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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Humor... Return to Sanity(Discussion/Challenge/Index)* Sep 22, *New Topic/Challenge*

Discussion in 'Fan Fiction and Writing Resource' started by Son_of_Nut, May 30, 2006.

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  1. WyoJedi

    WyoJedi Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 7, 2005
    Oh come now JP... you are much funnier than I. I think my mouth is stuck in a permanent smile from laughing so hard at your humor :D See?

    But it is a lot of fun to try the team writing thing for this!

    Cheers,
    Wyo
     
  2. Jade_Pilot

    Jade_Pilot Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2005
    JP: Nah...you're funnier!

    Wyo: No, you're funnier!

    JP: No way, you're way funnier....

    Knock it off you two!!!
     
  3. The Great No One

    The Great No One Jedi Grand Master star 8

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2005
    *chuckles* i'll be looking forward to that one you two.

    and yodimus, i stink at puns, and wordplay in general. i still appreciate it a lot however.

    you must find that fic, that's for sure.
     
  4. 1Yodimus_Prime

    1Yodimus_Prime Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2004
    I fear it may be lost in the oft clogged, easily deletable pipes of internet world. I don't have it in any word files, so the only way to track it down would be to scour ( or scoure, or skower, or ...search in a thorough manner) message boards of my past and see if I stumble upon it. I think at that point, it would be easier (and probably better) if I just rewrote it.

    Oh, and as for the horrible pun I made up, Ms. Lanna: I don't know if the whole Martha Stewart scandal thing came anywhere close to Germany, but that was my inspiration. Otherwise, think "the stock market/illegal stuff done with". I'd tell you outright, but I'd hate to ruin the groan for ya. ;)

     
  5. Jade_Pilot

    Jade_Pilot Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2005
  6. anakin_luver

    anakin_luver Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 26, 2005
  7. Son_of_Nut

    Son_of_Nut Jedi Master

    Registered:
    Feb 8, 2006
    Great job you three. I really, really enjoyed those.

    Seeing as the discussion for this has sort of run it's course, or so it would appear to be the case, I'm going to put up a new topic.




    I think moving to situational humor might not be a bad idea. What do you think about it? How do you go about setting it up? How do you create anticipation for it without giving things away? How does it differ from physical humor? What situations are inapproriate to use? Are there any? How is it similar? What are some of your fav examples of it?

    More questions may be forthcoming.

    For myself, situational humor kind of just flows without having to set it up. If I try for it, it kinda dies on me. I do enjoy it, when it's well executed, but that's the trick. If you push to hard with it then the whole thing kind of blows up on you. This can ruin the whole story, not just a section of it. But that's true of most types of humor, it can be a good idea... or seem to be, and then blow up in your face when others read it. I don't really know how to balance things, but I seem to do so. If anyone has a more technical approach to it, I would appreciate knowing what it is that I do, and how to refine it.

    Concerning the appropriateness, I think it depends on the audience, as well as how well you know the characters. If you manage to keep it in character, then there really isn't an offlimits situation, if it's handled tastefully. Han is a good example of this, as he can bring humor into almost any situation just because of his attitude, even if that humor isn't precisely appropriate it can still fit very, very well because of who Han is. Lando is another example, of a rather different sort altogether. Lando can be too smooth at times, thus creating a situation that can be hilarious. Capturing that smoothness can be something of a problem though.

    What do you think?


    ~Trimaj
     
  8. Jade_Pilot

    Jade_Pilot Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2005
    Ah...situational humor. [face_thinking]

    To me this is the type of humor that comes from your character's perspective on the environment or circumstances around them. It can give information to your readers about your character's way of thinking, belief systems or even social customs and mores.

    Having said that...there still must be a connection of some kind between the character and the reader in order for the reader to empathize with whatever situation is happening.

    If the reader cannot relate, it is hard for him to put himself in the character's shoes.

    I find that it's this connection that tickles the funny bone the most.

    For example (shamelessly quoting a recent co-fic with WyoJedi here):

    Anakin tried to figure out just what was going through Padme?s head. His own mind was reeling just sitting this close to her, and he hoped his affections were shared. ?If you are suffering as much as I am, tell me.?

