han, neither does the PT (as I would argue Anakin, Obi-Wan, Padme are more fleshed out).
    Don't get me wrong, I love the show. It has some great arcs, fantastic action set-pieces, some great character development for Obi-Wan, etc., but people who put down the movies and act like the show is the only thing worth much from the PT, does RUB me the wrong way immensely.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018
  7. Harbour

    Harbour Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 15, 2015
    Didnt do much for me honestly. I mean, everytime i read some comments like "PT is ****, but NOW with TCW its good".
    No, if you have some comprehension skills PT does pretty great on its own.
    It doesnt mean i dont like TCW. They are good on themselves. I mostly enjoy it because of battles and clones stuff.
    I also hate Mortis arc. In my opinion it destroys the mythos perfectly and logically depicted in the 1 to 6 movies. I dont need the personification of the Force. And no, its not the same stuff as midichlorians i perfectly fine with. Mysterious bacteries are fun and interesting concept to build on in sci-fi fanatasy.
    Force simplified to three humanoid dudes and gals and couple animals smells bad and "special for kids" bad.
    It also ruins the whole "Balance=The Force without Sith influence" thing from the movie for me. The nowadays bull**** about Dark/Light Side equality came from here. I honestly dont believe making OT and PT Lucas thought about it in that way.
     
  8. Master Jedi Fixxxer

    Master Jedi Fixxxer Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 20, 2018
    TCW did not change the Prequels for me. And that's because I already loved all three of them, with their flaws, and with their amazing magic moments, which far outnumber the flaws. However, they did enrich the prequels, in the same way that other SW content has enriched the original trilogy. I personally didn't see significant differences in the character of Anakin between the movies and the animated show. It was perfectly logical for me that the Anakin in the show would appear more "likeable" and friendly in most of the episodes. It was the freaking Clone Wars. You know, the Wars that Anakin actually showed the galaxy that he had the potential to be the most powerful Jedi that ever existed.

    That doesn't mean that we don't see his heroic side in the movies as well. He is a total badass in Episodes 2 and 3, while at the same time we see his fall to The Dark Side. I mean, that's what these movies are about. He did appear to be kind, compassionate, passionate, a friend, a mentor and a lover in these 2 movies though, before he falls to the Dark Side.

    PS. The Mortiis arc is perhaps one of my favorite additions to the lore. It didn't exactly personify The Force. It just presented a very important and special location in the universe, which affects the fate of the galaxy in a unique way. And no, I don't think the point was that the Light and the Dark are equal. But it kinda said that unfortunately the darkness is present in the galaxy, and I think that's a great message for the real world as well.
     
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  9. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Chosen One star 6

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    Jan 23, 2011
    Comments like these... people disagree and it 'rubs you the wrong way' or they don't like the PT and they don't have 'comprehension skills'...

    :rolleyes:
     
  10. Ash_Satine

    Ash_Satine Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2017
    It did something for me as I like Ep 3 somewhat more than before. For me TCW flashed out both victims of the war - the Jedi and the clones. I discussed it in another thread as for me the clones are as much victims than the Jedi (arguably even more as they could not just step back and say "no" to the whole ***t).

    On a fun note: TCW did nothing for me on the front that I still can't watch the latter half of Ep. 3 without getting really hungry and wanting fried chicken. Sorry, since back than in the theater Mustafar is my synonym for "halbes Hähnchen".
     
  11. Deliveranze

    Deliveranze Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2015
    They can have their opinions like people who don't like TLJ, which I did btw, but if you're gonna claim it as anything more than an opinion (which a lot do), yes it does.
     
