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Saga I do not like the concept of the chosen one

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Lord Sith Harloxzz, Aug 10, 2018.

  1. Lord Sith Harloxzz

    Lord Sith Harloxzz Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 27, 2016
    I think it was a dumb idea that Anakin was a Jesus Christ who was born without a father
    I feel like it's something that does not fit with Star Wars
    The worst thing is that Lucas never specified well what the prophecy was about
    The balance of the force? but what balance? the destruction of the Sith? but how?

    How to kill Sidious was going to eradicate the destruction of all the Sith?
    Well we know that Episode VI was going to be the end of the saga but now that Disney has made more movies I think this idea is very ambiguous by the appearance of Kylo Ren and Snoke and the future villains that will appear after 9

    Why Luke was not chosen too? if he was the one who destroyed the original Empire?
    Why Palpatine was not a chosen one if he was very powerful and destroyed the Jedi?

    Vader is a great character but he never need to have a prophecy in my opinion
    The prophecy only worked if we took Episode 6 as the true end of Star Wars

    But now that there are more stories on the way, it is very difficult for the prophecy to be fulfilled 100%. It is very difficult for Disney to want the most iconic Star Wars villains that are the Sith to disappear just for a silly prophecy that Lucas never explained.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
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  2. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    It’s been thoroughly explained by GL in interviews, but I get that you want it explained in the movies.
    FWIW, no one says that balance is a fixed, permanent thing - or that the ways of the Sith could never be revived...


    From a Time Magazine interview in 2002:
    There’s GL’s definition of balance. It’s all about the tension between light and dark; the eternal struggle between two equal and opposite forces.
    Through the efforts of the Sith, the dark side gained the upper hand and Anakin’s job was to even out the odds.

    This isn’t spelled out in the movies, but I definitely feel that it still rings true in the ST, with Maz’s speech about the fight against evil that keeps returning in different forms and Luke’s observation that “for many years, there was balance”.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
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  3. CaptainCrunch2007

    CaptainCrunch2007 Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2007
     
  4. CaptainCrunch2007

    CaptainCrunch2007 Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2007
    I still think that Luke was deluded when he felt there was balance. If there was it was a false balance because he seemed to be surprised at how the dark side rose so quickly.

    In his later bitter years, I do believe that he stumbled onto the truth.
     
  5. Sith Lord 2015

    Sith Lord 2015 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 30, 2015
    To be completely frank, I never liked the concept that much either.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2018
    Lt. Hija likes this.
  6. VadersLaMent

    VadersLaMent Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 3, 2002
    I didn't mind the concept I just hated that they had to keep saying the phrase over and over in the film. They never needed to say it, we get it.
     
  7. Deliveranze

    Deliveranze Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2015
    I just hate the PT in general.
     
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  8. darth bangkok

    darth bangkok Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2018
    The problem with the phrase is it implies he's going to fix the balance once and for all. But as been pointed out, it's only the latest imbalance that he's setting straight and eventually it will be out of balance again.
     
  9. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    He wasn't.

    Yes, he did. The movies show the dark side rising and taking over the light. Balance means to end the cause of said rise: the Sith.

    The Sith are Sidious and Vader. Anakin killed both: Sidious and his Vader persona.

    That's a problem Disney caused, not Lucas with the concept of the Chosen One.

    He wasn't. He never did such thing. He was the catalyst for Anakin's return. Luke was never conceived by midi-chlorians, he didn't destroy the Sith and he didn't bring balance to the Force, therefore he couldn't be the Chosen One.

    Destroying the Jedi is the opposite of bringing balance.

    Bait removed. /heels

    So now what Disney decided to do is Lucas' fault? What kind of logic is that?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 13, 2018
  10. heels1785

    heels1785 JCC/PT/New Films Manager star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2003
    Reminder.

    This is a forum dedicated to the discussion of the Prequel Trilogy. Bashing of other trilogies and/or Disney is not appropriate, and will earn bans.
     
    cubman987 likes this.
  11. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    There was balance to the Force, once the Sith were destroyed. There was no delusion on Luke's part. The war was over, the Sith were extinct and things had improved. That's balance.