    Well this bodice is a little tight, thought Padme, struggling to take a deep breath. But one must be willing to suffer a little for the sake of fashion, after all. Oh, Stars! He?s waiting for an answer??Anakin, I can?t?we can?t. It?s just not possible...? ?to breathe in this blasted ensemble.

    The humor we were aiming for was what most people were already thinking about during this fireside scene in AOTC. Padme was wearing a ridiculously tight bodice and saying to Anakin "go away big boy."

    Without the reader having had similar thoughts themselves it would've fallen flat and made no connection. The humor here is when it becomes an "inside" joke between the reader and the writer.

    My, how I have gone on....;)
     
  9. DaenaBenjen42

    DaenaBenjen42 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 15, 2005
    Situational humor centers around an event, whereas physical humor centers mostly around an action or a body movement. They can be used concurrently.
     
  10. anakin_luver

    anakin_luver Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 26, 2005
    Good points all of you. I think I see what you're saying there Jade_Pilot. That the reader needs to already understand the character, the environment, the atmosphere in order to laugh about this sort of humor. If I'm wrong with the interpretation, then sorry about that! But that's how I think of it as.

    I'm writing a longer humor fic at the moment, and the readers already know how I portray Anakin in my fic, so when they see that situational humor appear, it makes more sense. I usually have a bigger idea in my head about what silly thing is going to happen and then add a whole bunch of other silly things usually concerning the environment or interaction with two characters or a charcter and the environment itself. Those little things just come when I'm writing, actually most things do come like that for me! I feel thinking too hard about making something funny may ruin it a tad...but it may work for others!

    Yes, I am a rambling mess today, for sure!
     
  11. 1Yodimus_Prime

    1Yodimus_Prime Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2004
    concerning Situational vs. Physical humor:
    I'm gonna start with Nut's opening, "situational humor kind of just flows without having to set it up."
    and the running theme of this discussion so far has been that 'letting it happen' seems to work better than thinking about it. This is an important trait of Situational Humor. Because - like Jade said - it's a form of comedy that's linked very closely with culture. It's all about overstepping an unspoken social rule or forcing a faux pas. We know these things inherently, rather than intellectually. Therefore it comes to us better on its own.

    Physical humor, on the other hand, works better when it's given careful thought. It is more technical, because it happens isolated of the culture around it. So Daena is quite right. But not only can they be used concurrently, they should Look at most sitcoms: if you were to turn off the sound, you'd fall asleep from boredom. They're all sit, no phiz. This is because of that 'no thinking hard' rule. It's just easier for writers to pour out situational humor minus the harder to construct physical humor. This is too bad, because the two compliment each other very well. The best filmic comedies will often employ a careful balance of the two.

     
  12. MsLanna

    MsLanna Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 2005
    I like situational humour that comes from the readers knowing more than the characters.
    In SW that can be easy, because most fans have quite some background. So it is easy to take a character, let her crash on Dagobah and then, confronted with Yoda, let her think 'Annoying- yes, dangerous - no.'
    I get a laugh out of situations like that.[face_not_talking]

    Or take a stupid idea and make it happen, with all those annoying stuff that would happen in RL. Has nobody ever wondered how Stormtrooper go to the loo? I mean I can't see the secret door in their armour.
    Or being Jabba. How would that wor, he can't move much, try to see him running from somebody, preferrably in a city full of obstacles.[face_mischief]
     
  13. BrentusofGath

    BrentusofGath Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 12, 2005
    Um... maybe I'm the black sheep here, (surprise surprise) but aren't all things... um... situations?

    If you have a guy walking toward the edge of a cliff, and he's juggling pies so he doesn't see the edge... and then he just happens to stop at the edge, causing a bit of the cliff to crumble onto the head of a girl resting beneath the tree at the bottom of the steep drop... and then, curious, the girl gets up and looks up, just as the guy finally looks down and notices his precarious predicament... and he misses one of the pies and she gets a pumpkin pie facial... then she stumbles back, slamming into the tree with such force that it shakes the branches in the face of guy, who is very ticklish... and he sneezes and gets a pumpkin pie facial of his own before tumbling into the tree, bouncing from branch to branch until THUD... both guy and girl meet in a lump at the bottom of the tree...

