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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST If you feel jaded, how can IX make you fall in love with Star Wars again?

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Ghost, Jun 4, 2018.

  1. dlbates

    dlbates Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 30, 2014
    Yeah, that's the storyline. He is also supposed to be the "what if Anakin didnt get messed up on Mustafar and eventually took over the galaxy". I'm still disappointed they didnt give Snoke more of a backstory before he died. I think it would have had more of a shocking feeling when he killed him. Serkis said Snoke was more powerful than Vader and Palpatine but why was he? That was the only problem I had with episode 9. I already knew Snoke wouldn't make it out given the early leaks before episode 7 about Ren overthrowing his master sooner than expected and the topps trading cards leak that give you a timeline of events. If Ren was leading the First Order on Crait after the throne room and Rey lived then Snoke had to go. I mentioned that somewhere on the forum before TLJ came out but nobody wanted to listen.
     
  2. Bazookaleffe

    Bazookaleffe Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 30, 2014
    1. Ben has a twin brother, who is the leading man of the Knights of Ren, who's been on a mission (make something up) a long with the rest of KoR. Now the "boys are back in town" and realize that the First Order lacks leadership after Snoke's death. Probably too late to establish that kind of storyline. Should've been done during TLJ if anything.
    2. I want more Luke but don't know how. A force ghost will a big impact feels lame.
    3. Rose, Finn, Poe or Rey should die during the first act. I don't like either of them so doesn't matter to me which one.

    I just feel like we're back to square one and that ep. 9 is the first movie of a new trilogy.
    Nothing to look forward to. Ben vs Rey is not interesting anymore.
     
  3. jedijax

    jedijax Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 2, 2013
    @dlbates and @Strongbow But WHY does Kylo want to fully embrace the dark side? He was influenced by Snoke but why and how? Luke showed a moment of weakness and Ben felt threatened so he killed everyone (like Anakin and the Tusken Raiders). But then why did he want to fully fall to the dark side. He wants Luke dead, sure. That's extreme. But why his father, why scores of innocent lives who had NOTHING to do with the issue at the academy?

    A Snape-like Forceback will help to explain things and is DESPERATLY needed for IX despite those who disagree. The story cannot move forward and conclude without some more understanding of how it got to its current status.
     
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  4. SlashMan

    SlashMan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2012
    TLJ didn't leave me as disillusioned as most, but the ending left me feeling... uninterested. It didn't seem to lead anywhere or give me anything to look forward to. We don't need overt cliffhangers like Empire Strikes Back, but there was no buildup.

    Though some pressing questions should get addressed. Too much emphasis was put on Rey's parents for the topic to be dismissed so easily in TLJ. Doesn't have to retcon TLJ, but give us something a little more convincing.

    Better explain Snoke and the First Order. This was one of the lazier elements of TFA that got no elaboration in TLJ. 1-6 still feels like a complete Saga to me because a new big bad comes out of nowhere and lessens the definitive ending of Return of the Jedi with no payoff. There's always been a sense of continuity between villains, even in the prequels where there was a new antagonistic group in each film; they all grew from the threats of the previous films (the Trade Federation formed the Separatists and wanted revenge, the new Emperor was the head of the Separatists, but also infiltrated the Republic).

    It seems like they had no direction for Leia, and she felt boring. This was set to change in IX since it was going to feature her prominently, but I see no easy solution now. Just give her a tasteful sendoff.

    Knights of Ren. I'm not mad that TLJ didn't address this loose end, but it needs to be touched on at some point. Unfortunately, they're running out of movies to do so.

    Give us as much Lando as possible, as well as a good ass excuse for being absent the last two films. He's the last of the original leads left, don't toss him aside like Luke and Leia (Han was used well, but didn't deserve to die). Killing him off would also be the last nail in the coffin.

    We need a good lightsaber duel. It's a hallmark of the franchise, and was noticeably missing during TLJ. Although since both the previous third entries for a final duel were somehow built off the first entry, I guess that leaves Rey vs Kylo.

    Do something with Luke. We were already sold on The Last Jedi just from him being teased in The Force Awakens. And for many, that payoff wasn't worth the stupid amount of buildup and intentionally keeping Luke out of a whole movie. His return to form only came during his final scenes before he was killed off.

    While I'm not really connected to much of the new cast, I feel like Finn should be part of the main storyline again and get some kind of redemption arc.

