Saga I do not like the concept of the chosen one

Yeah, I think that way too. But when you come to the Prequel Trilogy era (which is before the Dark Times) you need to give a title of chosen one just because for getting the attention of the entire Jedi Order.

Because ; The Jedi are too many. Over 1.000 thousand. Why we are we seeing the story of Anakin when he was a regular Force user? When you made him the Chosen One then you can justify the decision of focusing on Jedi Anakin in the Republic Era.

So Lucas had no other choice.

 

Lol, that sounds appropriate for SW.

 

Well, that's kind of the problem with these discussions now, isn't it? We have an original narrative created by George Lucas which is cohesive within a larger picture where plot details shift with the needs of the story but thematic concerns remain largely consistent, and then we have a continuation narrative created by other people who don't necessarily understand all the various ways the original narrative interlocks with itself and whose thematic goals are often at explicit odds with Lucas's. Treating these two narratives as one doesn't make much sense, yet we're now expected to do so merely because they share a brand name as a result of a corporate acquisition.

 

The Jedi being ten thousand strong at the start of the Saga has nothing to do with the idea of a Chosen One. It just means that he was the only one who was foreseen to be downfall of the Sith. Lucas came up with the idea of the Chosen One because he was falling back on the works of Campbell, but also an earlier idea that he had of a savior whose coming was foretold and he would help save the galaxy against the tide of evil.

Why would they not mesh? The main thrust of the story was Anakin falling to the dark side, coming back because of his son and ending the Sith. It was never said that other threats couldn't arise. The ST isn't perfect, but the basic themes are the same.

What the Jedi had become wasn't about balance to the Force, but about a consequence of becoming arrogant. That arrogance is what hurt them and would in turn hurt Palpatine.

The imbalance was that good and evil were blurred. The Republic became evil before becoming the Empire. The Confederacy was evil wrapped in the guise of goodness. Add all the death and destruction of war, the growing indifference and geed and fear, and the result is an imbalance.

That's what it always was. A push-pull tension. Yin and Yang.

 

The prophecy was the worst idea that ever hit SW. It was a popular theme in films at the time (Matrix etc) that Lucas rolled into the PT...same as the love story in AOTC because Titanic was so successful

 

The chosen trope is definitely an overused one, but I do think that it fits Star Wars considering the fantastical elements incorporated within the franchise. It's a trope that works best when being deconstructed. Harry Potter, Avatar: The Last Airbender and The Legend Of Korra, Buffy:The Vampire Slayer, The Lego Movie, and, yes, the Star Wars Prequels all succeed with the trope because they do something with interesting with it. The only time I've seen the chosen one storyline played straight and done well would be The Matrix and Moana (I barely count Aladdin because the incorporation of it is pretty dumb there).

Still, Anakin being the "chosen one" is interesting. He is the one that's meant to bring order/balance to the galaxy (or whatever the prophecy was) and he does so on both sides of the Force. I mean, he commits some pretty evil acts that coincide with the ideology of the Empire, who inspired order through fear. However, he also did some pretty heroic things too in his previous life as a Jedi Knight.

It's almost as if both sides of the Force chose him and his temperament for switching sides was akin to a child going back and forth between his divorced parents. He's a pretty complicated character, unlike his more virtuous and typically heroic chosen one counterparts. He's a true anti-hero-turned-villain-turned-back-to-hero. He's definitely not the best version I've seen of this type of character (that would be Prince Zuko), but he is the only one I can think of that's a "chosen one".

 

Lucas started writing 'The Beginning' officially in 1994 but obviously it had been rolling around in his imagination on and off for decades so it has nothing to do with popularity of other movies. That would be the kind of thing that happens with Hollywood corporate movies not Lucas' independent ones. If anything something like The Matrix was about people reacting to Star Wars as an overall mythology and trying to do the same sort of thing.

The "Chosen One" aspect itself is not new at all as it goes back to various versions of King Arthur. Luke himself is another variation on a Chosen One. Lucas' version was to use the prophecy which again is another long used device. So like everything else in Star Wars it's not about being "original" in doing things never done before at all ever but doing things in a combination of ways not done that way which is why Star Wars is so original and captivating.

 

The Matrix and The Phantom Menace both hit theaters within a few months of each other. Lucas didn't pilfer the Chosen One idea from The Matrix.

