ST How Has the ST Affected Your Interest in Star Wars?

On the other hand, I feel we're getting swamped with stories about minor characters no one even remembers and whose names I forget once I've finished reading the books. Don't get me wrong, I liked "Lost Stars", but I haven't even picked up "Alphabet Squadron" yet because I'm not really interested in yet another story that has nothing to do with the overall story line (as far as I can tell) and seems to exist purely to make money for Disney. Plus, most of the new EU books seem to be badly written. I have never read such a poor movie novelization as the one for TFA, and the first "Aftermath" novel was plain horrible IMO.

I'm not against learning more about the "background characters" and their struggles, but first I want to know what's really been going on in the galaxy. I finally want to be able to get a feel for this (badly damaged) universe. I want to know what really happened after ROTJ, when Ben was born, where Luke went to find new Jedi, how and why everything went so horribly wrong. I'm tired of being strung along without answers because TPTB are afraid to use the "big" characters who are not to be touched in the EU works - or the movies, apparently. At least not in a reasonable way. There is a hole in the Star Wars universe and it's spanning about 40 years. I'm afraid it will never get filled and that's what's so frustrating about the ST for me at this point. TFA made a lot of promises, but TLJ and the EU failed to deliver.

 

The ST hadn’t affected my interest in Star Wars because there’s a lot more to Star Wars than the ST.

The ST only affects my interest in the ST.

 

I've been meaning to write this post for a while. My interest in Star Wars has shifted dramatically during the ST era. Arranging this by topic will probably be the easiest.

It has killed my investment in the future of the franchise

This is probably the biggest effect the ST has had on my Star Wars fandom. From the first time I watched the original six films when I was 12, Star Wars felt like more than just movies to me. They affected me on a deep level - morally, spiritually, creatively. I fell in love with the characters, the galaxy, and the concepts. When I discovered the Expanded Universe, my investment only deepened. It became about more than just a handful of movies that I loved or even my favourite characters. It became about the galaxy - a world in which a thousand different stories could be told. The GFFA was my home-away-from-home.

The way the ST has played out, however, is so contrary to my view of what Star Wars is that I can't accept it as being part of the larger story that I had fallen in love with. So far the epic story that was told in the PT&OT feels like it has been ruined by the ST. The PT told the story of the fall of the Republic and the creation of the Empire, the fall of the Jedi Order, and the fall of Anakin Skywalker. The OT told the story of the fall of the Empire, the return of the Republic, the return of the Jedi, and the redemption of Anakin by his son Luke Skywalker. The ST has taken away almost everything. The Jedi are gone again. The Republic is gone again. Luke fell to his demons in the end. It turns what was once an uplifting story about redemption into a depressing and cynical story.

I have to talk a little here about Luke because, as much as I disliked the direction TFA went, I still had hope. It was the portrayal of Luke Skywalker that felt like the point of no return. In my interpretation of the original six films, one of the major themes is that who you are is defined by the choices you make rather than by your background or bloodline. Anakin and Luke were given similar scenarios, but Anakin went the route of evil, while Luke chose the route of good. Anakin chose selfishness; Luke chose selflessness. Luke has his father's darkness within him, but it was his choice to attempt to redeem his father and then to choose death over killing him, that defined him as a hero. It's a story that has inspired me to be a better person and to master my own demons. I know it has meant just as much, and sometimes more, to countless others who have grown up with these stories.

We go from that to a Luke whose demons got the better of him in the end. It was only a moment, and yes, he didn't go through with it, but it was a moment that lead to the destruction of everything he hand his friends had fought and suffered for. And it turned him into a bitter, cowardly, and selfish old man. The fairy tale has gone to hell. I know he was "redeemed" at the end and we were told he was "at peace", but it felt unearned and I didn't buy it. It didn't wipe the bitter taste of seeing my childhood hero having fallen so far. And I didn't buy that Luke would run away like a coward in the first place. I didn't see Luke in TLJ. It was just Mark Hamill playing some guy. I could go on and on about this, but I had better move on.