    For more general terms, I'm less concerned about having my expectations subverted and more about getting a satisfying ending. I've never boycotted a Star Wars movie, and I'm disappointed that boycotts may have partially lead to Solo's lackluster performance (IMHO the best Disney Star Wars movie). So I'll definitely see Episode IX, even if my expectations aren't nearly what they were for previous entries.
     
  5. vong333

    vong333 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 18, 2003
    This is what I have been waiting for. This kind of statement. There is the true star wars which is GL's and then there is Disney's. I believe that the true star wars story ended with ROTJ. I also believe that the Clone Wars series that GL worked on is official true star wars. Rebels.......not so much. Star Wars is good get me wrong, but GL's stuff no matter how corny is still true, you know why? Because he made them his self. He is star wars. Everything else is like a bud light, its less filling and taste great.
     
  6. Aximili86

    Aximili86 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2018
    Time to grow up, boys.
     
  7. Django Fett

    Django Fett Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 7, 2012
    Disillusioned or just plain hatred...seems an exaggerated reaction to one small part of a far larger story. The object for Disney and LFL is to make a film that draws in as big an audience as possible and they won't do that by continuing to alienate half of the potential audience.

    A story that reunites the fan base is a must, even if some hardcore lovers/haters are digging their heels in and either don't want change or won't accept that the trilogy can be salvaged in the final film. It's all about the bigger picture and what is right to get bums on seats, sell DVDs and BluRays and make the novelization a must read.
     
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  8. Dukeleto69

    Dukeleto69 Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2017
    The big problem for me is that JJ is back. IMO he is not a very good director. He is wholly unoriginal, derivative, a Spielberg wannabe, and is only everyone's darling because TFA did over $2bn BO. Yes he may have made some contribution to helping make that $2bn but in reality any new star wars movie after over a decade wait was going to make great BO. He ditched the chance of making a great new more original film by pretty much remaking ANH beat for beat - I don't think that is clever and frankly it set up problems for anyone else that followed him. Not saying I didn't enjoy TFA but original or new it was not. And don't get me started on his "mystery boxes" that is just plain lazy scriptwriting/film making...ie "wouldn't it be cool to have this in there, no it doesn't matter why, someone else can sort that out later" uuurrrghhhh!

    Next bad decision...only have Luke in the very last minute of the movie. What a wasted opportunity. If you are going to mirror ANH then why not (for example) have Luke captive on Starkiller and be rescued (yes Han/Finn/Chewie go to rescue Rey but guess who is also there refusing to give up the location of the First Jedi temple) have Luke witness Han be killed (like Obi Wan - history repeating) etc. Having more of Luke would have made the "death" of Luke more palatable in the second film. Possibly made it more powerful because the audience has spent more time with the character in his new older form. This would also be more of a gradual handing over of the baton to the next generation.

    Next bad decision (JJ + KK + RJ) - no time jump between TFA and TLJ. The SW saga has an established framework. There are time jumps between each film. That is a good creative vehicle as it enables you to progress the story by implying that "stuff has happened since you last saw these characters" enabling you to sidestep the need for lots of exposition or, what is happening in the ST, no explanation just accept it audience (Rey's skill levels for example).

    I was one of those who did not particularly like TLJ. I didn't hate it but there were parts of it I distinctly didn't like, the style of humour for one. Plus again, despite supporters saying the film is subversive etc it still wasn't original. The main plot is basically Battlestar Galactica! Come on LFL you can do better than that!

    Saying that I think having more Luke in TFA and having a time jump between both films would have waved away SOME of the problems. We could join Luke training Rey part way through. She is already advanced. Luke's reluctance would have been seen towards the end of TFA. They discovered the First Jedi Temple together (and it is THAT not Luke himself that Snoke and Kylo want to get hold of...the ancient lore).

    But that is all what if and wish listing because that is not where we are! So what would make EP.IX save things (btw I don't hate the ST at all but am just not that impressed with it and personally think Rogue One is the best Disney SW movie so far).

    1. Humour needs the right tone that fits better with the rest of the saga.
    2. We need an explanation for Rey's power. She can be random (even though personally I don't like that and for me it doesn't really fit with the saga, undoing that now will feel like fan pandering and cynical rather than planned all along - personally didn't want her to be a Skywalker but a Palpatine...hmmmm, but anyway, no retcon).
    3. We do not need Star Wars The Twilight saga so drop this whole Reylo rubbish and keep Adam's shirt on, jeez!
    4. Find a good way for Leia to bail out that actually feels as though that was the intention of the saga all along (tough one that for real world reasons so forgivable if not carried off - RIP Carrie)
    5. Finn needs to be useful and less of an idiot and actually do something that has a positive effect on the plot!
    6. It needs to be epic! The PT and OT were family sagas that impacted on the Galaxy as a whole. So far the ST really feel like a side plot in a dark corner of the Galaxy. They (well actually TLJ) feel much smaller rather than a pan generational pan galactic epic saga.
    7. Episode 9 does need to feel like "episode nine of the saga" not episode three of the ST and tie things back together.
    8. Luke does need something that finishes off his arc in a more satisfying way. Force Ghost might work I guess?

