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Lit How should darksiders be handled post ST?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by StarWarsFan91, Feb 8, 2017.

  1. StarWarsFan91

    StarWarsFan91 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2008
    For me I want to stop seeing them apart of some Empire. If some variation of Imperials still exists after the ST is done, their shouldn't be anymore darksiders apart of them.

    Hopefully we see no Sith coming back. Best to keep exploring the Sith pre-RoTJ.

    I want to see more of darksiders having lesser power and not motivated to try to rule the galaxy.

    For example, a post-ST one that runs a criminal group (pirates?). A dark jedi that doesn't dream of wiping out the Republic but focused on smaller tasks.

    Another idea is to create another darkside faction, but one that is quite different from the Imperial style one.

    While I disliked we got a Lost Tribe of Sith in the EU, the idea of a civilization that lost contact with the galaxy, influenced by the darkside could work in the new continuity. They could have ancient sith survivor roots, but who's culture has evolved to a non-Sith identity. Not having large armies of force wielders, just a small amount of darksiders.

    Wielding various types of weapons including a few ancient sith lightsabers. Also lacking the power/strength the Sith and Snoke and Co had, with inferior technology. Created not to be another big threat to the galaxy like the Sith were, but just another player.

    So what are your thoughts on the future of darksiders after the ST is over?
     
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  2. SyndicThrass

    SyndicThrass Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 25, 2016
    I'd like to see different sects established that aren't necessarily the Sith, groups that have their own unique philosophy that's more morally challenging than what the Sith were shown throughout the canon. I'd also prefer it if there was a clear separation between the Darksiders and whatever militant antagonistic army they come up with, so that it's no longer just derivatives of Vader/Palpatine.
     
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  3. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 8, 2016
    Set Harth is a pretty good Legends example of dark side motive diversity. He doesn't care about the Jedi-Sith conflict the only real thing he shares with the Sith is a desire to live forever.

    Other than that he just likes to party.

    So post-ST hedonistic dark Jedi that don't wanna die but aren't afraid to hurt people might make interesting villains.
     
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  4. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2002
    Man I'm not even sure yet how dark siders are going to be handled within the ST yet...
     
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  5. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    Yeah, at this point, I'm more concerned about them either establishing how Snoke and the KoR are different from Sith (as was originally claimed) or just explicitly doing away with that except in name (as I suspect Snoke may be an ancient Sith).

    Or ideally, both.
     
  6. Chris0013

    Chris0013 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 21, 2014
    I think the Sith will be back...there will always be Force sensitives and dark emotions...mix the 2 and throw in a Sith Holocron and you have a new Sith Order.
     
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  7. Dr. Steve Brule

    Dr. Steve Brule Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Yeah, right now, even though it's stated that the Knights of Ren are not Sith... functionally, they are, and as we know literally nothing about them, there's no way to know exactly how they're supposed to be different.

    Especially because in the deleted scene when Snoke talks to Kylo Ren and tells him that he's different from the Sith because he came from the light side... uh, that's not exactly unique to Kylo Ren or unheard of for the Sith. Two of the four movie Sith fit that description.
     
  8. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    Some ways they could use dark siders in the future:

    * Seers/oracles that advice the warlord/pirate prince/mercenary leader that is ravaging/plundering across systems. Completely lack any kind of combat abilities.

    * Wuxia bad guy martial artists, that unlike the Sith don't know things like TK and don’t use lightsabre.

    * Mystical assassins that are masters of stealth and killing from the shadows but are not much of a physical threat if they have to fight in the light and/or attack from the front.

    * The witch-aristocracy of a magocracy world/confederation who are all squishy wizard but they are protected by competent elite bodyguards.
    Why?
     
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  9. Snax Rebo

    Snax Rebo Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 1, 2017
    I'm in the minority, but I wouldn't mind the Sith making a return, because at the end of the day- they're perfect villains. I feel like trying to make darkside villains often boils down to just "How are these guys different from the Sith?", and the answer is "They really aren't".

    It's why I'm not so hard on the Vong. Aside from the force immunity, they were pretty cool.
     
  10. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    If Kylo Ren isn't supposed to be a Sith (or trying to be a Sith), why does the movie emphasize so much that he wants to emulate Vader and finish his work? Kylo needs to do more do differentiate himself from Vader if he's not trying to be a Sith. Something like, "I admire my grandfather, but I'm different from the Sith for (whatever reasons)".

    As it is, we have this bizarre contradiction where Kylo is supposed to be trying to emulate Vader as much as he can, but the audience is told by the filmmakers that Kylo's not a Sith or trying to be one, and does not seem to be trying to recreate them.
     
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  11. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    I think the best case in the Old EU of darksiders who weren't Sith or Sith-copies were the Sorcerers of Rhand.

    They didn't want to rule. They wanted to speed up the ultimate destruction of everything. In a political sense, they'd be violent anarchists and infiltrators.

    That would be interesting to see... and be different, while still seeming like Star Wars.