Long story short, I can't accept the ST into my headcanon. It doesn't compute. The illusion has been shattered. And because of that, I have almost no interest in seeing RoS and, even the stuff I am excited about (The Mandalorian, TCW), I'm not as excited as I would have been when I was actually invested in the larger story. I'm about as excited as I would be for a new Marvel movie (which I enjoy, but I wouldn't say I'm a "fan" of, not like I am with Star Wars).

It made me not care about continuity anymore

There is an upside and a downside to this. The obvious downside is more or less what I said in my first point i.e. I don't care about the larger story anymore moving forward. The plus side is that I don't have to worry about things lining up or making coherent sense anymore. My "headcanon" is now a multiverse. There are three main universes all having the OT and PT in common. The first includes the Expanded Universe, the second includes TCW and whatever Lucas's ST would have been, and the third one includes the Disney stuff. If I wanted to get crazy, I could divide it further and have a canon that only includes the OT and the original Marvel comics, the OT plus the Bantam EU (since the latter was clearly written without the PT lore in mind).

It isn't "official" and probably never will be, but I highly recommend the multiverse mindset to any fellow disgruntled Star Wars fans. It has brought me a certain amount of peace with the new canon. In fact, despite having an all time low amount of investment, I will probably enjoy RoS more than the other two for that very reason. When I watched TFA and TLJ, I was nervous about how they were going to handle things. In my head, I was thinking, "They had better not ruin it!" Now, I don't care. I can just sit back and enjoy it. If I don't like it, there are other Star Wars continuities for me to enjoy. And why not? After all, it's all fiction. Is the Middle Earth Legendarium considered "obsolete" because Tolkien isn't writing in it anymore?

I love TCW again

This is an extension of the last point. I loved the first couple of seasons of TCW, but once it started overwriting stuff from the EU, it became hard for me to enjoy it. Mortis also didn't make much sense given what we know, or thought we knew, about the nature of the Force, the dark side etc. Concern for continuity kept me from enjoying it and I didn't even watch the last couple of seasons when they aired. Shortly after the EU was removed from canon, I watched it from beginning to end and fell in love with it all over again. It's now one of my favourite shows just like it was back in 2008-09.

I stopped reading Star Wars books

I mentioned before that I loved the EU. I became a fan around the time Legacy of the Force was coming out and I loved that series. The main part of my interest in Star Wars for quite a while was reading the books. My love for them became about equal with my love for the films. I'm not blind to the varying quality of the books themselves - some are just plain awful - but again, it was the idea of a larger universe that attracted me more than individual stories, though there were some great ones as well. Most of all, I think I loved the characters.

Under the Disney canon, I just can't bring myself to read them. Part of it is that I'm much busier than I was back in the golden age of Star Wars reading i.e. high school and I've expanded my reading tastes greatly since then. Another part of it is that most of them seem inconsequential. The EU was often labeled "supplemental materials", but events in them - the Yuuzhan Vong war, the Sith Wars, the rise of the Rule of Two, the Second Galactic Civil War etc. - were major events, every bit as significant as the Clone Wars and the Galactic Civil War, and you could only get them in the EU. Now, the books really feel supplemental - filling in gaps, plugging up holes, telling stories of minor characters. It's the kind of stuff I normally don't bother with. Once again, investment matters here too. Reading is a time commitment and I just don't care enough about the new stuff to make that commitment. If I'm in the mood for reading Star Wars, I will almost always go back to the EU.

I started collecting the EU again

This is a small thing, but I stopped collecting EU books in their heyday because, as far as I knew there was no endgame. They would just go on and on and I didn't want an entire room stuffed with the things. Now that it is a closed book, I'm looking for EU stuff at second hand stores again. At least my favourites.

It made me question the concept of fandom

This is kind of a sobering one, but the behaviour I have seen among Star Wars fans for the last couple of years has been very off-putting - both of those criticizing the new films and those defending them. The word "toxic" gets thrown around a lot, but I think it's earned among the worst of our fandom. Maybe this has always been a part of Star Wars fandom and I was just oblivious to it. I became a fan right before RotS came out and I had limited access to the internet. I missed the PT backlash. When I did become active on the internet, I joined a small Star Wars forum (that has since gone offline RIP). We were tight-knight and kind towards each other. I also became friends irl with other Star Wars fans who are also the furthest thing from "toxic". In my eyes, Star Wars was the catalyst for community. Now, it only seems like the catalyst for division. Discussing Star Wars has become like discussing politics. We are assigned political allegiance based on how we felt about the last Star Wars movie. Everything is taken out of context, there are conspiracy theories, name-calling, on and on. Everything is being filtered through political ideologies. Fandom used to be fun, but not so much anymore..