    Well, isn't that all a situation? Even though it's physical comedy?

    Everything, from drama and tragedy to comedy and suspense, all art in general, relies on situation for the art to come about. If Van Gogh hadn't been a nut, could he have painted all that stuff? :p If Kurt Cobain hadn't been a musical genius, could he have displaced Michael Jackson from the top of the charts? :confused: I forgot my point. [face_thinking] Anyway, genius is important in situations, yeah, that's what I was talking about. ?? :confused:

    :p
     
  14. The Great No One

    The Great No One Jedi Grand Master star 8

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2005
    you bring out a point i was waiting for brentus. everything is a situation, hence you can work humor into just about any situation. this begs the question, are there any situations that aren't appropriate for humor?


    on another note, i'll have another challenge in the near future for those interested.
     
  15. DaenaBenjen42

    DaenaBenjen42 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 15, 2005
    It's kinda like Charlie Chaplan and that anecdote about someone getting hit with a bag of wet cement. From twenty feet away, it's funny as heck, but get close enough to see the pain, and it's not funny any more. The trick is turning it around so you can show both the pain and the humor in it.
     
  16. BrentusofGath

    BrentusofGath Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 12, 2005
    Anything and anyone can be made humorous, it's all in who views it. There are plenty of overly "sensitive" people who just want to sound important by shouting that some humor is distasteful. No, no humor is distasteful, it's the people who complain about it who are distasteful.

    True or not, the man considered the most evil in the world is Adolf Hitler. But there have been some marvelously funny comedies centered around him or a Hitler-esqe character. Chaplain did it, the Three Stooges did it, the Marx Brothers did it, Hogan's Heroes made people laugh about the whole idea of WWII...

    ...and if you've seen it, my personal favorite is the Hilter skit from Monty Python's Flying Circus: A couple come to North Minehead (somewhere in England) to a hostel where they meet another of the guests, Mr. Hilter, his friend, Mr. Bimmler, and Ron Vibbentrop (the German foreign minister Von Ribbentrop or something). It's just so hilarious because it's like what if Hitler survived and escaped to England. He's on the ballot for the North Minehead bi-election as the National Bocialist candidate. They have a clip of a man in the street saying, "I don't like the sound of these here, 'boncentration bamps'." And then you see Mr. Hilter giving a speech to a crowd of one hick and a couple of kids. It's just marvelous! [face_laugh]

    So no, I don't think any topic is out of bounds for comedy. It's strictly a POV thing as to whether it's funny or not. Most comedy is POV funny/not funny.
     
  17. The Great No One

    The Great No One Jedi Grand Master star 8

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2005
    very true brentus, but the reader/viewer also has to have an open mind for things of that nature to evern vaguely begin to work.

    my apoliges all, my mind has been completely elsewhere. new topic coming tommorow.

    ~Trimaj
     
  18. Son_of_Nut

    Son_of_Nut Jedi Master

    Registered:
    Feb 8, 2006
    Alrighty, I think it's time for a new challenge, as well as a new disucussion topic.

    First...

    New Discussion Topic

    Humor in Dialogue, or the Gift of Gab.

    What do you think about this? How do you go about it? Are there any specific characters you find this is easiest to work with (doesn't have to be SW)? What characters are the hardest for you? What are the limits to it, i.e. when is enough, enough? How do you push those limits? Is there an inapporpriate use of this?





    [b]New Challenge[/b]

    The idea for this one was supplied by MsLanna

    The Rumor Mill

    Pick two characters, or more, even cross timelines if you want, and have one of them have heard a rumor about the other. The other has no clue what?s going on, and hasn?t heard a anything about said rumor. The first person, who has heard, is not sure how to present it to person two.

    OR

    Have the person who has heard the rumor come down on the one who hasn't, and the one who hasn't has no clue what's going on.

    [color=red][i]~Trimaj[/i][/color]
     
  19. Jade_Pilot

    Jade_Pilot Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2005
    Humor in Dialogue

    And now we come to it...my very favorite writing device - DIALOGUE! I love witty banter, plays on words, puns and "ping-pong" conversations.