And really, Lucas included a love story in AOTC because of Titanic? Titanic didn't invent love stories, dude. You'd have far more basis to accuse Lucas of only including a bickering romance in TESB because Gone with the Wind was the most successful movie of all time.

 

I think the idea could have worked as a subversion of the Chosen one narratives, as it leads to the Jedi making false assumptions about Anakin, but it is not executed well. It needed far more information to work: where does the prophecy come from? What does the prophecy say? Why do the Jedi believe in the prophecy? How does it affect Anakin and his relationships to others, etc. The audience doesn't get a chance to think about the prophecy for themselves because they never get the necessary information to make any sort of judgement.

 

A movie that takes five years to make and release, is somehow able to copy another film that came out one month earlier? As to the love story, seriously? You wanted Lucas to ignore how Anakin became evil?

Why does it matter where the prophecy came from?

It says that the Chosen One will bring balance to the Force by destroying the Sith.

They don't. This is clear throughout the PT. In TPM, the Council doubt that Anakin is the Chosen One because the Sith were extinct. Then they learn that they were wrong and so they take Anakin in on the possibility that he might be the Chosen One. In AOTC, Mace never says that he is the Chosen One. He just says that if he is, then he is the only one who can restore the balance. In ROTS, they doubt that he is the Chosen One based his increasingly defiant and troubling attitude.

He doesn't believe in it, as shown in TCW. It doesn't affect his relationships because no one is affected by it.

 

Jesus was neither the first nor last person said to have been born of a virgin. This concept is thousands of years older than the historical account of Jesus and includes Ra, Dionysus, Krishna, Mithras, Perseus, Zoroaster, Alexander the Great, Gautama Buddha and Lao Tzu to name a few. The significance of miraculous births in relation of religious or historical figures is a concept tied to the divine importance of the person; that they are willed into being by god or gods and born from a special woman or other conduit. Without a male contribution of genetic material, the concept suggests that the pregnancy and subsequent birth is caused by a greater power above that of mere mortals.

Lucas studied mythology heavily and imported what he learned into SW. It is one of the hallmarks of the story and one of the reasons SW is so popular throughout the world regardless of religion or cultural belief; all cultures and religions find familiar concepts embedded within its narrative. Lucas wasn't knocking Jesus by using the concept. Like in great mythology of the ancient world, Anakin being conceived by the Force just means he is special and chosen for a great destiny. But remember, great destinies arent always positive. You could say Adolf Hitler had a great destiny that placed a mark on history that will never be forgotten. Jesus is called upon worldwide, known for his mercy, but he did get killed for it. Through Anakin the Sith and Jedi were reduced to zero; at the moment he joined the force, Luke truly became a Jedi. As soon as that happened, the march towards imbalance started anew.

 

That he didn't / couldn't copy from The Matrix is clear (let me add Lord to the Rings to that era's "chosen ones" and wasn't that something also claimed for Harry Potter?).

However, the premise of Titanic (1997) was a male coming from humble beginnings falling in love with a female of the upper and/or aristocratic class. The PT featured a similar premise.

 

So did ANH but it went nowhere after that.

In Rhodopis (the original Cinderella) the young slave girl marries the King of Egypt as slave Anakin marries the Queen of Naboo so from Lucas' standpoint that is more his frame of reference though most likely first encounted by him through Disney's Cinderella which was released when he was 6.

 

The idea of a doomed romance predates Cameron by a good many year. Yes, there was a romance storyline in the PT, just as there is in the OT and the ST.

 

The mythology of the chosen one could have been made more Star Warsy.

In Star Wars you’re not turned to stone; you’re frozen in carbonate. You’re not in a dragon’s lair; you’ve fallen in a Rancor pit. In Star Wars you weren’t a virgin birth; you’re born via... ?

 

I don't have a problem with the concept, as it is star wars has always been on the mystical side of things and Anakin is very much fitting of that-borne of the force itself, a prodigy, a prophesied savior figure. The fascinating thing about that is that Anakin himself is a flawed character-he's quick to anger, can be self entitled and arrogant, and doesn't have the respect of some his superiors-Mace Windu for example.

In fact, I very much like the way that plays out.

