main
side
curve
  1. Welcome to the new boards! Details here!

  2. The Boards Are Now Reopened For Business:

    READ THIS: your ability to post here depends upon it.. See the new rules thread here. Bans can and will be handed out to anyone who doesn't abide by the forum rules.

ST How TROS Recontextualizes The Sith

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by EntechednReformatted, Jan 4, 2020.

  1. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2015
    And since Vader was destroyed by Anakin there was no Sith host body. Therefore, Sidious should have been destroyed too.
     
    afrojedi and Jedi_Fenrir767 like this.
  2. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of New Films star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    He was destroyed. The Sith Eternal created a new body for him and resurrected his spirit through Sith alchemy.
     
  3. Jedi_Fenrir767

    Jedi_Fenrir767 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2013
    Just my opinion but I will quote Count Dooku from the original clone wars animated series. “You are not Sith” whatever they hell was in this movie was not Sith they may have been called Sith or Sith Cultista etc. They definitely aren’t the ones from the PT or OT. They are just fan fiction at this point.
     
    afrojedi, wobbits and DominusNovus like this.
  4. Aximili86

    Aximili86 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2018
    Good to know. Evidently Ian feels differently.
     
  5. Jedi_Fenrir767

    Jedi_Fenrir767 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2013
    Ian’s an Actor when it comes to what the Sith are etc the only real voice of authority is GL. New films can and will change them over time if they so chose to the detriment of World Building and consistency IMO. We got TROS in IX that throws so much Sith stuff at us after VII and VII were like no Sith they are gone it’s now just a jumbled mess.
     
    afrojedi and DominusNovus like this.
  6. DominusNovus

    DominusNovus Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2017
    But if the master’s essence is transferred, then it doesn’t matter how wise, powerful, or skilled the victorious apprentice is. Yes, it would be best to always have the most powerful one as the successor, but when they’re imbued with all the power of the Sith before them, what difference does it make? Beyond that, better to have a mediocre successor than none at all. Beyond that, if struck down by a less than ideal apprentice, said apprentice can just be struck down by a more suitable one at any point after. 30 years or 30 seconds later.

    The ritual itself, if its just an occasional thing, something very difficult, that only the most powerful/desperate Sith can do, works. But if it involves “all the Sith” it doesn’t even remotely fit.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020
    Jedi_Fenrir767 likes this.
  7. Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid

    Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2014
    Is the apprentice imbued with all the power of Sith or just all the knowledge of the Sith? The apprentice has to supply the power themselves???
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020
  8. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    That Sith agent had the best looking gold car I've ever seen.
     
  9. Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid

    Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2014

    ???????????

    :confused:
     
  10. Aximili86

    Aximili86 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2018

    Yeah. And Ian has respect enough for George that he wouldn't have agreed to do it if he'd felt it was pooping all over the Big Man's parade.
     
  11. Jedi_Fenrir767

    Jedi_Fenrir767 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2013
    That's an assumption that your making and has no basis in fact.
     
    afrojedi and DominusNovus like this.
  12. DominusNovus

    DominusNovus Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2017
    I honestly don’t know. That said, it doesn’t matter. If the apprentice has all their knowledge but only mediocre innate abilities, they just stick around more powerful Sith and insult their mother until the more powerful Sith kills them in anger. Bam, now they’ve possessed that more powerful Sith.

    Which, again, proves that having a large number of Sith around is a net gain, when you have this ability. The Sith are no longer a threat to themselves.
     
    Jedi_Fenrir767 likes this.
  13. Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid

    Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2014
    If the Sith Lord is that weak how are they going to deal with Jedi and other potential enemies that might actually destroy them?

    And if this is the time when the Sith are hidden, could someone that weak conceal their presense in the Force from the Jedi?
     
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  14. Aximili86

    Aximili86 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2018


    Ah, okay. I guess the fact is more likely Ian's just like "**** that George guy! I'm up for anything so long as I get paid".

    #2019.
     
  15. DominusNovus

    DominusNovus Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2017
    If there are plenty of other Sith, why would this individual ever put themselves in a situation where the Jedi are likely to kill them?
     