    Sure there is more but those jump out.
     
  9. Troy_Viszla

    Troy_Viszla Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 2, 2018
    I find the sequels pretty much pointless and uninspired
    There's no originality to it ... Rey, Finn and Poe are totaly one Dimensional Characters With no real purpose .
    Episode 9 has to be the best Movie ever to redeem the Sequel Trilogie.
     
  10. lookameatbag

    lookameatbag Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2014
    Well said, I stopped watching these movies after TLJ.
     
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  11. Lordban

    Lordban Isildur's Bane star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2000
    1. Good writing
    2. One of the foci being on wrapping up the Skywalker saga
    3. "Show, don't tell" political messages
     
  12. The-Clone-Wars

    The-Clone-Wars Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 27, 2002
    8 did not leave me jaded. I saw it as another Star Wars flick and it delighted. I approach 9 not as the sum of anything and everything. I don't hold it to incredibly high expectations. Instead I approach it as another film that can delight. Simply another chapter in the Skywalker Saga.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
  13. Dominus Libertas

    Dominus Libertas Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 23, 2016
    Take out the corny jokes

    Make sure there is a ton of LORE

    Have a spectacular lightsaber battle between Rey and Kylo

    Make the atmosphere and cinematography be like a cool GRAPHIC NOVEL

    Have beautiful planetary sceneries and not be in space all the time.

    The space chase in the Last Jedi ruined it in my book, they should have gotten rid of the hyperspace tracking and went to Chandrila where they could pick up the pieces of the Republic and acquire more allies and gunships. All the while providing beautiful core-world scenery.
     
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  14. Rodie

    Rodie Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 16, 2014
    I want a couple moments that make us actually cheer. I want that level of emotional investment in what's happening on screen. I want to be on the edge of my seat rooting for characters that make us feel something who are in situations that captivate us and settings and action sequences that dazzle our eyes and brains.

    I want to care about Rey again.

    I want Chewie and Lando in the Falcon side by side in the final space battle.

    I want more than two cameo Force Ghost appearances by Luke.

    I want JJ to handle Leia really smartly, maybe even break new ground in how she's incorporated into the film.

    I want Finn to be a hero and not a joke and for his Stormtrooper past to matter.

    I want a cameo from an old hologram recording of Palpatine, watched by Kylo seeking dark side guidance.

    I want the Knights of Ren to be real and to be scary intimidating.

    I want Kylo to have a vision or nightmare that includes his father Han in it.

    I want Kylo's arc to leave us breathless, challenged but entertained 100%.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
  15. Aximili86

    Aximili86 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2018

    Yeah, 'cause TLJ didn't do a deep-dive into lore or anything. Naah. [face_rofl]
     
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  16. Fredrik Vallestrand

    Fredrik Vallestrand Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    Just give me some new lore of the force and the jedi with some new ghost scenes from Luke and Yoda, and a cameo of Anakin. Have Rey be like Qui gon, one who listens to the will of the force.;) Kylo ren lives, but wish he had died and now is in maxium prison on Corusant, but shows their is still light in him and he has regrets. Leia is the new chancellor and the goverments have returned to Crorusant, a new policy is enected ensuring less be corrupted the end.
     
  17. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Have JJ Abrams personally visit every theater and provide free copies of Half Life 3 and Dragon Age IV.
     
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  18. Knight of Jedi Ren Sith

    Knight of Jedi Ren Sith Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2018
    I don't think it's fair to ask one film to undo all the damage done by The Last Jedi. Yes, it can and probably will help some, but it's probably going to take TV and books and maybe another trilogy to put the story back on track again.

    The problem was partially started with The Force Awakens. JJ just briefly introduced the story, and this would have been okay with a true, more traditional storyteller in charge of The Last Jedi. But instead LFL made the mistake of picking a genre subverter, someone less interested in worldbuilding than they are in subverting genre and story expectations. Rian would have been a better pick for another franchise, so we shouldn't blame him too much (although his misogynist portrayal of Rey should give other film companies pause before allowing him to write female characters).