Just so I'm not a hypocrite, the negative emotions that I've felt towards the new stuff has also given me pause. Why am I getting so riled up over this? They're just movies. I know, I know. Stories can have incredible power and the Star Wars movies have had a good effect on my life growing up. But, now that the tide has turned and I don't like the new direction, why do I spend so much time thinking and interacting with something that makes me unhappy? Is it just habit? Is it hope that things will get better? I'm not sure, but my solution has been to start distancing myself from Star Wars and focusing more on the things that give me a greater sense of happiness and fulfillment. Less time immersing myself in someone else's world, more time creating my own through writing. Less time debating Force philosophy on the internet, more time researching real world philosophy and diving into the history and writings of my own religion. In the end, there's been good and there's been bad. I have no control over how Star Wars will be handled in the future, but I do control how I will react to it.

Anyway, that's it from me. High five to anyone who read this far.

 

This is pretty profound stuff my friend, and well worth the reading. Thank you for taking the time to share. At the end of the day, I think you've got it right. There's no point in investing in a 'fandom' for something that no longer brings you joy or contentment as it used to. At that point it ceases to be a fandom and just becomes an unhealthy obsession that leads to nowhere, so if you feel the need to break away to move forward in your own life, then 'you must do what you feel is right of course.'

On the other hand, I see that you have also countered that feeling of hopelessness and ennui by going back to the things about the franchise that you truly love and that brought you into SW in the first place, and in that vein, I would also say, you've got it right. You haven't truly lost what you've once loved, but gained instead a clearer understanding of what you loved and why. You have refined your tastes and parsed out the inessential to find the core of what brings contentment of joy from this great work, and that in itself is more valuable than anything when consuming entertainment. These films, for better or worse, are causing the fanbase to do a lot of soul searching en masse, as it were, to re-evaluate their relationship with the SW ip and what it is they really do or don't love about it. Was it ever really about that story, or just the childhood idea of something that they were really in love with at a certain point in their youth? That also seems to be the crux of conflict with our creatives. Are we really seeing people that loved this great story as GL had envisioned or presented, or just its spur of the times pop culture sheen that has worn away with age and the desire to break the great idols forged in the past, so that new monoliths dedicated to their own genius could rise in place of the old and sweep away their memory. A bit grandiose perhaps, but still I think a valid question and one that LFL really needs to consider the answer to as they look to move forward in the next few years.

Are these changes being sought in service of the great tapestry of the Star Wars saga, or for something as cynical as the greater corporate bank account of their new patrons and the egos of filmmakers looking to make good with the new management?

 

Nothing that ever comes out will affect my love of past Star Wars films. You can always choose which films to accept as your Star Wars. Though my interest in the new films has really shifted. Revenge of the Sith was one of the most anticipated movies I can remember (child of the PT era here). The hype for the Force Awakens was even more just because of the gargantuan task it had of continuing the sacred classic trilogy. I didn't even leave disappointed, but my interest wasn't there as much anymore because it seemed to emphasize mass appeal over a natural progression to the story. The Last Jedi had the usual exhilaration of seeing a new Star Wars film unfold for the first time, but ended on a real downer note and felt further disconnected. Mind you, this is my personal views here, but it felt like it disrespected the legacy characters to the point where I'm morbidly fascinated to see where they take it next. I'm not as much interested in the actual story because the ending to TLJ kind of stopped that cold. To the point where it seems like ROS is doing various stunts to try to rope in the old fans.

I like the spinoffs, with Solo being my favorite, but I feel like those would also fall victim to filmmakers wanting to put their own stamp on it versus making a Star Wars film.

I'm more interested in the old canon as well. I'm aware that some of the EU stuff was just wacky and they tried to fit everything under that roof (probably contributing to its demise), but a little bit of research can tell you what's a worthy addition to the canon vs what's just fluff.