  12. Subtext Mining

    Subtext Mining Jedi Master star 4

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    Apr 27, 2016
  13. Thrawn082

    Thrawn082 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2014
    It makes the general story idea behind the PT far better imo. Because it took those interesting ideas that Lucas had, expanded on them, and condensed them into something truly compelling. Also:

    -TCW Anakin is far more likeable and feels far more like the man that Obi Wan remembered with such fond nostalgia in ANH.
    -I bought Anakin and Obi Wan's friendship far more in TCW than in PT. Same with Anakin and Padme, I get in TCW why these two are into each other.
    -TCW even managed the seeming Herculean task of making Jar Jar, tolerable, imo.
    -The politics are fleshed out more.
    -Anakin's noble qualities but also his flaws get fleshed out more.
    -Etc.
     
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  14. wobbits

    wobbits Force Ghost star 4

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    Apr 12, 2017
    TCW didn't really change much of anything for me in regards to the PT. I never even started watching it until after it had been canceled. There are aspects of the PT that I dislike but I have never hated the PT so I don't feel like the tv series "redeemed" anything.

    Lanter's version of Anakin got the benefit of more time, more storylines and good scripts in order to showcase the character's actions in individual Clone War events. Personally, I didn't need to see the whole Anakin goes after Rush Clovis with his bare hands in order to get across Anakin's capacity for darkness (per Lanter's comment from the Clone Wars panel at SDCC). That was made clear to me through his slaughter of the Tuskens after Shmi's death. The Rush Clovis character and storyline are one of my least favorite aspects of the show. I don't particularly care for Padme in that arc either.

    In Ep II Anakin is a young, overly confident/arrogant and rash acting padawan but TCW starts out as if he's already the unsurpassed star Jedi Knight of the Clone Wars and ready to be entrusted with his own young padawan. That was a bit of a quick character turn around for me and I think overlooked just because Filoni wanted to bring in Ahsoka asap.

    I watched the whole series through once, just to see what stories were presented but it's not a must watch over and over for me. I'll stick with the films.
     
  15. Alpha Spook

    Alpha Spook Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Jun 27, 2018
    Made me appreciate the era so much more, the extra lore and world building was intense. See the clones more than canon fodder, and the relationship between Anakin and Obi Wan was much better fleshed out.
     
  16. Subtext Mining

    Subtext Mining Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2016
    One thing I would say TCW adds to the films is, by getting to know the clones and their relationships with the Jedi, the emotional impact of the moment they turn on their generals and execute them.

    I also value Ahsoka and her role in the series. Not only is she a great character, but it's a treasure to see how Anakin was as a teacher, and perhaps would've been as a father.

    I also liked seeing more Dooku.
    And young Boba.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2018
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  17. xx_Anakin_xx

    xx_Anakin_xx Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 9, 2008
    Well like the prequel, I looked forward to TCW very much as Anakin/Vader is my favorite character. Needless to say I loved the prequel and the TCW just added to that love of the whole pre CT GFFA. What I loved about TCW is that they got Anakin just right, imo. I liked the addition of Ahsoka (after the movie and first ep, during which I was not too excited about her) and I still watch the show again and again on Netflix. Course, I loved the TCW Cartoon too, so maybe I am just a sucker for anything Star Wars, especially when Anakin or Vader are intrinsically and overwhelmingly involved. Can't wait for 2019 if it will be more of the same - I have not followed up on what it is to be about, solely that we are getting more, so we'll see. They can't do enough of it as far as I am concerned.

    Also, I really enjoyed their highlighting the clones. Now when I am reading SW lit, I am like "hey!!" when the author summarily murders clones "taking them out" left and right without a bye your leave. They really gave us a lot of insight into the individuality of the 'brothers'.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2018
  18. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    That Mace Windu and Jar Jar team up. [face_laugh]
     
  19. CaptainEO

    CaptainEO Jedi Grand Master star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2002
    I already loved the prequel movies. My least favorite was Episode II. TCW made me appreciate Attack of the Clones more. As part 2 of the prequel trilogy, Attack of the Clones is a bit clunky, but as a backdoor pilot for Clone Wars, it works wonderfully.
     
