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PT If Maul wasn't stronger than Dooku, why Sidious didn't use Dooku earlier?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Erkan12, Nov 23, 2021.

  1. Samuel Vimes

    Samuel Vimes Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    You miss the point.
    Earlier you said;
    You say that Tyrannus is a Sith name and Dooku used that before TPM. meaning he was a Sith BEFORE TPM.
    If he was not and used the Tyrannus alias, then it is not a Sith name.

    If it is and Dooku had turned to the dark side then how is this not breaking the rule of two?
    Dooku has turned evil and has gotten a Sith name and yet somehow he does not count as a Sith when it comes to the rule of two?

    Ten years pass between TPM and AotC, at least that is what the info I have read says.
    Obi-Wan says that Sifo-Dyas was killed almost ten years ago, as in less than ten years ago.
    He also says that the clone army was ordered almost ten years ago, as in less than ten years ago.
    So both events happened after TPM.

    If the clone army was ordered after TPM and by Dooku, who was now a Sith. Then things add up. He hired Jango, he poses as Sifo-Dyas and he deleted the Kamino file. Sifo-Dyas is not needed for any of this.

    If Sifo-Dyas being killed and the ordering of the clone army occurred before TPM then it would be more than ten years ago and conflict with AotC.

    Either, Sifo-Dyas was killed before TPM and the clone army ordered after TPM, by Dooku pretending to be Sifo-Dyas. Then Sifo-Dyas did not order the army as he was dead.
    If Sifo-Dyas did order the army and he died before TPM, then the order must have been placed before TPM as well.
    If he did not die until after TPM then he could have placed the order before his death. But Obi-Wan says Sifo-Dyas was killed before the army was ordered. Plus he was not the one who hired Jango.

    And you have not answered why Palpatine would put the clone plan in motion BEFORE he was chancellor.
    The clone army plan hinge on him being chancellor and it would make several things easier. Like payment, being able to intercept any calls from the Kamino people in case they decided to contact the senate and so on.
    So why would he rush this if he did not have to?
    Palpatine uses the TF to cause a crisis and get him elected chancellor. Then he sets the clone army into motion and Dooku goes and starts to rally the seps. That makes sense.
    That he would set the clone army into motion before knowing if the Naboo thing would pay off seems needlessly risky for a clever man like Palpatine. And he is not under any kind of time crunch.

    Bye for now.
    Blackboard Monitor
     
  2. Erkan12

    Erkan12 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 27, 2013
    Somehow you believe it was possible for Palpatine to not be a Chancellor by losing the election, he was sure %100 that, as he already controls a large portion of the Senate even during Episode 1. So Palpatine was going to be the Chancellor, he knew it was guaranteed. Which is why he already arranged the Clone army before.

    Sidious can break rule of two if it serves his purposes. And he still didn't do that.

    Rule of two is for protecting the Sith and the Sith master. It's not set in stone. If Sith master believes having more Sith apprentice candidates helps him, he can do that.

    The rule is there because weaker Sith lords, were teaming up with each other to defeat the strongest Sith master. Rule of two was designed by the Sith master, so the rule can protect the strongest Sith and create a Sith order without fighting with each other all the time.

    Sidious can train two different apprentices, if those apprentices doesn't know each other, if they don't know each other, they can't team up and tried to kill Sidious. That's exactly what Sidious did. And Tyranus wasn't a Sith lord yet, he was just being used and trained by Sidious at the time, Maul was the Sith lord.

    He also trained Inquisitors, Dark Side users after the Clone Wars, that's also not against the Rule of Two, since Inquisitors are not Sith Lords.

    And still, Dooku/Tyranus was not a Sith lord yet, Maul was. Sidious didn't break the rule of two, because Dooku wasn't a Sith lord yet, not sure why do you think there can't be Sith candidates, it's called having back up plans. Sidious definitely had back up plans if he lost his apprentice, it was Dooku and he had a Sith name, having a Sith name doesn't make him a Sith lord. It looks like you are confused about this. Maul stopped using his ''Darth'' name after the clone wars, because he wasn't a Sith lord anymore, Tyranus can use that name without the Darth part, which he was doing it, then he got promoted and become Darth Tyranus.