 

Yeah, morbid curiosity will probably be about the only thing to propel me to see TROS at the cinema. I wonder how many other people there are with this mindset("Ugh, let's get it over with"). Probably not that many, but we can't be too few. The funny thing is, by going to the cinema at all, we'll be contributing to the film's success at box office.

 

If I see it at all ( and I may not), it will only be when I can see it for free.

 

Fractionally. Solo failed at the box office. Is that because "only" fans went or they didn't go "at all" as in obviously many fans went but how many more than that?

TFA had a 248 open and TLJ had a 220 open. There is no feeling of any great momentum for the movie so we'll have to see how the ticket sales go after the trailer and the tracking projections. The closest barometer for this year for TROS is probably Lion KIng. It certainly isn't Endgame.

If it does TLK numbers in NA (around 550) plus a similar international percentage difference for this trilogy then it'll get to around a 1.2 billion total. Domestically that's put it just outside the top 10 and WW around 20th. Hardly poor but certainly lacking in comparison to the other two movies and not on the same arc as the past two trilogies where at least in NA the second movie made far less but the third went up (ROTJ around 30 million, ROTS around 80 million).

 

Honestly after TLJ, I was a confused fan... Not sure if I liked TLJ or hated it. It was an honest to God struggle since 2017.. But I would say I did lose interest a little bit. However, when the TROS trailer was released my interest went right back up again.

 

^^ I agree wholeheartedly.

I've been with Star Wars since the beginning, so with the conclusion of the Saga I would be very interested to read a non-biased work of where each trilogy impacted the culture of its respective times, which era disenfranchised more fans, how the property evolved post Lucas, the works.

That's I think where I'm at once the ST is in the can. I'm always going to love SW. But I'm not subscribing to Disney+ (and hope that they will release SW content on DVD/Blu-Ray I can just rent from the library), and I don't believe I'll be at any future theatrical releases after TROS.

My interest in SW will be the same as the interest I have in "the one that got away" real-life relationship. I will look back on it fondly, and politely invite it out for a beer to catch up on old times. And laugh and just shake my head at the nonsense its been up to since we've been apart.

 

I'm not surprised Luke stans would boycott Leia's film like this.

 

This is NOT Leia’s film. This is Rey palpatine and grandpa Palpatine’s film.

 

I personally think the reason I have gotten so riled up about the ST is that this was completely avoidable. Lucas gave them a treatment, and given his track record, I for one believe it would have been much better than we've gotten so far.

Psychologists say that people have a much easier time dealing with tragedy if the tragedy was caused by natural events. If a person is killed in an earthquake, or is struck by lightning, it's easier to accept than when there is a tragedy that could have been prevented or was caused by human malevolence. And while Disney was not malevolent in their decision to toss Lucas' treatment, the arrogance and the ego necessary to make such a decision, IMO, means to me that the entire thing was very avoidable. The arrogance of a few, combined with corporate greed and lack of morals led to the ST we have gotten. It's much harder to accept than if the whole thing was simply an honest effort gone bad.

 

I just await the endless wars over the PT Whiners Vs ST Whiners...

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

That decision only needed a few things to help it - not corporate greed or lack of moral
1.) They were probably jammed together quickly for the sale. The facts that we know make it seem pretty likely. I'm not saying he hadn't put thought to it before '12, but he was done with movies. "Never" was his answer to when 7,8,9 were gonna come out.
2.) sub-midichlorian nature of the force
3.) watching the PT...yeah, I'll say it. More of that would have ruined the franchise, and sorry if you love it. TFA feeling OT saved it. A PT feelign ep VII would have been the real end.
4.) Crystal Skulls

I personally would really love to know what those treatments looked like, but I don't think JJ Abrams - king of nerds - wanted to slight GL. Come on, he changed it knowing it was going to go against the creator of the franchise. He did it because they were primarily unusable by all of our standards. Just my theory.

 

^ I honestly feel like some of the reasons you give above perfectly reflect what I would call corporate greed or lack of moral. The entire notion of buying the franchise that has always been under control of its creator for four billion dollars, and then thinking you know how to do it better is beyond arrogant.

 

@fugacity

Do you think the Force lore we've gotten so far in the ST has been sufficient? I personally think it's been non-existent. If you've never heard of or seen any of the previous movies, wouldn't you wonder what the heck it even was strictly from the info of the ST?

