main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST How TROS Has Affected Your View Of The ST Films

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Lord Jocusta, Dec 23, 2019.

  1. dagenspear

    dagenspear Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 9, 2015
    I don't see it as impossible. But I think, either way, some soft rebooting would've been a way to go for the story, in order for it to work.

    Though Rey recruiting other jedi I think doesn't really speak much to her character journey as is.

    Similar to the recruiting for the resistance.
     
  2. Mac6uffin

    Mac6uffin Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    May 12, 2020
    She thinks she can, because of the connection they have through the Force. That's why they both "see" that the other will join them. They are both correct... and mistaken.
     
  3. Mac6uffin

    Mac6uffin Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    May 12, 2020
    Anyway, another thing that bothers me about this movie. Early on in TROS Rey tells Leia that she still feels she has to "earn" the Skywalker saber. Except it called to her in TFA and even flew to her hand in the climatic duel in that movie. It's the saber that she used throughout TLJ after Luke tossed it and it was torn apart and fixed by the start of TROS.

    Why she suddenly thinks she has to earn the right to wield the saber is a weird regression of her character. When I talked about how TROS felt like it was shoving the story of an entire trilogy into one film, this is an example. TROS not only doesn't do a good job of continuing TLJ, but TFA as well.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2021
  4. Daxon101

    Daxon101 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 7, 2016
    I don't think Rey ever earned the saber. she just happened to have it. in the end it wasn't her saber. it was Anakin > Lukes.
     
  5. dagenspear

    dagenspear Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 9, 2015
    Her thinking she can through their force connection isn't said or shown and she has no reason to think that would do that, as his own dad couldn't reach him. Now the vision is a reason why she thinks that may work. However, that's not a personal emotional reason based on her emotional development. There's also the whole, she has no reason to even know it's a vision she saw, as no one has explained how this all works, like Luke had with Yoda, but that's a different thing.
     
  6. Darthvader1975

    Darthvader1975 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    May 2, 2020
    TROS had a very difficult job of wrapping up not just the ST but the entire Skywalker saga and it was never going to do it well enough to please fans. It also had to try and fix TLJ too even though I enjoyed TLJ. There are some great moments in it, Billy Dee as Lando was so cool and the action sequences were also great. A lot did not make sense such as the galaxy finding exegol a place impossible to get to. Like how did that happen?

    Chewie getting a medal at the end was embarrassing just because he never got one in ANH .. The 1997 MTV Movie awards dont count. There was no need for that or the implied idea that maybe lando was jannahs dad.

    What this movie did do for me is make me hope we get more movies set post TROS so its not the last word, as enjoyable as it was in places.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2021
    godisawesome likes this.
  7. -NaTaLie-

    -NaTaLie- Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 2001
    The answer is: it didn't I knew the trilogy was ruined after TFA which was already nihilistic in the way it treated the legacy characters and zero story setup. TLJ was the nail in the coffin.
     
  8. maranatusIX

    maranatusIX Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 9, 2021
    Good evening.
    TROS was the movie that helped me consider keeping the ST in my head canon.
    While the references are few and far between.
    It's the only movie in the ST that tried to include something from both the previous trilogies.
    TLJ, yes did mention Sidous. Really didn't do much for both trilogies...
     
    Awushi Awere likes this.
  9. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2003
    In TLJ, Snoke shows Rey images of the Resistance ships being destroyed while fleeing to Crait. Rey gets angry and takes up Kylo Ren’s lightsaber.

    “Oh! Still that firey spit of hope. You have the spirit of a true Jedi! And because of that, you must die”

    Exact same situation in ROS:

    The roof opens over the chamber on Exegol. And Palpatine uses it to convince Rey to complete a Sith ritual.

    There’s not a whole lot of cohesion.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  10. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval Head Admin & TV Screaming Service star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    ... and then she still goes and picks up the lightsaber to go to Pasana immediately after all the meaningless drivel about "earning" it. Her trial for it apparently was to make it to the next scene in the film.
     