    In the legends, Tenebrous, also trained Venamis, which is a Sith name, while also training Plagueis, he didn't break any rule as Venamis wasn't a Sith lord yet, just like Tyranus wasn't before Episode 1, they weren't ''Darth''.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2021
  3. Dandelo

    Dandelo SW and Film Music Interview Host star 10 VIP - Game Host

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    Aug 25, 2014

    spare yourself the headache dude,

    you are correct, this whole thing is so laughable, it's absurd.

    "Oh this has changed now it's now this because uhhm, we can LOL"

    Why should we the audience feel connected to ANY of this needlessly muddled plot point when it keeps changing on a dime?

    Sifo Dyas is whoever your head canon thinks he is ;)

    or in other words 'pick your flavour'
     
  4. Samuel Vimes

    Samuel Vimes Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Sep 4, 2012
    That is not an answer to my question, WHY put the clone army in motion before he is chancellor when he does not have to?
    Why the rush? Did he have to get the Kamino people before a certain date?
    If not, why rush this? There is no need.

    Also, the vote that happened in TPM was not what Palpatine planned. He did not plan for Padme to escape and get to Coruscant. When she did, he adapted.
    What his original plan was in unknown. Likely the TF force Padme to sign some treaty, that is presented to the senate, it gets an ok. Palpatine argues that it was obviously signed under duress, argues that valorum is weak, gets him removed and then gets elected. But from TPM, it seemed to me that his plans were accelerated by the events of the film. The Jedi getting involved, Padme escaping etc.

    If the clone army was ordered years before TPM, then did Palpatine have the plan for the TF to blockade Naboo in protest of some new tax? Was that trade tax a thing back then?

    Yoda certainly seems to think it is set in stone. "Always two there are, no more, no less."
    Now there can be tons of Sith so this makes what he says irrelevant.

    Except you said that Dooku DID know about Maul. So how does that work?


    And this makes the not breaking the rule of two a really big "Technically".
    Sidious can have 50 dark siders working for him, they can all even have Sith names but as long as just one has got the Lord part, there is no problem.

    Bye for now.
    Old Stoneface.
     
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  5. Erkan12

    Erkan12 Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 27, 2013
    Did I say he knew him in person? No. So not sure why you bring this what I said or not, Dooku of course knew Maul, he just knew him, or working under him, like Ventress was working for both Sidious and Dooku, because he was a back up, like Ventress was back up, he couldn't team up with Maul to kill Sidious, because Maul was the Sith lord, he should've known that. It doesn't mean he could reach Maul and they could team up, perhaps he couldn't even find Maul, even if he did Maul or Sidious would kill him, so I don't know why you are still bringing this irrelevant points to this discussion when it's confirmed that Dooku was working for Sidious as a Dark Side user before Episode 1.

    I shouldn't put these twice if you are just going ignore what they say?

    Chee: ''We find out who Sifo-Dyas is. Did George know since Episode II what Sifo-Dyas was?''

    Dave Filoni: ''I can give you my opinion. I don't know. As a storyteller myself, I can tell you [that] you evolve the story so much as you evolve other parts of the story. I think it's something [Lucas] wanted to lock down more before he left. Which is why we have this arc. And one interesting thing that you have to accept, which I'd not really considered watching the movies, is that Sidious has both Dooku and Maul as padawan learners at the same time. Because Dooku, in order to put the things in motion that he does, has to be doing them around the time of The Phantom Menace. So he's operatively working, somewhat knowingly for Sidious, under corruption, while Maul is still there.''
    --- Source: Sifo-Dyas and the Sith - The Lost Missions Q&A | Star Wars: The Clone Wars


    Anakin: ''Why bring the war to Naboo?''
    Dooku: ''How quickly you forget. After all the war started here years ago.''
    Anakin: ''You were a part of that first battle?''
    Dooku: ''The Sith control everything. You just don't know it
    .''
    --- Source: TCW Season 4 Episode 04 Shadow Warrior


    Yoda is not a Sith lord, and he doesn't decide how things works, so another irrelevant argument. It's up to Sidious. The rule is protecting Sidious and other Sith master, it's not limiting them, and Sidious never made Tyranus a Sith lord while Maul was also a Sith lord. He didn't break anything. It was Sidious and Maul, and Tyranus as a Sith candidate, not a Sith lord, then Sidious and Tyranus, Tyranus becomes a real Sith after Episode 1.

