CT I wish “MACLUNKY!” just replaced Greedo shooting at all

With this added line that has elicited much amusement and incredulous randomness, I actually think it’s better than having Greedo shooting first. Apparently the word is a deadly threat in Huttese. So instead of Greedo shooting first to make Han look less like a cold blooded killer, this new line simply makes it more clear that Greedo is about to kill Han.

I mean it’s better now that they fire at the same time so it looks more like Greedo shooting a misfire was just a reflex of being shot but it would have been great if the new line flat out replaces Greedo shooting first at all.

 

I'd argue that even the original dialogue made it apparent that Greedo was going to kill Han at that point. Being relatively inexperienced and talking too much was Greedo's undoing.

I believe the technical reasoning was that time was trimmed out of the rest of the segment (I think a shot of Greedo getting hit), so they had to make up the time elsewhere by inserting something in its place. I still maintain that the original scene had no confusion and Han was justified in defending himself against a guy pointing a gun right at him, but I can live with the edit.

 

Oh I do too. I think the original scene is perfect as is. I’m just saying if it really bothered Lucas so much, I’d rather he just have that new line to make it like... 100% clear he was about to kill Han instead of having him shoot first at all.

 

when you say "I've been looking forward to this for a long time" you're clearly saying "I'm going to kill you now." even as a kid I got this. He also had a gun/blaster pointed at Han. We can assume Han knew Greedo well enough to know he is not bluffing. The scene implies they have some history and bad blood.

 

I agree, I did too. The question is would you rather have Greedo shooting first or "MACLUNKY!"?

 

"Over my dead body."
"That's the idea."

Pretty clear, cut-and-dry dialogue exchange there.

 

I guess I'd choose Greedo shooting first, although since he's 4 feet away it's a choice between dumb and dumber.

 

Well, Greedo’s supposed to be an incompetent idiot, so he can shoot and miss from that distance. The Jabba scene that was added back in ‘97 kind of suggests, to me anyway, that that’s why Jabba sent him to Han to begin with: Jabba sent Greedo as a “warning shot,” fully expecting Han to kill him.

 

Well, the problem is that there are no subtitles, but of course those could have been added. But I don't think Lucas saw the threat as enough to replace Greedo shooting at all. It seems he only saw it as enough to warrant having Han and Greedo shoot simultaneously. I believe he was trying to compromise with the fan base and this was as far as he was willing to go.

I get the impression that Jabba sent Greedo to bring Han over to him, and he told Greedo that he could shoot him if he resisted. But Greedo decided to just shoot Han anyway, and then just tell Jabba he was resisting. But Jabba didn't explicitly send Greedo to kill Han.

 

DP

 

I never understand why there has been so much fannying around with that scene in the first place. What exactly was wrong with the version where Han just shoots the guy without all this tinkering?

 

Well according to Lucas, Han Solo is John Wayne and this means he must never shoot first.
He should always let the other guy shoot first.
That is the reason Lucas gave back in the 90's as to why this was changed.
Or rather, Lucas argued that he didn't change it, he restored it to what it was originally intended to be.
That Greedo was always supposed to shoot first but due to technical problems they were unable to.

This reasoning is odd as Han shoots first several other times in the movie.
And other people that worked on the film have denied the claim that Greed was supposed to shoot first or even shoot at all.

As other have said, the original scene is very clear, I even got it at 8 years old.
So why it was tinkered with? Beats me.
I think Lucas has backed away somewhat and moved the scene closer to what it was originally.
I think the scene should not have been messed with at all.

Bye for now.
Blackboard Monitor

 

I don't know, I don't think anyone's ever talked about this before.

 

I think 'maclunky' was add for two reasons:

1) Add a tiny bit more tension into the scene. (That would be the fan base compromise)

2) Remove the obvious squib loaded dummy Greedo from the movie before the 3D conversion. (This is the main reason)

Do you think the subtitle was omitted and later releases will have a translation?

Agreed. I'm not even sure Jabba directly sent Greedo to collect Han. Greedo was drinking in the Cantina and saw Han. Greedo had early word, or wrong info about the price on Han's head. He saw an opportunity and got carried away trying to collect the bounty.