  11. DarkGingerJedi

    DarkGingerJedi Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2012
    TROS did not affect my view of the ST films, except for confirming that view.
     
  12. Daxon101

    Daxon101 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 7, 2016
    Its funny. for me, TROS just about made the ST work. kinda, just about.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2021
  13. Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid

    Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2014
    Wait… that actually makes sense doesn’t it? Palpatine is banking on Rey repeating the same reaction she had earlier, only this time he would use the reaction to further his own plan. It’s the same way Palpatine got Luke to repeat getting angry like he did when Vader threatened Leia years later to get angry with Ben Solo.
     
  14. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2003
    My problem is that Snoke equates an angry attempt to kill him with the spirit of a Jedi and cause to kill her, when with Anakin, Luke and Rey (in RoS) it’s most certainly not treated as a Jedi quality and is seen as an opportunity to turn them.

    Snoke knew she was powerful, having beaten Kylo with no training, and is now trying to strike him down in anger.

    Palpatine jumps at these qualities and sees opportunity to turn her. Snoke - Palpatine’s creation - only sees the unyielding spirit of a Jedi.

    Then you get the added layer that Palpatine made Snoke, but then how aware was he of the events of TFA and TLJ, because there seemed to be no unifying goal between the two.

    Palpatine wants a powerful Force wielder to kill him in anger and declare themselves a Sith.

    Snoke’s just kind of doing his own thing, seemingly unaware of Rey’s bloodline and wants her dead for being too much of a Jedi, when I felt the foreshadowing of TFA was that he was going to turn her and that Han’s prediction of Kylo being betrayed by Snoke once he had what he wanted would come to pass with Snoke trying to get a Rey to replace Kylo.

    But nope…


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  15. Darthvader1975

    Darthvader1975 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    May 2, 2020
    We did have recruiting for the resistance but offscreen. During the battle of exegol the ordinary citizens of the galaxy turn up lead by Lando. How they found it is beyond me but they were there adding to Resistance numbers.
     
  16. Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid

    Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2014
    I’m not sure Snoke - aka Palpatine’s avatar - is reliable as a narrator. He maybe messing with Rey or that’s really how Palpatine views the Jedi. After all Luke tried to strike him down, and so did Mace Windu.


    Is Snoke his own person or is he a meat puppet Palpatine controls from afar? When we hear Snoke speak is that Palpatine doing a wizard of Oz thing?

    So my question is does Snoke have his own mind or is he Palpatine?
     
  17. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2003
    He was his own person. However, when Palpatine says he is every voice Kylo has ever heard inside his head, it suggests Palpatine was watching events from afar and aware of everything.

    Now they’re going to release a new book next year, the synopsis of which explains that Rey was considered key to the return of the Sith and hence Ochi is sent after her.

    Snoke has found her, Kylo is being made to kill her, and Palpatine is allowing it to happen. There is a mismatch between their goals which makes it odd as to why Snoke exists in the first place.

    Had Palpatine been Snoke in TLJ, he would have achieved everything he wanted. Having Snoke seems an unnecessary stand in whose existence was never justified in the films, made even more complicated by the fact that he’s a creation of Palpatine that exists outside of Palpatine’s control and whose goals conflict with Palpatine’s.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2021
  18. Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid

    Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2014
    I did not know that.

    I thought every word Snoke speaks is really Palpatine speaking. And I thought Snoke pitting Kylo against Rey was a test to find their potential abilities. If they couldn’t kill Snoke then they weren’t worth becoming Sith.


    It makes much less sense to me if Snoke has is his own mind,
     
  19. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2003
    Somebody on this site in one of the other topics said it in mentioned in the novelization or visual dictionary. Correct me if I’m wrong. I haven’t read either.

    However every other clone seen is an independent person. Unless a source comes along explicitly saying Snoke was a body-puppet, I won’t assume otherwise.