    "Only power is real, and the only real power is the power to destroy. Existence is fleeting. Destruction is eternal."
    [​IMG]



    What are some other Legends darksiders, besides the Sorcerers of Rhand and the already-mentioned Set Harth, that aren't Sith copies and would make a good fit in the new EU?

    Maybe another could be Darksiders who don't want to dominate existing life... but just rule over as God-Emperor over life that they create?

    There was also Darth Wyyrlok's idea of converting everyone in the galaxy to become followers of the dark side.

    Or perhaps a Darksider who could actually bring eternal life and prosperity to the galaxy, actually make the galaxy a better place... but in return, demanded to be treated as a God-Emperor.

    In contrast to an Emperor, there could also be a dark-side Liberator... wanting to free the galaxy from the corrupt rule of the Republic... but doesn't want to rule, or anyone to rule. But not interested in destruction, like the Sorcerers of Rhand.

    It would also be interesting if something like the Fel Empire with its Imperial Knights ever had to go to war with the Republic/Jedi without the Sith being involved... though they aren't darksiders.

    (The Dathomir Witches in canon just aren't interesting to me... an isolated tribe that keeps to themselves, doing things that don't feel like Star Wars)
     
  12. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 8, 2016
    That was an odd part of TFA for me as well, he's trying to emulate his grandfather yet doesn't call himself a Sith? It was so unclear. Does he think he can do better? Are there any philosophical or tactical differences that make the distinction worth while?

    Really TFA should have done a better job explaining that.
     
  13. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2005
    It is a bit weird. I would imagine they're planning on elucidation down the line, however.

    I'd be pretty pleased if Snoke turned around at the end of it all and revealed that his only goal was to bring about universal destruction while using the First Order as a means to that end.

    It would also allow for Kylo Ren to turn on him and contribute to the victory of "good" without going through a redemptive arc.

    Rey: What do you want?

    Kylo: I told you. I want to stop Snoke. I want to save the universe.

    Rey: Okay, you do remember that you're a dark sider, right?

    Kylo: We like to talk big, we dark siders do. "I'm going to destroy the universe" It's just tough guy talk. Struttin' around with your friends over a bowl of bloodsoup. The truth is, I like this universe. You've got... pod racing, Spacechester United, and you've got people. Billions of people walking around to dominate and rule. It's all right here. But then someone comes along with a vision. With a real passion for destruction. Snoke could pull it off. Goodbye, Coruscant. Farewell, Rakata bloody Prime. You know what I'm saying?


    . . .

    He can still be Darth Plagueis or NU!Rhett or Ezra as well, of course. :p[face_tee_hee]
     
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  14. SilentGuy66

    SilentGuy66 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 1, 2014
    Not wanting to undermine Anakin's sacrifice in ROTJ I'm pretty sure Lucasfilm will create an entirely new sect of darksiders who are like Sith but called whatever George Lucas called them in his original script treatment- the Bogun or something
     
  15. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    The Ashla and the Bogan?
     
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  16. Ackbar's Fishsticks

    Ackbar's Fishsticks Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 25, 2013

    Well, just in the Newniverse, the Nightsisters from TCW seemed like a pretty successful darksider-but-not-Sith faction.
     
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  17. StarWarsFan91

    StarWarsFan91 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2008
    They were.....but they came down with a case of the genocides.

    I do want to see more Nightsisters such as in the form of a few survivors off world at the time, or in pre-TCW content.

    But with their demise, it is further reason why we should eventually get a darkside faction that is quite different from the ones associated with the Empire.
     
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  18. Snax Rebo

    Snax Rebo Jedi Knight star 4

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    Feb 1, 2017
    Nightsisters were very interesting, but they're dead. A faction that deals with magic would be nice to see again.
     
  19. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    We could easily explain that there are more Nightsisters by explaining that it was just that one clan/keep that was exterminated and there are other clans/keeps on Dathomir.
     
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  20. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    Ugh... that's the last thing we need, Sith in everything but name.



    Nightsisters are even worse.

    They just aren't interesting to me... an isolated tribe that keeps to themselves, doing things that don't feel like Star Wars
     
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  21. Havoc123

    Havoc123 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 26, 2013
    Corporate Execs or even politicians in the style of Vectivus. Not wanting to dominate nor rule the Galaxy, just carve themselves a piece to influence/rule in peace and not bother with the Jedi/Sith holy wars and prophecies. The Force (Dark Side included) would just be another weapon to them like their wealth.
     
  22. StarWarsFan91

    StarWarsFan91 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2008
    I disagree. Having other clans existing post TCW would infringe on that Sith/CIS victory. The clone wars wars has many CIS losses with them being defeated in the end, so it's best to keep the CIS wiping out for good this dark side society. Also it would benefit storytelling of an off world survivor. She has no other clan to go to, practically the last of her kind.
     
  23. Sable_Hart

    Sable_Hart Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2009
    Don't compare the majesty of Angelus with the disappointment that is Snoke.
     
  24. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2005
  25. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2002
    It's way too early and we know way too little about the Knights of Ren to definitively call them derivative or "Basically Sith." What's clear is that they like the Sith...
     
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