    Yes, and why is this a problem for you? It looks like you are under the impression that Sith is like Jedi, they can't break rules. Sith born from defiance, from breaking the rules. And the rule of two is for protecting Sidious, if you understand why the rule of two exists, you wouldn't be questioning this right now, as I explained it to you above in my post, the weaker Sith lords could team up to kill Sidious, if Sith operates like the ancient times, where they were like in one place, working like Jedi, working together. That never happened with Maul and Tyranus, they never work with each other, and Tyranus wasn't a Sith lord when Maul was a Sith lord.

    Yes, Sidious can have 50 or 100 dark siders work for him, who said he can't use Force users? The rule is for Sith lords, not for dark side users. He can, and he used also Inquisitors after the clone wars.

    They even used Ventress during the Clone Wars, Tyranus before Episode 1 was in the same position as Ventress was in the Clone Wars.

    It's not rush, Clones needs time to grow, 10 years needed, so they needed to make it earlier, it's not rushing anything.

    Palpatine knew he was going to be the Chancellor, one way or another, the plans and the events can change, but he knew it, Padme can escape, Trade federation can lose, it doesn't matter, as I said, one way or another it was going to happen once he put Trade federation into motion, because that's when he managed to control enough of the senate to become Chancellor, the Sith waited for Sidious to be ready, when they are ready they made their move, other things were not that important. The Sith wouldn't trust the Trade federation to make their move, they made move after 1000 years because they managed to control the senate and Palpatine becoming Chancellor was inevitable.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2021
  6. Samuel Vimes

    Samuel Vimes Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    I brought it up because your argument is not consistent.
    One the one hand you argue that a Sith master can have multiple Sith apprentices IF they do not know each other. On the other hand you argue that Dooku did know about Maul.
    So contradiction.

    The relevance is the writing because what Yoda said is intended for the audience.
    This is the first time that Sith is being talked about in the films and now we hear about how there are always two Sith. If other EU can totally ignore that and have many Sith at the time then why establish a rule that you then don't bother to follow?

    An ex from Star Trek is that they have the rule that you can not beam through the shields. And yet from time to time, they do beam through the shields without any explanation. Because the writers were lazy or did not pay attention to lore.

    Again, the writing. Why set up something that is then not relevant?

    And the writing is also an issue with Sifo-Dyas because with each alteration of this plot point, it becomes worse and worse. In my opinion.

    Less than ten is needed per AotC.

    And become chancellor, set the clone army in motion and then wait and in less than ten years you are ready to move on to the next part of the plan. Also as chancellor, you have access to more money and can pay for the clones. And in case the Kamino people contact the senate, you have a greater chance of controlling the information. In all, makes better sense.
    So again, no reason given why he should set this in motion before TPM.

    This makes Palpatine into a far less interesting and clever person. He thinks "My plans can not possibly fail!" Instead I see him as someone that has plans but those plans are malleable and one of his great assets is being quick on his feet. When Padme gets to Coruscant, he adapts his plans. When Padme survives the first attempt, he adapts. Etc.

    But this is getting us nowhere so no point in dragging this out.

    Bye.
    Old Stoneface
     
  7. Erkan12

    Erkan12 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 27, 2013
    If they don't know each other in person, then they can't team up, on the contrary, they would try to kill each other.

    Plagueis didn't know anything about Venamis, but Venamis knew about Plagueis. But Venamis didn't know Plagueis in person, almost the same thing with Maul and Tyranus at the time. Venamis and Plagueis wouldn't team up with each other to kill Tenebrous.

    What I mean that in the ancient times, the Sith were operating just like the Jedi, in a temple, there were many Sith lords working together, they knew each other in person, in the end, they always team up to kill the stronger Sith master to gain power.

    Dooku can hear or know Maul, without having any bond with him, he just knows him, it's not the same with Dooku and Ventress having a bond together so they can kill Sidious, or Maul and Savage. This is what I meant by knowing each other, having a bond, not just hearing or knowing how powerful the other Sith is.