    His wookieepedia article recounts a loot of info on him with cited sources, and while it doesn’t explicitly say whether or not he’s independent, a lot of his actions imply he has a mind of his own as he’s tracking down ancient lore and learning about the Force as opposed to having it inherent (if he were a puppet).


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  20. Daxon101

    Daxon101 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 7, 2016
    I believe it was said that Snoke wasn't just a puppet. He was his own person. I bet Snoke was a hybrid of the 2. His own person. But like the clones for example. Fake free will. Palpatine had his way of controlling Snoke. So Snoke was always under Palpatine's influence. After all what else was Palpatine doing while stuck to his armchair?

    There is no point like thinking Snoke was too much his own person. We seen Clones of him on example. we know Snoke likely only existed because of Palpatine. Palpatine wasn't just creating snoke for the sake of creating life.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2021
  21. Darthvader1975

    Darthvader1975 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    May 2, 2020
    I really believed Snoke was created to lead the First Order while Palpatine waited patiently on Exegol building up his army. He also acted as a mentor to Ben (see The Rise Of Kylo Ren) who manipulated him in the same way Palpatine manipulated his grandfather. Snoke was the face of the Order and I think had a certain amount of control but Palpatine could reel him in if needed. Palps also knew that his granddaughter was extremely powerful and used Snoke and Ren to bring her into the fold and be the true sith heir. Rey is key to the Sith revival because she is the granddaughter of perhaps the greatest ever Sith.

    The fight in TLJ in the throne room proved to palpatine just how powerful Rey was and I dont think was overly pushed that Snoke died. He was expendable. With Ren now in charge at least in the surface the hope was to have Rey join the fold and take Palps place as Sith heir but Rey obviously fought against that and ultimately killed the clone of palps and on the surface end the sith in the galaxy....

    yeah right....

    Thinking of it like this makes TLJ throne room scene more believable and we know why Snoke was taken out so easily. He wasnt, Palps just let it play out that way. Snokes role was done. Rey and Ren fighting alongside each other even if Rey went her own way until the end when they reunited (after two further battles at least) to work against Palpatine.
     
  22. DarkGingerJedi

    DarkGingerJedi Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2012
    It's more than just influence though because Palpatine was Snoke's voice. He was every voice inside Ben's head. Soooo...if he's talking as Snoke, and controlling his cloned puppet, even one who has occasional free will, why does Snoke not know Rey is Palpatine's granddaughter. Snoke was ready to kill Rey. If Rey is that important to Palpatine, and returning to life/whatever, why let his puppet even attempt to kill her, or believe she's just a scavenger.

    You can retcon it all you want, and I appreciate it that you like it and have found a way to make it work for you...but this is sloppy writing, and even worse planning.

    PS: Is there a way to get all the little red lines under everyone's names (and other misspellings) to go away? I'm using Chrome. Cuz this is annoying lol.
     
  23. Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid

    Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2014
    …..
    It makes perfect sense to me without retconning. Being a Sith is all about survival of the fittest. Palpatine doesn’t care Rey is his granddaughter - he only cares if she has power and skills that help him. He lets the puppet attempt to kill her as a test. If Snoke succeeded in killing Rey she wasn’t strong enough to serve Palpatine’s needs.
     
  24. Darthvader1975

    Darthvader1975 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    May 2, 2020
    In your setting you should be able to turn off spelling and grammar.

    Palpatine wanted Snoke to kill or try to kill Rey to test her abilities. If she died she wasnt worth recruiting, if she lived she proved herself as a worthy heir. Remember this is the Sith they will sacrifice anyone for the bigger picture. How do we know Snoke doesnt know rey is palpatines grandaughter? I ask this because how does Ren know she is? Someone told him. So it had to have been Palpatine through Snoke.
     
    DarkGingerJedi likes this.
  25. Darthvader1975

    Darthvader1975 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    May 2, 2020
    Snap. See my post