  16. Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid

    Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2014
    Yoda got the drop on Palpatine in RotS and snuck into his office. Jedi are a formidable foe. And why would the other Sith protect another Sith that is too weak to defend themself from a Jedi?
     
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  17. DominusNovus

    DominusNovus Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Thats not really comparable. Palpatine was executing his master plan at that point and had revealed his identity to the Jedi to goad them into attacking him.

    And why would the other Sith need to protect this one? The whole point is to get one of them to kill this particular one. You’re not addressing that, you’re treating the situation as though they’re just mixing and mingling with Jedi on Coruscant or something, rather than hiding away on Korriban or some other Sith world.

    This isn’t that complicated: the Sith Lord in question transfers their essence, decides they don’t like their new host, and goes over and attacks one of the other Sith nearby and throws the fight. This is something that would take a few minutes.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020
    Jedi_Fenrir767 likes this.
  18. Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid

    Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2014
    Why would a weak Sith have been the Sith Master to begin with? Why would generations of Sith spirts waste their time?
     
  19. Jedi_Fenrir767

    Jedi_Fenrir767 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2013
    Most actors are and most people are. Also do you think George would tell him not to take the job if Disney offered him some serious cash. George have been pissed at him coming back but why deny your friend work. You are making a lot of assumptions we have no idea what happened between Ian and George and how he feels about how GL feels about the Sith in TLJ. I am not assuming anything i am just saying that a guy taking a roll doesn’t mean jack.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020
  20. Aximili86

    Aximili86 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2018
    You do you, man.
     
  21. DominusNovus

    DominusNovus Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2017
    That doesn’t address the scenario. Darth Chiznuk proposed a group of Sith ganging up on the master in question, and a weak Sith striking the killing blow.

    Of course, this presupposes they’d have weak Sith.
     
  22. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of New Films star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    I mean you can say that about any doctrine though. Why didn't they do this instead? Like all of us in the real world Darth Bane was shaped by the environment he grew up in. He became a Sith at a time when the order almost became extinct because of constant in fighting amongst its members. In response to that he developed a philosophy that only the absolute strongest Sith deserved to survive and all others should perish. He of course believed he himself was the strongest and to make sure that it continued to be the strongest that survived past him he decided to take on only a single apprentice.

    Seriously if you haven't done so read the Bane trilogy because it goes into all this stuff and more. It's no longer canon but it's the only source we have right now. Plus I'm sure new canon won't deviate too much.

    Edit: Also the idea that a group of weaker Sith ganging up on the the stronger one isn't my speculation. That comes straight from George.
     
  23. DominusNovus

    DominusNovus Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2017
    I've bolded the less compelling argument, for self evident reasons. The Disney Canon has been quite liberal with how much they deviate from the Old Canon. We can't argue based on the Old Canon, since this is a discussion of how the Disney Canon recontextualizes the Sith.

    None of this addresses the core problem: in what way is the old way of doing things, with many active Sith, more dangerous for the Sith as a whole, than Bane's new way, when the idea of transferring essence is taken into account as a practice standard enough that Palpatine could claim to be 'all the Sith' generations later? Each scenario presented is just as dangerous to the Sith when there are only two as when there are many.
     
  24. Daxon101

    Daxon101 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 7, 2016
    Personally i ain't sure what TROS said about the sith.
     
  25. Jedsithor

    Jedsithor Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 1, 2005
    What spirit? The Sith can't maintain a connection to the Living Force once they die. In fact I'm pretty sure their essence is completely destroyed and don't even become part of the Cosmic Force. This is why they're obsessed with cheating death. The Jedi know that, at a minimum, they'll become one with the Force as most ordinary life does and in a few special cases, with training and dedication to selflessness, they can maintain their connection to the Living Force, hence Force Ghosts. It's their reward for being committed to the Light.

    Palpatine's return not only completely undermines Anakin's final act of redemption and the completion of the prophecy, it completely destroys any notion that the Dark Side isn't stronger than the Light because now we have a situation where the best of the Jedi can return as ghosts but the best of the Sith can return as actual living beings.

    It's utterly ridiculous.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020