    Maul and Dooku wouldn't team up like Dooku and Ventress or Maul and Savage would team up, because they have no bond or any relationship, they would side with Sidious, so they don't know each other, Dooku just learned how powerful Maul is which is why he said Maul is a Great Sith lord, Dooku didn't know Maul like he know Sidious, he knew Sidious in person, he didn't know Maul in person, they never met.

    I hope you understand the difference here.

    Which is why Sidious allowed Inquisitors to exist, because Vader and Inquisitors have no bond like master and apprentice, Inquisitors are loyal to Emperor first, then Vader, thus Sidious allows them to exist, if Vader had an apprentice that has no bond with Sidious, then Sidious wouldn't allow it.

    Once Sidious realizes the danger of Dooku and Ventress teaming up, he told Dooku to kill Ventress, and Dooku split up with Ventress. There was no danger with Maul and Dooku teaming up, as Maul or Dooku would side with Sidious in any case not with each other.

    The rule is based on protecting the Sith master, if there is no danger, they can keep using Ventress or Tyranus (pre-Episode 1) without making them Sith lords.

    Kaminoans clearly said they only produced 200,000 Clone unit, and 1 million Clone unit will be ready later, so to produce enough Clones for their initial agreement, they needed minimum 10 years, or even more.

    They also needed to use Sifo-dyas for this plan, so either in Lucas's version, Sifo-dyas was the Sith lord, and he made the arrangement when Sidious told him to do, or Tyranus was manipulating Jedi Sifo-dyas and they finally made him make the arrangement with Kaminoans before Episode 1, so Clones also depends on Sifo-dyas, not only to Sith.
    I don't think you realize why the rule of two exists in the first place if you still think this.
    Again, please understand why the rule exists in the first place: To protect the Sith master, if there was no risk of Sith lord Maul and Sith lord candidate Tyranus teaming up to kill Sidious, then there is no problem.

    That, and Yoda never said that as a reply to someone saying there might be 3 or 4 Sith lords. Windu simply said Maul was a Sith lord, and Yoda said there is another because that's how they operate, on the contrary, once a Sith lord is presumed to be dead or demoted then there must be a candidate to replace him immediately, so what Yoda saying can be explained as there is also another person to replace Maul immediately since they are always 2, for this to happen there must be always a Sith lord candidate waiting to take a Sith lord's place.

    Definitely, because you don't accept the evidences that we have;
    1- Obi-Wan saying he was under the impression that Sifo-dyas was killed before Episode 1 after he said ''almost 10 years'', and Jango said he never heard of Sifo-dyas, he was recruited by a guy named Tyranus.
    2- In the Clone Wars season 4 epsiode 4, Dooku admits he was a part of the Battle of Naboo in Episode 1, as he says Sith control everything.
    3- In the Clone Wars season 6 Episode 10, Valorum says that when he was the Chancellor, (which means before Episode 1) he sent Sifo-dyas to his final mission, that's where Sifo-dyas dies before Episode 1. So Sifo-dyas and Tyranus ordered the Clone army before Episode 1.
    4- The Clone Wars director saying that Dooku was being used and being trained by Sidious before Episode 1 and during the Episode 1, because he says, Dooku under the name of Tyranus, couldn't arrange the Clone army after Episode 1.
     
  8. lord_sidious_

    lord_sidious_ Jedi Knight star 3

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    Feb 19, 2019
    Sifo-Dyas/TCW/interview confusion aside, I think that Sidious was confident that he could become chancellor. In TPM, before the election and before Padme announces to him that she will go back to Naboo, he tells her that he is confident: "I feel confident our situation will create a strong sympathy vote for us. I will be chancellor." He has a huge grin on his face as he says this, like there's zero uncertainty and the long-awaited day is finally coming.

    The 6 films alone do not make it clear whether TPM happened first or the ordering of the clones. AOTC just tells us:
    1) TPM happened "10 years ago" (so 9.5-10.5 years ago)
    2) Obi-Wan reports that the Kaminoans said (and there is no reason to think they were lying) that the army was ordered "almost 10 years ago" (so 9.5-9.999999 years ago)
    There is overlap between the two, so based on on AOTC alone, there is no definitive proof of which one is first.