    What can The Last Jedi do then? The challenge is to start telling a story without the movie feeling over explained. That's why I think the ultimate solution is in books and TV, and maybe a new trliogy. The short answer is: Star Wars needs worldbuilding to correct The Last Jedi. We need to know how Luke could end up like he did, so different from ROTJ, why his Jedi Order failed, and how it was different from the PT order. We need to know where Han and Leia had trouble with Ben, and why Ben was drawn to darkness, and where Snoke obtained his power, and who the Knights of Ren are, if important, and above all, we need to know why a new democracy can fail.

    I think one of the main problems with the ST is that it took place during the wrong period. They decided to show us the aftermath of the years following ROTJ, when what we needed to see were those years. However, doing that would have demanded recasts, which not many had the stomach for. The ST should have shown Luke in his struggles to rebuild the Jedi; it should have shown us Han and Leia struggling with Ben. It should have shown us the rebirth of darkness and the struggles of new democracy.

    Instead, they chose to give us a story that's not really as interesting. But the reason for telling someone a story is because there's something to tell. Here, there's just not much to tell; we skipped over the interesting parts.

    All of that can be corrected with some kind of new book series, or much better, a TV show that recasts the old heroes.
     
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  19. Aximili86

    Aximili86 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2018
    Discuss the topic or discuss how to be unbanned.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 13, 2019
  20. Krueger

    Krueger Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2004
    Discuss the topic or just don't click on the thread.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 13, 2019
  21. UK Sullustian

    UK Sullustian Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 18, 1998
    If they can't retcon TLJ (and TFA!) and bring back Luke and Han...

    Give us more Skywalker/Solo kids. Game of Thrones/Starks me up, please. I don't mind a few deaths then, as long as we have some Luke-soul and Han-sassy and Leia-everythingelseycausesheistheboss in some descendants - I would be mildly interested.
     
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  22. AhsokaSolo

    AhsokaSolo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2015
    I think for me, the thing that could really save the concept of the ST is if they introduce students of Luke that survived and aren’t evil. Even just one, like KR, would go a long way. It undermines TFA, but I never felt TFA would lead to Luke dying without a single light sider he trained surviving.

    And no, he didn’t train Rey. He only instructed her as to why the Jedi are terrible, then he let her win a fight using dark side tactics, then he died. If anything, he led her to the dark side.

    And the problem is, it’s the Skywalkers and Luke that need to bring back the Jedi. Not Rey Random. If they give it to Rey Random, to be wholly her legacy after the way she treated Luke just for Luke to die, it’s the final nail in the ST coffin for me. It too firmly finalizes LF undermining the message of GL’s six saga films. That’s not good storytelling imo. It’s unsatisfying. It just destroys the payoff of what those characters fought for, and I’m not here for that.

    But if, for example, KR or someone else is playing Luke’s first student post-RotJ that wasn’t at the temple during the massacre, and Rey seeks that person out for guidance, that person can carry Luke’s legacy and wisdom forward. Specifically, I’d like to see all the wisdom we assumed Luke would have after RotJ that wasn’t just mindless, traditional Jedi dogma. Luke challenged conventional wisdom and found his own path. The Jedi moving forward should reflect what he learned in the OT, even if he later lost his way again.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2019
  23. Thrawn082

    Thrawn082 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2014
    Proper world-building, the ST desperately needs some of that.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2019
  24. episodenone

    episodenone Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 13, 2001
    =D=
    I mean -- Solo rocked for me.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2019
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  25. Dominus Libertas

    Dominus Libertas Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 23, 2016
    The reason why we like the PT and OT a lot better than the ST is because of the lack of meat or substance that Lucas' movies has given us.
    The Force Awakens has a good amount of material that could have been used in the Last Jedi, such as Knights of Ren or the Guavian Death Gang, etc.,
    The Last Jedi was the perfect time to go to Chandrila a legacy core-world planet, where we could have seen the Resistance pick up pieces of the Republic instead of the boring hyperspace chase.
    If not introduce The Knights of Ren and save them for Episode IX then use the Guavian Death Gang as a minor antagonist the heroes have to overcome. Just so that there's a sense of continuity.
    The Last Jedi lacked so much lore and relevancy that it bastardized itself from the rest of the saga.
    Mark Hamill himself tried to warn us and absolutely hated how Luke was handled.
    But like you said all the lore and story connectivity can be told by books and shows.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2019