ST Ian McDiarmid (Plapy) in Episode IX

Lol

 

There better be a good reason why none of the Force Ghosts knew that Palpatine was still alive. They're all celebrating like idiots on the Forest Moon of Endor now. More powerful than you can possibly imagine my ass. They can watch over Luke at any time no matter where in the galaxy, but they can't untether themselves away from watching him spearfish and drink Achtocow joose and see what else is going on in the galaxy?

If we're to buy into their inability to see what else is going on in the galaxy and assume they cannot see into the future (fine), then even if they couldn't sense Palpatine in the Force because of "difficult to see, the Dark Side is", they should still have been able to be like "Yo, Luke...Leia...that Snoke guy you guys know, here's his deal." And they should have been able to share whether Snoke was a pawn, fraud, fake, not really the big bad, or whatever else. I guess these situations fall under the "I can't interfere" FG rule.

It's going to be inelegant for whomever is tasked with explaining away Snoke, Palpatine and Force Ghosts' "why didn't they say something?"

Seriously, even if Obi-Wan and Yoda couldn't interfere in DSII, how could they pass up missing that show which they were participants in Part 1 of once, even if they had to be all invisible and silent. As soon as Palpatine's body was yeeted down the hole, you'd think those two would have yoinked down the hole too to go see what happened. I guess they thought the unmasking Vader moment was more interesting.

 

This even further proves that families can be force sensitive prone, Qui-Gon wouldn't have asked this if that wasn't the case.
''The Force is unusually strong with him, that much is clear. Who is his father?'' - Qui-Gon Jinn

 

Force ghosts are a confusing mess, i don't even try and understand them. They seem capable of everything yet also nothing, at the time when it actually matters, simultaneously, if that makes any sense. So far it's been thrown on the "the force works in mysterious ways" pile, but the more stories they make, the stronger the need will be for them to make up their minds just what FG's limits actually are, their perception of things and by what rules they can play.

Until then you're just going to run into the old "why didn't he/she (fill in blank)?" forever and it raises understandable questions.

 

Not like it would be the first time Palpatine hid under their noses.

 

I can think of several ways he could tie in but I don't think any of them are more probable than the others based on what evidence we have so far.

 

FG are the Star Wars equivalent of stopping on the way home for some milk at a convenience store. Get whatever you need whenever you need it. They can do it all if you need them to

 

Him being so weak he can barely move explains why he hasn’t been seen anywhere or made any serious moves. Also being located in the unknown regions helps a lot. The fleet and all that jazz was put in place during ROTJ era.

 

If his plan is to have Rey kill him and take his place, why does he need Rey to do that for him? Couldn't he just commit suicide? Moreover, simply killing someone won't necessarily turn them to the dark side or guarantee fitness for Sith Lordship. Doesn't that require years of additional training?

 

He's manipulating her to go dark of course, he's no danger of dying from her, similar to how he tried with Luke to strike him down.

 

Exactly. His ultimate endgame is bringing Rey and Kylo together. As he says in the trailer, “long have I waited, and now your coming together is your undoing.”

 

This is all one big poorly thought out dream. you just roll with the punches and try to find some aspects to enjoy. like a Marvel WHAT IF comic. WHAT IF LUKE SKYWALKER WENT NUTS AND FORGOT THE FIRST THREE FILMS IN CANON. etc.

 

There is no indication that Force spirits have special knowledge beyond what they would know if they were still alive. Yes, they're more powerful, and that's mainly because they can no longer be killed. But neither Ben nor Yoda gained any special knowledge after their death. They simply retained their identity and were able to offer advice to their students. So I think it is entirely fine for them to be unaware that Palpatine survived Vader's betrayal. They're not gods.

I would also not even worry that Palpatine's survival could somehow invalidate Vader's sacrifice or his role in bringing balance to the Force. Even if Palpatine did not literally die, he did die for all intents and purposes as far as history and causality were concerned. The yoke of the Sith was cast off and the Jedi were saved. Does it truly matter if the shattered man who was once Emperor was still breathing, somewhere in exile and with most of his power gone? This is actually a parallel to what happened with Luke. Kylo's betrayal resulted in his apparent death and then in his exile. Luke's survival only mattered if someone else were to bring him back onto the game board.

So Palpatine's survival only matters in the sense that "always in motion the future is." Skywalker did destroy the Sith, which led to the defeat of the Empire. The heroes achieved their victory and fulfilled the prophecy. But the future of that peace was not fixed. It was in motion, and if things had unfolded differently after Endor then perhaps it really would have been the end of the Sith threat. We don't know what happened, exactly, and that's fine. But we can piece together that they had their own equivalent of Rey finding Luke. Perhaps it was Snoke and the Imperial remnant finding Palpatine, which offered them all a new hope. And so, slowly, the Sith and their Empire had a path back to life; not literally, but practically.

 

^ Very interesting post. I like how you compare Luke and Palpatine both being in exile with their power gone, and never really entering the game again.

 

Normally, yes, but Super-Rey is exempt.

 

This is just my theory Luke manifested himself to a degree in the physical but it was still a projection.The Emperor will literally move his physical body to another location.I will accept that if done right.It has precedent of what already has been shown and will in a sense be the next step in force power shown.I don't like the idea of the Emperor surviving the fall or being rescued.The Emperor will be shown near death by this force power,but he survives.Then later in the movie he force drains Rey and Kylo to regenerate his life back to full power.Another step forward in force power shown.In the end though the ultimate force power is the ability to have eternal life through the light side of the force,and this is the power that Palpatine can't overcome and will be defeated by.

 

Well the leaks suggest this

Which if true would mean yeah Sidious is trying to make her kill him so she will turn dark, take over from him and his legacy, but Rey and Kylo coming together would be the next best thing that could happen for him

 

Right, and none of that makes any sense if it isn't a ruse.

 

Presumbaly the core of this story is that Rey could become the new Sidious. the next in the bloodline. the new Emporer. Palpatines motivations may be towards that.

 

Hahah. How many 30+ year contingency plans does Sidious need? He plans out this elaborate convoluted plan, possibly sometime before ROTJ, so he can lure Luke into the DS, and have his apprentice betray him, all so he can get his unborn granddaughter to be seduced to the dark side and take over his Empire. But if that doesn't work, then he'll gladly suck the force from his current apprentice's future dark side, non-sith, grandson and his granddaughter and then go about continuing to rule the galaxy.

Like. Whaaaa? That just sounds so ridiculous. And I'm trying to make it sound not funny, but it is.

 

Do we know for sure (by leaks) that the DS2 throne room scenes in ROTJ were now a ruse?

Seems kind of risky for JJ to undo that Palpatine thought he was winning for real.
His overconfidence was the main characteristic that did him in.

I wouldn't mind if it turns out he had a backup plan just in case in ROTJ, but a full retcon that he wanted Vader to betray him is too on the nose.

 

He did have a back up in ROTJ. Kill Luke. Which is what he was doing when Vader turned on him. He rather confidently - as he told Luke - you like your father are now mine. That's not someone who has a secret secret back up plan where they plan on their apprentice betraying him so he can hide out for 30 years waiting for his unborn granddaughter to show up so he can bequeath his Empire to her.

 

Again, do we know his waiting for Kylo and Rey wasn't improvised post-ROTJ?

He could have been half-killed, and relatively helpless, then sensed/foresaw Rey and Kylo's growing strength and presence in the force and then started waiting for them.

 

Because you just asked if Palpatine's throne room Luke trap was a ruse for a secret backup plan. It wasn't.