    Dialogue, at times, can be easy and then like pulling teeth. But I love it and am hard pressed not to use it in my fics. I can, I just prefer to use it. ;)

    I love to savor humor in dialogue and will read it over and over again. I believe timing is key, as well as, believability. Would a character actually say that line? It may be funny, but is it genuine?

    There are so many marvelous dialogue writers here! And I have seen some members use that dialogue in their signatures...what better compliment is there?
     
  20. Son_of_Nut

    Son_of_Nut Jedi Master

    Registered:
    Feb 8, 2006
    Again, my apoligies for not updating the title. Had a computer malfunction... and don't know how long I'll be out. If MsLanna or Daena could make sure things keep going smoothly til I get it fixed I would really appreciate it.

    Agreed Jade, very fully. How believable something is, is likely the biggest aspect of this whole topic. If saying something just cause it's funny doesn't fit in with anything else the character's said in even the book your writing/reading then it kinda ruins the whole thing to a certain extent. If it's in a series, such as SW, it might be a little more forgivable, but it'll also be far more noticable because you've had the oportunity to really get to know the character.

    ~Trimaj
     
  21. Jade_Pilot

    Jade_Pilot Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2005
    Anyone doing the rumor challenge?
     
  22. MsLanna

    MsLanna Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 2005
    *pokes head in carefully and gets hit by the full load of cakes and tomatoes*

    Soryy I wasn't here latey, I was on holiday. OK, I put it in my sig, but that doesn't get around a lot if you're off and not posting. I think I'll have to reconsider that system.:oops:

    Humourous dialouge!
    Kills me if it's executed well. My personal God of humorous dilogue isBilndMan. Fortunately he was one of the first wuthors I stumbled over here on tfn, and I read the 'Monologues' (which are actually dialouge all the way) in a day.
    I love his deadpan (right word, come on help a poor foreign speaker out with some vocabulary about the topic[face_batting] ) retorts a hilarious and the way he manages to insert the scenes into the movies add a load of situational humour.

    Did we already find out that humour seems to work best, when it does not come alone, but in a combination of situation, dialouge and physical?
     
  23. Jade_Pilot

    Jade_Pilot Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2005
    MsLanna,

    I checked out the MV and the dialogue is hysterical! Loved it. Deadpan is exactly the word I would use.
     
  24. MsLanna

    MsLanna Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 2005
    He's great, just bad luck I can't spell any. Sorry BlindMan.:oops:

    I wonder if we could take a bit and analyze why it is actually so funny?
    I find it hard to get anything concrete together without referring to something...
     
  25. 1Yodimus_Prime

    1Yodimus_Prime Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2004
    A few things strike me immediately:

    The character of Anakin. In the scenario Blindman has come up with, Anakin is about as safe as it's possible to make someone: you can't hurt him, you can't theoretically kill him, and most importantly, he seems to know it. This instantaneously gives him the comedic high ground. Pair this with the fact that he's playing foil to Vader. It's like a double-whammy. You end up with stuff like
    Then there's the character of Vader. Blindman tries to keep him serious but he allows Vader to break character when it's convenient, which turns out to be rather frequently. So we end up with more of an Adult Swim villain, wherein he's just as likely to be saying (thinking)mundane things as your overweight nextdoor neighbor in the beater is. For instance:
    - He could have easily kept Vader in character there and fought with an I.C. joke, but instead he took the easy way out. And sometimes, quite frankly, the easy way is also the funnier way.


    There's also a fair amount of observational humor thrown in. Take:
    for example. You can't help but smile when Anakin identifies that - take away the powers and the throne - yes, Palps is just as Crotchety as anyone else over seventy. And he does it efficiently, which helps. "Long winded" never has quite the potential for hilarity that "quick 'n dirty" has.


    So that's my broad sweeping first-impression of 'why it works'. There's a lot more there to look at which I haven't seen, and there's still a lot to study out of what I already have. But the groundwork is there. This stuff wasn't funny on accident, that's for sure.
     
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