    Christ has the better press agent. He's not the only one who has the exclusive on prophesied saviors, born of divinity to stop a great evil. The balance between good and evil is disrupted by the rise of the Sith and the beginning of the Clone Wars. Palpatine manipulates two sides of a war, creating a blurred line between good and evil and that disrupts the balance.

    The Sith are dead, because there were only two of them. A Master and an Apprentice. The Apprentice killed the Master and died himself, shortly afterwards. Snoke and Ben Solo are not Sith Lords. The Knights of the Ren are not the same as the Sith Order. They're not as well versed in the dark side, nor as powerful as the Sith. If Palpatine was there, he would have killed the both of them easily.

    Luke was never the Chosen One. Luke doesn't destroy the Empire. The Empire surrenders one year after the Battle of Endor and are located elsewhere in the galaxy.

    There was no prophecy on the Sith side.
     
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  12. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2011
    The Chosen One must be conceived by the midi-chlorians. The Chosen One is also destined to destroy the Sith. There's no evidence that Palpatine was conceived by the midi-chlorians, and he is far from the one most actively responsible for the Sith's destruction, so he fails to meet the requirements of the prophecy.

    You might be able to stretch the prophecy to apply to Luke, given that he is in a sense descended from the midi-chlorians, which might explain why Obi-Wan believes Luke could be the true Chosen One (according to Rebels). But of course Luke turns out not to be the Chosen One, since he isn't the one who ultimately destroys the Sith. The prophecy really did refer to his father all along.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2018
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  13. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2013
    Not at all. That is a central mythic device.

    https://www.lawofattractiongps.com/not-just-jesus-other-virgin-births/

    According to academia, there are at least 32 stories of other virgin births in ancient cultures of bygone eras. The legends of the surrounding pagan cultures were so influential in the first century that the Early Church was forced to imitate and incorporate them to have their ‘new’ Christian religion accepted.

    Horus, Krishna, Buddha, Osiris, Mithra and Quetzalcoatl among others.

    I'd say that based on the way Star Wars works it'd be incomplete without it. Furthermore as Lucas has talked about if he had done the sequel trilogy he would have gone into the creation myth of his galaxy.

    For a larger overview I'd recommend this special from 1999 if you haven't seen it:

     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
  14. Dannik Jerriko

    Dannik Jerriko Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 12, 2017
    Initially, I found the idea of a chosen one somewhat daunting. Over time, I have gotten to appreciate Lucas' intention. What I like most is the ambiguity of the prophecy. We are never made privy to the wording or the context of the prophecy. We are also given reason to question the validity of the prophecy.

    It seems to me that Lucas invited his audience to make up their own minds on this concept. There is plenty of doubt from other characters. Qui-Gonn states that "It is possible he was conceived by the midi-chlorians". Whilst commenting on Anakin's messianic credentials, Yoda states "A prophecy that misread could have been".

    Palpatine also throws an interesting curve-ball on a night out at the Corouscant Opera when tells Anakin about his old pal Darth Plagueis, who "was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midichlorians to create life". We wonder if Anakin was created by the Sith, and if this was part of the prophecy all along.

    What I enjoy most about the prophecy of the chosen one is the freedom of interpretation that we have been given. Shmi Skywalker is a noble and selfless character who sacrifices her own feelings and gives her son up to the wider world (note the similarities with another religious figure). That said, we have only her account of Anakin's conception. Anakin does destroy the Sith and perhaps the balance was not immediate, but is something that will manifest in the future as a result of his actions. There is certainly plenty to chew over.
     
    Jedi Princess likes this.
  15. Nom von Anor

    Nom von Anor Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Oct 7, 2012
    I agree. I like the prequels, but I feel the story would be just fine without the whole prophecy thing. It's a little distracting and unnecessary imo.
     
  16. Count Yubnub

    Count Yubnub Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 1, 2012
    Straight outta Campbell
     
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  17. Merric

    Merric Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 26, 2013
    I personally like the concept. Star Wars has always been very fairytale-esque and the concept of a chosen one is as fairytail as it can get. Let us not forget that star wars began with a literal old and retired wizard sending a farm boy off to rescue a princess, running into pirates and walking dogs along the way.