It's not a personal slight, because I enjoyed the PT when it was released, BUT understood where the "haters" were coming from as well as agreed with every criticism it received. But one thing I was looking forward to the most about a ST was a deeper dive into the Force. Not the lip service paid to it we've gotten so far. But if a viewer thinks it's fine, I'm not really one to argue that point of view.

Now of course I only say 'so far', because TROS might still go into some deeper stuff. I'm not counting on it, but I'm hoping for it.

I'm with @Reepicheep775 & @Obironsolo on their reasons though. And I too am wondering why I feel the way I do toward the ST, when even the god-awfulness of some of the PT didn't affect me at all.

Is it an age thing? A brain chemistry/psychological adaptation due to wisdom and more world experience? A geographic thing? Is it social media (of which this is literally the only place I participate in it)? I don't know...it would be fascinating to study though.

Long story short - Whills and sub-midichlorians tied in with the Unifying & Cosmic & Living Force lore would be a much cooler story in my opinion. GL wouldn't have had to direct it or write it completely. But his story could've been used and even fleshed out more by others.

It seems it's just a patchwork of his ideas - and a thin one at that.



Just my two cents. I honestly dislike all the bickering back and forth about the ST. I can see why people like it, or hell even love it. I envy that. I strive to see where they're coming from for the most part. I only wish those that do could accept the other points of view which are equally, and sometimes from a technical storytelling point of view, just as accurate in their dislike for it.

Whew! That was long-winded! Apologies.

 

I don't really want TROS to go any "deeper" with the Force, mostly because I don't trust that it'll be done without making bad decisions.

 

To me it is people not named George Lucas retconning my childhood. It's basically fan fiction at this point.

 

It's hard to say whether or not the sequel trilogy has affected my interest in Star Wars. On one hand, whenever I see something Star Wars related, I do usually think of the sequels and how much I hope it isn't like them. On the other hand, I am looking forward to all of the announced Disney+ shows, especially the Clone Wars. I've never been big on reading outside material like the EU so not much has changed on that front (though I do prefer the older EU overall). I really enjoyed Rogue One and liked Solo. Some of Rebels was okay and I didn't even bother with Resistance because I don't care about anything that close to the sequels in the timeline. It's just a very boring and depressing time period.

I guess I could say that the trilogy has somewhat dampened my opinion on Star Wars but I really try to enjoy the series still. I can't just not think about what I know ends up happening to Luke, Leia, and Han while I'm watching the original trilogy. Now, with Palpatine being back, that'll affect Anakin too. While I would have preferred the best-case scenario in which we get a great sequel trilogy (preferably with at least the story written by George) and a bunch of spin-off material that I can pick and choose as to what I want to watch/read/whatever, I guess I'll have to settle for just the latter.

 

Well there is most definitely that aspect to it. The trust.

Maybe it isn't so much that interest in SW has waned...it's the TRUST in SW that has waned.

Yeah -- I'm actually thinking that is the key to all this ST vs. OT vs. PT vs. Fan against Fandom hubbub.

 

I'm not 100% sure that the saga needs to get to the bottom of "what is the force." I think that is bad for the story. It's not a mystery to be solved. Telling us there are microbes that whisper force secrets is not a good choice to me.

I'll take some more lore, and I think we got some from Luke and we're set up to get some more. I think there's a big aspect of balance that I'd like to understand better. I think that would be good material to dig into in the Saga. Luke was onto something in TLJ, he just wasn't 100% right about it. I hope we get a little of that, and I hope it's done well.

I hate to say it, but I trust just about anyone more that Lucas. I hate to call him a "has been", but I don't see a lot to convince me otherwise in the recent past. I cringe at an ST with him in charge. I think he'd have made a great consultant. But he didn't want to do that. He wanted to control the story and I doubt his ability to do anything short of be fully an charge. I believe the PT suffered dramatically from this.

In short - I hope Filoni is the new live-action guru from here on out. I trust him to flesh out force lore on the small screen.

*also "like" because you can acknowledge the godawfulness of the PT while still overall defending it for what it did big picture. Very much my sentiment. I love them and hate them - I don't wish them wiped from canon, just wish they had been exectued well.