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CT How is Luke the most powerful Jedi?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by NakkyGraphics, Mar 6, 2016.

  1. Emperor Ferus

    Emperor Ferus Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 29, 2016
    Genetics may well have a role, and I can't find the exact quote from Lucas. My take is that while ANH Luke would have easily lost to a Jedi Master (TESB Luke lost to Vader), he was destined to be the most powerful Jedi.
    Even if ROTJ (back then no one knew if it would be the last film) didn't have him quite there yet, it is believable that he would eventually reach that point, and judging by TFA and what we know about TLJ, I don't see why he couldn't be.
     
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  2. EntechednReformatted

    EntechednReformatted Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Oct 17, 2009

    Mmm ... maybe, but I don't know if I'd attach that much significance to Yoda's line to Dooku there. It strikes me as more of a taunt than a statement about the nature of Force powers, a bit of smack talk from an old master to a wayward student, something Yoda probably said to him 100 times in the past, that he knows will annoy his old apprentice.

    Dooku: I've become more powerful than any Jedi ... even you <shoots lightning>
    Yoda: <handles lightning> Wrong again, youngling. Looks like you aren't as smart as you think you are.

    I'm not buying the idea that it required some sort of secret procedure that Yoda is keeping to himself for some reason. I'd say that Yoda handled that lightning the same way any Jedi does anything ... by using the Force. Using it very well, to be sure ... using it more adeptly than other Jedi could likely manage (and in particular using it more adeptly than Dooku was managing), but still just using the Force. The Force sent that lightning back, just like the Force lifts X-Wings and rocks, just like the Force guides lightsabers and proton torpedos, and just like the Force exerts a strong influence over the weak-minded. The Force does the work, the Jedi just needs to direct the Force towards the goal. And based on everything that anyone has ever said about how to actually use the Force, this is always just a variation on the same thing, namely: concentrate to quiet your mind of all stray thoughts by focusing on the moment and the task at hand, feel the Force, then act instinctively and unselfconsciously.

    Easier said than done, to be sure. The better a Jedi gets at keeping his own stray thoughts, doubts, hopes, fears, ambitions, and anxieties from intruding on the moment, the more effectively the Force will respond to him, and the more impressive the feats that Jedi can perform will be. When pitting your powers against another Force user, you must banish both the fear of losing and the elation that comes with beginning to win. Nothing gets the conscious mind churning like the thrill and terror of high-stakes competition, and failure to keep that in check will be your downfall. It's like a staring contest, except the loser isn't the first to blink, it's the first to think. Most importantly, no matter how good you get, using the Force is something you can always get better at. The conscious mind can never be completely silenced, but it can be made quieter and quieter for longer and longer, under harsher and more distracting circumstances. Yoda was just better at this than his peers.

    That's how the Jedi use the Force, anyway. We have seen an alternative method in canon, one that's more ... I guess the word I'd use is procedural ... one that does depend on secret techniques and elaborate rituals, namely: sorcery. The Jedi shun this method and content themselves with the powers the Force provides "naturally" via their zen-esque thing. The Sith dabble in sorcery, but the real experts are the Nightsisters. With incantations, potions, and artifacts, sorcery allows the Nightsisters to achieve some very elaborate and powerful effects, but at the cost of the immediacy and spontaneity of the Jedi powers. So could Yoda have done a little study of sorcery sometime in his 800+ years? I suppose it's possible, he's lived a long time. Still, the Yoda we see in the prequels seems like a Master committed to Jedi orthodoxy. He looks to have become more open-minded after the Jedi fell, but as of the start of the Clone Wars ... I don't see it.
     
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  3. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    Except it falls in line with Anakin going to Yoda to learn how to stop people dying, something that he believes that the Council and Yoda in particular would have knowledge of and would only share in the most serious of circumstances. The idea that there is knowledge that is withheld isn't that far fetched with Yoda's trick.
     
  4. Master Endz-One

    Master Endz-One Jedi Padawan star 2

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    Jun 30, 2017
    I don't know if Luke is the most powerful force user. I know he's Anakin's son, but his mom isn't a Jedi. Does Luke hold the same potential as his father, or does he hold less potential than Anakin, due to him having a non force sensitive mother.
     
  5. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    Lucas has said that Luke has the same potential that Anakin would have had, had he not been injured. And that Leia, being a twin, is the same way. Which extends to Ben.
     
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  6. Rachel_In_Red

    Rachel_In_Red Jedi Knight star 3

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    May 12, 2013
    He sure doesn't seem like the most powerful following TLJ.
     
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  7. JEDI-RISING

    JEDI-RISING Chosen One star 6

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    Apr 15, 2005
    i don't know how it would extend to Ben. that means automatically anyone named Skywalker...or half Skywalker is the most powerful forevermore
     
  8. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Hand of the Mod Squad and Enforcer of the Realm star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 1, 2012
    Interesting lesson in Star War Universe Genetics
     
  9. Jester J Binks

    Jester J Binks Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 19, 2016
    The Clone Spores

    Knock me up and then choke me out and they will become far more powerful than you can possibly imagine.
     
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  10. MoffJacob

    MoffJacob Jedi Knight star 2

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    Dec 25, 2015
    The lineage of the Chosen One Born From the Force
    Anakin Skywalker -> Luke Skywalker -> Ben Solo Skywalker

    I think it was implied in VIII that Force Ghost Luke may be as wise-powerful as Yoda
     
  11. JEDI-RISING

    JEDI-RISING Chosen One star 6

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    Apr 15, 2005
    thanks for the spoiler
     
  12. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    You did pay attention to the third act?
     