    One thing we do see in TPM is that Dooku wasn't present at Qui-Gon's funeral. Out-of-universe, it's because the character Dooku wasn't made yet. But if we were to come up with an in-universe explanation, to me the simplest would be that he already left the Jedi Order by then, meaning he already joined the Sith and possibly already ordered the creation of the clones. Of course, this is just guesswork and I'm sure people can come up with other explanations too as to why he didn't show up at the funeral.
     
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  9. FightoftheForgotten

    FightoftheForgotten Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 19, 2020
  10. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    I believe in TCW there is some line in which Maul is told about The Clone Wars and Maul says something like “so they’ve started without me,” or something to that effect.

    I get the impression that even if the Clones weren’t actually ordered until after Maul “died,” that it was at least part of the plan while he was still alive.

    Palpatine was grooming Anakin while Dooku was still alive, and I think it’s likely that the same was true with Dooku and Maul. As to why he didn’t replace Maul sooner, age might be a factor. When Dooku dies, Palpatine says that he’ll soon have a far younger and more powerful apprentice. Maul might have been much more powerful than Dooku in the long run had his apprenticeship not been cut short.


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  11. BlueYogurt

    BlueYogurt Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 26, 2021
    True. Maul's half the man he used to be.
     
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  12. Darth Dnej

    Darth Dnej Jedi Master star 4

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    Apr 27, 2013
    Because Maul was bred to be a Sith from a young age. Dooku was brought to the temple as a baby and was a Jedi for many decades before leaving the Order.
    Attempting to turn the former Jedi Master Dooku to the dark side (and become a Sith Lord at that) was quite a gamble. Dooku was also older than Palpatine. Even if Dooku is in pretty tip-top shape for an old man, he's still past his physical prime. You need to try and have every advantage in a fight.
    In current canon and Legends, Maul was intended to be Palpatine's apprentice for a long time. He would've, had he not been bisected on Naboo. While Sidious did make Dooku a Sith Lord (Tyranus), he never once intended for him to last as long. He was a proton torpedo that served his purpose and was gone. By time Dooku became Tyranus, Palpatine already knew of Anakin Skywalker.
     
  13. IJjones41

    IJjones41 Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Nov 13, 2021
    According to the Wookiepedia site, Dooku didn't become Palpatine's apprentice until after the deaths of Qui-Gon and Maul. - both canon and legends. So, why would Sidious use Dooku earlier, instead of Maul?
     
  14. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Wacky Wednesday Host star 10 VIP - Game Host

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    He's already "turned" Dooku before Maul's apparent death. Back in the Valorum administration, Dooku arranges the murder of Sifo-Dyas, on Sidious's orders.
     
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  15. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

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    Apr 13, 2011
    Hence the confusion. I believe the pre-Maul-death-knighted Darth Tyrannus was a retcon?

    I don’t mean to sound harsh but there are a lot of logical paradoxes and loopholes when you analyse the backstory of AOTC. In my opinion more than with any of the other 5 Lucas films.

    I know I’m not helping but I’m just being honest. I’ve followed some of these debates for years.
     
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  16. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Wacky Wednesday Host star 10 VIP - Game Host

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    The idea is that Dooku had "become evil" and carried out murders, before he got the Darth title.

    With the murder itself taking place very shortly before TPM, while Maul was still the junior Darth (and Sidious the senior one).
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2022
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  17. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

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    Apr 13, 2011
    That makes sense I guess.

    But were those murders committed under Sidious’s influence?
    Because it still makes me wonder why Palpatine bothered if he never intended Maul be killed.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2022
  18. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Wacky Wednesday Host star 10 VIP - Game Host

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    It is kind of weird. Especially if you go with the Lucas-style "Sifo-Dyas was the Darth immediately before Maul."

    Having "a spy in the Jedi camp" would be immensely useful.

    Yet, for some reason, Sidious has Dooku arrange Sifo-Dyas's murder, then promotes Maul to apprentice instead of Dooku, then promotes Dooku when Maul disappears on Naboo, presumed dead.
     
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  19. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 7

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    Oct 13, 2003
    Dooku is older than Palpatine, and he wasn't bred a Sith.
     