Jabba would rather get paid than kill Han. But with Greedo dead and more Rodians in his gang Jabba has to make a visit directly to Han. Maybe Jabba is there to kill Han? Or maybe Jabba is there to cool things off. It shows the other Rodians Jabba is in charge and did something . And if Jabba didn't want Han dead it's way to smooth over what Greedo did to Han.

 

Which is odd because Han Solo doesn't not equal John Wayne. Han is an outlaw...John Wayne rarely was an outlaw. Even when he was, he was not the same archetype as Han....John Wayne played by the rules. When you alter this you inherently make Han seem less dangerous/streetwise. This is why I am glad Han Shot beckett first in Solo....not because "killing instead of talking is cool", but because it shows Han's character and that he has a gritty, survival instinct. He's got an edge that is dulled when they both shoot.

What I think happened was this: George Lucas had kids. Like a lot of people, having kids changes your perspective on violence being portrayed by heroes, etc. So, Lucas tidies up his scene and later Spielberg removes guns from E.T. scenes and replaces them with walkies.

 

Lucas said this;

Which, as you said, doesn't quite fit.
And as I've said, Han shoots first several other times in the film.

The reason you give is possible but Spielberg later backed down on doing these things.
About Close Encounters, he said this;

Bye for now.
Old Stoneface

 

Hilarious.



This second one is what I would have preferred.



Somebody needs to send these to Harrison Ford. This is damn hilarious.

 

Han is John Wayne in the sense that he's a loner but he has a moral center. He isn't a cold-blooded killer.

This was always the case. The problem was that a lot of people misinterpreted the scene.

I'm not sure how important removing the dummy was. It's basically impossible to see clearly in any version. I think it was pretty much entirely meant to justify Han shooting at the exact same time as Greedo. Lucas added that extra shot because he thought it was important, and as a result he had to shorten the flash so he didn't mess with the run-time of the scene.

I guess it's possible the subtitle was omitted and that there'll be a version with burned-in subtitles that has a translation. The theory here would be that the Disney+ version omits subtitles for that one phrase because it uses captions which are derived from an earlier version of the movie. It doesn't really make sense for it to be the only dialogue without any translation.

 

I think the 3D conversion part is why they'd want to remove the dummy. Which then opened up the idea to further re-edit the shot.

To put the dummy into 3D would be drawing attention and accentuate the flaw. Just speculation on my part.

 

I would say that Han in ANH is more like Eastwood's character in the Dollar films, esp "Fistful of Dollars."
That character was self-serving and wanted money but he did have a heart. He helped the woman, Marisol I think, and her family without reward.
So not devoid of morals but not a good guy like John Wayne either.

And did people really misinterpret the scene?
Han shot in self-defense, that was clear to me even at 8 years old and not speaking English yet.
Greedo had a gun pointed at Han and talked in quite a threatening manner.
It was not necessary to have Greedo shoot first in order to make it clear that Han's life is in danger and he can defend himself.

Han being "cold-blooded" if you want to call it that comes much more in tossing a coin to the barkeep and saying "Sorry about the mess."
Not totally unlike Eastwood in "Fistful.." "My mistake, four coffins."

And like I said, Han shoots first several other times in the film. So why change this scene?

Bye.
Blackboard Monitor

 

I still don't think that would have made it visible enough to matter. The shortening of the dummy shot was purely a side effect of inserting the Maclunkey shot.

Yes, lots of people misinterpreted it. I don't understand why we need to keep having this discussion. Look at any thread on this topic on this very site. Plenty of people think the original version made Han a cold-blooded killer, and they like it that way, because they're convinced it's part of some kind of arc.

 

Greedo has a gun pointed at him and is clearly threatening his life. It's not like Han just pulled out a blaster and shot him over a spilled drink.

 

And yet....people didn't get it, and continue not to get it.

Regardless of how justified it was legalistically, it clearly comes across as a bit too ruthless and underhanded. That's not who Han Solo is, not even before his transformation.

 

Sure, except for the fact that that's exactly what he did, ruthlessly and underhandedly. That's who he was at that point in the story.