    Also if that really bothers you, think of it like this. The story of Star Wars is actually just a story being told by someone who is very very very far off in the future who may or may not actually be over exaggerating everything to make it sound more interesting. I'm pretty certain that that's what Lucas had intended anyway.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2018
  18. DARTH_BELO

    DARTH_BELO Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2003

    The highlighted is how I've always seen it as well. I'll admit, I could've taken or left the whole prophecy/chosen one concept, but I never really had a problem with it per se. IMO if we take it from the viewpoint of the Chosen one being possibly Luke, rather than Anakin-or Luke and Anakin together-or perhaps even the Skywalker line (all of which technically came about by the will of the Force in the first place) it could be a more compelling idea. Maybe that's getting into headcanon territory, but I would love if at the end of the ST we found out that the Chosen One wasn't simply one Jedi, but this Skywalker lineage as a whole.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2018
  19. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2013
    That isn't the story though. It is Anakin and no one else.
     
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  20. Lord Sith Harloxzz

    Lord Sith Harloxzz Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 27, 2016
    Well, in a certain way it is a problem of both
    But, well, Disney can do anything now, since Lucas's words stopped being canon
     
  21. DARTH_BELO

    DARTH_BELO Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2003
    I get that. But read my 2nd sentence, highlighted above. I'm not saying that's what I think happened, but simply that I think it would be interesting if that's the route they take in any possible explorations of the "chosen one concept" in the future.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2018
  22. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    They don’t need to, though. The balance brought by Anakin was never established as eternal.
    The Skywalkers could be destined to guard the balance, of course, but that doesn’t change Anakin’s status as the Chosen One.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2018
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  23. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    "There is a hint in the movie that there was a Sith Lord who had the power to create life. But it's left unsaid: Is Anakin a product of a super-Sith who influenced the Midichlorians to create him, or is he simply created by the Midichlorians to bring forth a prophecy, or was he created by the Force through the Midichlorians? It's left up to the audience to decide. How he was born ultimately has no relationship to how he dies, because in the end, the prophecy is true: Balance comes back to the Force."

    --George Lucas, Rolling Stone Magazine, 2005.


    Balance occurred immediately as soon as Palpatine was dead and as Vader became Anakin again, before dying.

    Kennedy already said that they weren't changing the story. Anakin is the Chosen One and he brought balance. Luke even says it in TLJ.

    LUKE: "For many years there was balance."
     
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  24. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2013
    Exactly. The problem is that for whatever reason some people interpret it as all evil ever being destroyed which is clearly not the case. The point is very specific is that it's the cancer of these Sith and their actions that put the Force out of balance.

    Evil can still flourish (as can the Sith again if anyone would want to bring them back) but it's the Force being out of balance that is the key point. Obviously the Sith were around for thousands of years before that according to Lucas himself and had taken over the galaxy before (or terrorized it and taken over large sections) without the Force itself going out of balance.

    I get why many associate the direct connection of evil itself unbalancing the Force but if that were the case then the Jedi would hardly be skeptical of a Chosen One if they were some fairly common occurrence.

    The Jedi were there to keep the Force in balance as far as they could understand the term but the point of the prophecy is that there would be a time that they couldn't and a Chosen One who would do that would come forth. After than their duty would be to maintain that as best they could.

    Was there a Chosen One before Anakin at some point and could there be one again? Sure but as far as the story goes that being was not a Jedi nor did they being destroy the Sith but likely some other Dark side being or group.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2018
  25. Dannik Jerriko

    Dannik Jerriko Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 12, 2017
    Maybe you're right. I always thought of the restoration of the balance as having been a cumulative occurrence. Before the events of RotS, the Jedi were a bloated, complacent organisation who had unwittingly inveigled themselves into politics and galactic affairs. Up until this point, the Jedi had been lacking a suitable foil to keep them in check.

    With Anakin's turn to the dark side and the (general) success of Order 66, the reset button was pressed on the Jedi Order. This paved the way for a new Jedi Order to establish itself in the future.

    Of course, the Empire represented a huge imbalance, which was destroyed when Vader killed himself and Palpatine, thus ending the lineage of the Sith.

    Personally, I'm not entirely sure that I know what this balance looks like. Perhaps the events depicted in the ST do represent the galaxy at balance with the light and dark both vying for control and keeping each other in check.