  20. ConservativeJedi321

    ConservativeJedi321 Force Ghost star 6

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    Mar 19, 2016
    A major relevant question is when Dooku became viable as a potential Dark Sider in the first place.
    The answer is different between Legends and Canon naturally, but a Jedi Master doesn't just randomly wake up one day and decide "Ok, time to be evil."
    It would likely take years of dabbling or testing one's limits before they succumb completely.

    So, it seems likely that when Palpatine took Maul on, which was while the Zabrak was quite young in both continuities, Dooku wasn't even a reasonable consideration for him. Even if the Jedi Master remained a curiosity of the Sith long before he actually fell.

    Not to mentioned, as others have said, Dooku's age doesn't lend credence for him to be considered as a legitimate Sith successor, regardless of his current power level.
    Can you imagine the Dark Lord of the Sith taking on someone so much older than them, dying, and then having the Order as a whole go extinct because the new Dark Lord ended up senile and infirm before they had a chance to train a new successor? Embarrassing. :p
    Ultimately Dooku served his role as a place holder for Anakin.
     
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  21. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    I also think Palpatine always keeps his mind open to multiple possibilities. Dooku was falling while Maul was still alive. Anakin was falling while Dooku was the apprentice. Palpatine was trying to turn Luke while Vader was still alive.

    Palpatine had been corrupting Ben Solo since childhood, then ultimately tells him to kill Rey. But when Rey confronts Palpatine he decides to try to turn Rey.

    Had Maul succeeded against Obi-Wan, then perhaps Dooku would have been discarded and killed. Perhaps the two would have been pitted against each other at some point just like Vader v Luke and Anakin v Dooku.

    Had Anakin proven unable or unwilling to kill Dooku, then Dooku would have remained the apprentice just as Vader would have remained the apprentice when Luke refused to kill him.

    The dialogue in RotS suggests that Dooku’s age was a negative in Palpatine’s eyes, but it obviously wasn’t a dealbreaker. Palpatine didn’t HAVE to take Dooku as an apprentice, even after Maul “died.” He could have continued to use Dooku just as a Dark Side ally, while training a younger apprentice, assuming that Dooku wouldn’t murder the apprentice.

    When Maul pops up in TCW alive, Palpatine doesn’t send Dooku after him. He goes personally to defeat Maul. Maul, even with his younger age, seemed to be of no perceived use by that point.

    Had Anakin been killed by Obi-Wan on Mustafar, I’d imagine that Palpatine would have quickly raised someone else like the Grand Inquisitor to be his apprentice.

    I think he always had some backup in mind.


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  22. El Jedi Colombiano

    El Jedi Colombiano Force Ghost star 6

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    Jun 24, 2013
    I don’t think Sifo Dyas being Sidious’s apprentice is meant to be taken literally. Both Filoni and Lucas seem to use the term a bit informally, and I think what is clear is that Dyas was under the influence of the dark side thanks to his foresight powers and went desperately to the Kaminoans to create a clone army for the Republic. Sidious finds out, perhaps from Dooku who was a friend of Sifo Dyas and orders him killed. Dooku then under the alias Tyranus is the one who secretly controls what is going on with the army.

    Sifo Dyas being the apprentice before Mail doesn’t make sense in light of TCW or the films, so it’s clear to me that George is misremembering things.
     
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  23. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

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    Jul 7, 2009
    Even if you took it as an informal description, the point (and what Lucas was getting at when he said it) is that Sifo-Dyas was serving/working for Sidious. He was not someone who simply had a vision and went to the Kaminoans. He's someone who was working for Sidious and whatever he did was at Sidious behest. Sidious was always behind the creation of the clone army. He wasn't "under the influence of the dark side", Sidious converted Jedi and he was one of them, doing his bidding. Nor did he have any particular foresight powers, all Jedi have foresight abilities.

    TCW doesn't establish anything that prevents Sifo-Dyas from being Sidious apprentice before Maul.
     
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  24. FightoftheForgotten

    FightoftheForgotten Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 19, 2020
    This is an important distinction that you bring up. I feel like in the old EU, Sifo-Dyas was being manipulated unknowingly by the Sith.

    According to Lucas though (post TCW continuity) it seems Sifo-Dyas knew he was working for the Sith.
     
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  25. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Wacky Wednesday Host star 10 VIP - Game Host

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    Yup. And some post-TCW Disney material implies that he doesn't know, either.
     
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