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  13. Rachel_In_Red

    Rachel_In_Red Jedi Knight star 3

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    May 12, 2013
    Because he created a hologram of himself?
     
  14. VadersLaMent

    VadersLaMent Chosen One star 10

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    Apr 3, 2002
    Not only a hologram, but one that can physically interact and do so across light years.
     
  15. Rachel_In_Red

    Rachel_In_Red Jedi Knight star 3

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    May 12, 2013
    I don't know that that makes him the most powerful Jedi of all time. I'm a big Luke fan, though, so if he comes back in IX and wrecks stuff I would love to get on the train.
     
  16. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    Let me put it to you this way, we don't see the other Jedi and Sith do what Luke did.
     
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  17. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Hand of the Mod Squad and Enforcer of the Realm star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 1, 2012
    Didnt Snoke use a similar attribute on Hux in the begining of the movie? I know its somewhat different, but he was able to physically manipulate Hux from a distance.
     
  18. Jordan1Kenobi

    Jordan1Kenobi WINNAR, CB DRAFT, CONQUEROR OF DP4M, also host star 6 VIP - Game Host

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    Sep 30, 2012
    He’s not in canon. He is in the EU. From what we saw in TLJ he might be, but we never got to see the feats that we saw with Yoda and Mace, so it’s hard to say. I’d assume he became the most powerful, but there’s nothing to prove that.
     
  19. Lord Sith Harloxzz

    Lord Sith Harloxzz Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jun 27, 2016
    in the EU
    Luke was the most powerful
    In Lucas Canon
    Luke according to the words of Lucas
    in Disney Canon
    Probably Kylo, Rey,Snoke, Sidious or Anakin
     
  20. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    Not to the same degree and intensity. Hell, it wound up
    killing Luke while Ben had to kill Snoke with a Lightsaber.

    Did we see Yoda and Mace do what Luke did? No. Not even Palpatine could do that. Only a Skywalker who was fully trained in the Force and as powerful as Luke, could have done what he did.

    Kennedy has said time and again that they're not disregarding what Lucas wrote, much less said.
     
  21. darth-skycrawler

    darth-skycrawler Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Aug 7, 2001
    Luke is not close to being the most powerful Jedi from what we see of him on screen. He should have been, but who knows what he was doing now between ROTJ to TLJ. He had even shut himself off from using the force for a number of years.

    Going by what Lucas has said the most powerful force user we see in the first 6 films is Palpatine. Yoda a touch below him and then Mace a touch below that, but Palpatine, Yoda and Mace are on the same tier.

    Below them, but closing quickly would come Anakin/Vader in ROTS.

    Then comes the Sith Lords: mechanical Vader and Dooku.

    With Obi Wan just below that.

    Anakin and by extension Luke/Leia had ridiculous potential. They could have been twice as powerful as Yoda and the Emperor, which is obscene when you think Yoda is the most powerful Jedi and Sidious the most powerful sith. It's scary to think what they could be.Of course Anakin has his body destroyed, stopping him from reaching his full potential. Instead of 200% of the Emperors power he is around 80% like Dooku. Leia is untrained and Luke has yet to reach his full potential in ROTJ.

    However, if we accept that Vader is around Dooku level, then Luke is close or at that level already in ROTJ. So Luke in ROTJ should be more powerful than every Jedi except we see, possibly ever accept Yoda, Mace and Anakin. As for the TLJ we need to know what his been doing for the last 30 years. You would imagine he would have reached his full potential, but TLJ does not imply he has.

    As for Luke's training, I have always felt that was a weak point of the CT when compared with the PT. Some of it can be harmonised, by accepting the Jedi learnt a lot of non force related things at the temple: maths, languages, georgraphy, history, sciences, the latest technology, social sciences of the different cultures, diplomacy, piloting, negotiations, leadership etc. Even when it comes to the force they must have learnt a lot about controlling your emotions etc. I imagine that Luke had all of that scrapped and just focused on only force related issues.
     
  22. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    Luke in ROTJ is powerful enough to deal with Vader in battle as he did, but still lacks the years of experience to battle Palpatine which is why he needed his father's help to stop him. With time and continued training, Luke would reach the levels that Anakin had the potential to reach. Yes, Luke did
    stop for a period of time using the Force and was quite rusty, but by the time of the Battle of Crait, Luke was capable of doing what he did.
    That's still plenty powerful.

    As to Luke's training as a whole, yes, the educational aspects weren't necessarily since he had all that was necessary. He wasn't being trained from birth as Obi-wan had. So that left the required Jedi skills necessary to face the Sith and train more Jedi. Lucas even made a point in saying that even though he has enough skill to face the Sith in ROTJ, he is lacking in the other areas that leave him vulnerable to the Sith. Which is the result of his rushing off before the training was completed. Hence it was a difficult task fighting Vader, whereas when Obi-wan fought Dooku, he was in a more stable place than with Maul.
     
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  23. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Host, PT Interview Thread star 10 VIP - Game Host

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    Feb 18, 2014
    Its been done
    Sidious did it to Dooku in TCW
    Vader did it to Admiral Ozel
     
  24. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    What those two did was simply Force choke someone from across a great distance. What Luke did was
    astral project himself to Crait, alter his appearance and carry his father's Lightsaber.

    The Sith didn't do this. Hell, Palpatine needed Sith magic just to mess with Yoda's mind. Luke didn't.
     
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  25. Game3525

    Game3525 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jun 25, 2008
    Yeah.

    As much as I dislike TLJ, Luke's force projection pretty much says it all IMO. He is the most powerful Jedi in galactic history and the second most powerful Force user in galactic history (The Father is number one).
     
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