  20. Libs

    Libs Jedi Knight star 1

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    Aug 17, 2018
    Yeah that's exactly what I was trying and failing to say with regards to Ep 1 and 2

    As a sort of 2 part pilot to TCW and Revenge of the Sith they are much more palatable atleast to me
     
  21. Blackhole E Snoke

    Blackhole E Snoke Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Apr 26, 2016
    That isn't how the clone troopers were in the PT though. They didn't have individualism, see how none have personalized armour? They were programmed weapons, the jedi tried to see and treat them as individuals, like people with free will, but order 66 clearly proved them wrong. The EU created ARC troopers and Commandos, in order to tell stories about clones with more independence and creativity, but then TCW came and made all clones the same as this. This works to lessen the unethicalness of the clone army, and turns the clones into victims through mind control during order 66, instead of a sith weapon against the jedi. This was a change for the worse in my opinion.
     
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  22. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2014
    Yes agreed. I would take TCW more as entertainment and the PT films as the canon. Whilst I liked some of the storylines they did, I do concur that the entire point of the Clone Army was that they were an army that "obey any order without question," and it was simply their creativity to work out a way to do so that made them as effective if not superior to a droid army. I also concur that other books and stories such as Labyrinth of Evil and Rise of Darth Vader highlight the clones as they were in the PT films. As do several comics. The Clone troopers were not individuals. They were essentially modified humans bred for war and to obey orders.

    There might have been certain units created with greater degrees of independence and thinking ability than the regular grunts (indeed one of the books talks about Clone Commandos with more elite training), but nevertheless they are bred to follow orders from their superiors.

    The Clones were not meant to be the victims here, but the tools of war. And a masterful move by Palpatine. The Clone Troopers who later became the first Stormtroopers, were simply loyal to the command structure. The Commander of the Republic was the Chancellor who outranked the Jedi. Clone troopers followed their Commander who followed orders from their Jedi General. The Jedi Generals were higher than the Clones, but outranked by the Chancellor. What made the plan so brilliant and so tragic, was the fact that Palpatine issues Order 66, an executive order that brands the Jedi as enemies of the Republic, and to use lethal force to eliminate them.

    There is no hesitation on the part of the clone troopers, no regrets. They are following orders. It isn't some trance. Had the Jedi Council succeeded in removing Palpatine from office, or imposed a Jedi Junta (even if it was temporary), they would have commanded the entire Grand Army. The clone troopers have no independence and just follow orders. They clearly are shown in the films, to obey it immediately and fire upon Jedi Generals on sight. Had the Jedi just saved their life, it would be immaterial. As for clone troopers being ordered to arrest another - yet again they would follow orders. As a show that was enjoyable, but geared towards younger audiences, they made the clones a bit more individual. But they aren't for the most part (probably 99% of the army are not free thinkers). I think the film canon should prevail as that makes logical sense and adds weight to the greater story. No chips. Just the political command structure, orders and an evil, yet brilliant plan by the Dark Lord of the Sith. If the Jedi removed Palpatine successfully, then there is no Order 66.

    I think it would have been cool to see the Jedi Junta impose their will with the command of the Grand Army.

    For the Republic! For the Jedi!

    Interestingly, you see a great comic, where a Jedi making a last stand is asked by his remaining troopers what his orders are against the impending droid assault. He merely says "Die well." They comply and go out heroically.

    We mustn't let our personal feelings get in the way. TCW is enjoyable, but the films make it abundantly clear in AOTC, ROTS etc how the army and its composition works. Indeed if the Stormtroopers are clones (initially they would be) it also makes a whole lot of sense.
     