 

...The midi-chlorians? I mean, what else do you want, Lucas can't rewrite the laws of human biology that much. You gotta come out of a lady's hoo-ha. Only exception is clones, and Lucas didn't want to make Anakin a clone. Instead he made Boba Fett a clone and structured his story as a twisted parallel to Anakin's.

 

I already know that you're a staunch defender of GL and the PT - but I think you're kinda unfair to the discussion now, and making statements that require more knowledge than I believe you (or I) have.

In the OT they never went into any kind of biology, human or otherwise. Cause in science fiction with aliens and all sorts of weird creatures it opens up far too many questions about physical intimacy and reproduction. Better just leave things unsaid.

And instead of perhaps widening the whole Jedi concept (they all dress the same and wield the same type of weapon regardless of species) in the PT we are presented with a white male, born from his white mother - being "adopted" by two white males - and falling in love with a white female.

On top of that he is also the Chosen One - conceived by virgin birth. Regardless of which stories GL got his inspiration from the PT is nothing original or eye-opening in any way. (Except perhaps Yoda flipping around like a duracell rabbit but still not winning against proper opponents).

So yes, contrary to your belief - as a story-teller you yourself decide your boundaries of the world you create. And then if you have your story set up properly you never need to stray from your original vision.

Sometimes "the show not tell"-version isn't always the best. Why not simply have a single line of dialogue between Anakin's mentor (Obi-Wan that is) explaining to his old mentor (Yoda of course) the delicate choice to train the rogue youngster.

"I met this boy on Tatooine, I believe the Force to be extremely strong with him, he's an orphan with no known family - the right thing must be to train him, now that we're sensing an unknown threat in the Galaxy..."

Edit: Ok, now I might be a bit cheeky - but that's kinda the GL-version vs the JJ-version.

 

First off, who said that Shmi was a virgin? That's a mighty big leap to assume she was.

Second, Lucas wasn't going for anything original or eye-opening with the Saga as a whole. As he stated, he was telling an old story in a new way. That's it.

Third, nothing in what was written in ANH or ROTJ about Anakin's backstory is inconsistent with what happens in the PT. Obi-wan says that he was impressed with Anakin's power when they first met. This is illustrated in TPM. Obi-wan states that he took it upon himself to train Anakin, which he does. And he thought that he could do better than Yoda. Talking about Anakin being a Chosen One in no way violates that. What it does is fall into Lucas's narrative that people have a destiny and that they have to decide to follow it or not. Anakin has a great destiny and chooses not to follow it, because he is selfish and greedy, unable to let go of his attachments. Luke has two destinies, to be a Jedi or to be a Sith. He has to choose which one it is that he wants to follow.

 

Haha - yeah, I get what you're saying... Maybe the problem then is Qui-Gon's (or Obi-Wan's) lack of reaction to the concept of "no father". I'd be like kinda laughing nervously and slowly disengaging if some random slave woman told me this - unless it was a common thing in our universe. The whole deal about a Chosen One just comes out of nowhere and isn't properly explained - hence also this kind of misunderstanding.

Well, the reactions back in 1980 to several elements in Empire tend to lend support to my opinion that the OT became iconic partly because the films were PERCEIVED as original or eye-opening. And I voiced my disappointment that GL didn't bring that into the PT.

This is simply yet another attempt to defend the events as they are portrayed in TPM and really doesn't connect with my post. To me it is obvious that spending all that valuable time (and production resources) to visualize the life of child-Anakin did nothing to further the actual story.

I still don't understand the concept of the Chosen One, or Anakin's heritage, or the foundations of the Jedi Order, any better than after only listening to Obi-Wan's few minutes of dialogue in the OT.

 

It does seem a bit silly and reckless for the Jedi, (mostly Qui Gon) who are normally very cautious and reserved, to put so much stock in a vague prophesy that Yoda admits can be misread.

 

The story is about how Anakin was taken from his mother at a young age and how this traumatic event influenced his personality and caused him to become Darth Vader. It would be criminal from a story perspective not to actually show these events and flesh them out. Anakin's parting with his mother is one of the most emotionally affecting scenes in the saga.

I'm sure what's so hard to understand. Anakin is a messiah, a hero born under mysterious circumstances who is foretold to fulfill a great destiny. As has been pointed out many times, this is a story almost as old as Western civilization. Saying you don't understand it is like saying you don't understand Great Flood narratives. It's like, where have you been?