  23. Tonyg

    Tonyg Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 16, 2016
    If you allow me this @Libs the question should be Did the show change something in PT because my answer is No, the PT are perfect as they are. While I like Ashoka and the more fleshed side characters of the Jedi Order in general there are some things I dislike.
    First, Anakin. He is kind of Han Solo clone with some sporadic issues and not the melancholic James Dean kind dreamer of PT that I like so much. For that matter the love story in the show is the essence of cheesiness, is like taken from some ordinary teen movie and not the epic Tristan and Isolde type of the prequels.I realize that the show is made exclusively for kids that's why they should change some things, still as these are things that I like in PT, this annoys me a bit.
    And the other big issue are the clones, of course. The others already explained the moral problem with the clone army and the republic which is problem of every army in the real world: the perfect soldiers are effective merciless and totally obedient but this means that yes most of them will follow Order 66 without question. I think the micro series of Tartakovski made it better avoiding to show clones faces (which would make them well, more human and less tools of war.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2018
  24. Libs

    Libs Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Aug 17, 2018
    Oh my respect for the prequels goes wide and far, for sure
    I couldn't imagine Star Wars without them and I would not have been a fan today without them.

    But would I call them perfect? Absolutely not. Even ROTS which may either rank 1st or 2nd on my list has a few glaring holes

    I would come closer to call ANH or ESB the perfect Star Wars movies, but we all have different tastes off course

    I'm actually the kind of guy who loves Ashoka, BUT I could have done without her on the show too. Anakin never had a Padawan and we know that, however his interactions with her had a lot of charm. It also gave me that old OT 'trio' feeling.

    You could say TCW Anakin and Han Solo are similar in the sense that they're both hotshots, goofy and brave

    Which is far away from the moody, melancholic teenager in the movies I'll admit

    I could see Padme actually falling for the hunk that was TCW Anakin, I could TOTALLY buy their relationship there, a full 100%

    However I would never say they are clones to one another. Han had an edge, but a different one compared to TCW Anakin, it's all details I'll admit but still enough for me not to throw them in the same basket completly

    For me personally TCW is a much better interpetation of the character. Everytime I watch that show and see Anakin, being either the joyfull goof, the angry war general or the warm friend towards Obi/Ashoka/Padme I feel sad. Sad that such a good man one loses all those aspects and becomes a cold and careless cyborg

    And yet I could still see this man becoming that way too. Whenever he lost his temper I could always see the shadow of Vader looming over

    Whenever he tortured his prisoners or suspects for information, when he went full rage mode during his battles, whenever that urge crept up where he felt the need to save his friends against ALL costs

    With PT Anakin it always felt watching a ticking timebomb. The guy was never truly 'there' if you get what I mean. Like he was seeing a reality different in his mind than what we or others see
    Sad in a way that this guy who has obvious mental issues is not helped in the way he needed, and ultimately had to go on a school/tempel killing spree to be get taken seriously.
     
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  25. Tonyg

    Tonyg Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 16, 2016
    I agree with you that Anakin having a padawan is more than strange, he weren't ready. They could introduce Ashoka as Obi Wan padawan and Anakin as her mentor and protector, something like her spiritual big brother but again I think as this is exclusively show for kids maybe such relationship would look complicated. Although Ahsoka herself is great addition to the show as she is similar as character to Anakin in her age.
    But about Anakin's character I strongly disagree. Yes, Anakin (in PT) is not the guy from just around the corner and that is what makes him interesting. And how could he be that?
    Anakin is a very special young man who has prophetic dreams, who had supernatural abilities, who is extremely gifted pilot , has a real talent with machines and is unusually sensitive and intelligent: is obvious why Padme fell in love not to mention his explosion of emotions, including his melancholic vibe that is always there. So yes this also means he should be weird: well that is the point actually. Ordinary is the last word that I would add to him and this is what I like. Actually Tristan and Lancelot, which I see as prototypes of Anakin were weirdos also. Exceptional warriors yes, but I speak about characters. And this what attracted Isolde and Guinevere attention to them.
    Which leads me to why I cannot buy the romance in TCW show at all: Anakin and Padme behave like teenagers hanging around in a careless time than like secretly married woman and man in a time of war where every minute together is a precious jewel so they have no time to waste for teen-like flirting. Is just unrealistic for the situation in which they are and paradoxically in the same time so ordinary so it lacks the epic and the doom that brings their love in the movies.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2018