ST If you feel jaded, how can IX make you fall in love with Star Wars again?

I dunno, sharing snarky jokes with the fired director of ep 9 (who apparently had a story involving Luke Skywalker, because he apparently told it to Hamill who loved it) which seem to be poking out how ep 8 handled Luke Skywalker, after all his previous negative comments about it too, and referring to himself as unemployed and looking for a movie with a good director, kinda... says he's not going to be in the next one to me. I don't see what the joke would be about wanting to be in a kid's movie or why he'd pick that person and those specific tweets.

 

I never stopped loving SW, but I do not love or even like that much the ST. And at this point, I don't think IX will change that as it has to work with what was left from TFA and TLJ.

 

He and Trevorrow have become friends. Which makes sense. And Rian isn't directing 9 so Hamill can joke about Luke's depiction in TLJ all he wants. Hamill has also said great things about Rian post TLJ, so they are on good terms it seems. A little twitter joking won't change that.

You think Hamill is really picking this moment and this method to tell fans he's not in Episode 9? Doubt that very very much.

 

I did not hate Episode 8 but it did leave me not really caring about what happens next.
A far as I can see, the future of Star Wars movies is stand alone films like Rogue One and Solo. Liked them both, and if LF decided to stick to that then someday we would probably be pleasantly surprised when one smart dude drops a kick ass story that actually is meaty enough to require 3 movies to tell on LF's desk.
But we already know that's not going to happen.

 

B'obby E'wing - Twiek Jedi - Steps out of the shower, gets dressed and talks about his strange dream to his Mentor Jedi Master Luke Skywalker at the Jedi Temple on Coruscant before General Han Solo and Chancellor Leia come to visit their children studying at the Jedi academy.

Basically EU before all the Rancor riding force witches and evil space lizards.

UKS

 

What can Episode IX do to make me love SW again?

Well to be clear, I still love SW as much as before-I'm just not sure about what it is seemingly becoming. That said, I'd say there are a few things that could at least revive my interest in the ST:

1. Give Rey some PURPOSE-beyond trying to turn Kylo Ren, and for the love of God some backstory-anything, at ALL. Telling us at the end of film 2 of 3 that she doesn't matter is IMO the biggest let down and the least compelling choice from a story standpoint that could've possibly been made. I know I'm not alone here.

2. Include some emotionally gripping moments. I mean the moments where something is done by one of the characters-some sacrifice, grand act for good, or some victory or choice that actually makes a difference in the story-perhaps even the state of the galaxy as a whole. And I do NOT mean "shock value" moments, for gasps and "WTF!?!??!" reactions. Real, deep, moving moments that make our hearts swell. Darth Vader choosing to kill the emperor and save his son is a perfect example of this.

3. Don't make it a copy of the OT, but also don't stir !@#$ up, simply for the SAKE of stirring !@#$ up, and no other reason. This is what mostly ruined TLJ for me.

4. Include just a few classic, Star Wars-y, Lucasfilm retro elements that kind of take us back. A great example of this is the supposed rumor of the dinner with Jabba's son, with all the weird food and music and stuff. IMO, TFA did a really good job with this idea.

5. Do things on a grander scale. Let's see more of the galaxy, lets see larger military forces. I'm not just talking about having mindless action, but as the third/final installment in a trilogy, it needs to go out with a bang! ROTS and ROTJ both did this. I'd like to see Episode IX do it too.

5. In a word: PAYOFF. Do NOT end with a cliffhanger, but rather a full on, celebratory ending with an actual satisfying resolution to the story, that at least accomplishes/celebrates SOMETHING in this (so far) depressingly moody trilogy.



Honestly, if we get kind of a mix between the tone and aesthetic of both TFA and TLJ, only on a bit grander scale-and with some much needed character development, then I will love this film-and it may cause me to see the ST as much more enjoyable as a whole.

 

If you are jaded just hope that some film will to bring you back. It could not be ep IX, it could be new film, it could be TV series, something that will hit you.

I know that feeling. I was that jaded person 15 years ago. When I watched prequels for the first time I just felt that it was all just wrong, I didnt even watch Ep III in cinema and I was thinking that SW is just gone for me. But about 5 years ago i watched some clone wars, then I went for TFA not expecting anything special and suddenly TFA brought me back. I watched TFA in cinema 3 times (most times in cinema since Matrix) , then there was R1, then TLJ and now all I can say is that Disney SW is MY SW. I just love it. 15 years ago I thought all magic is gone, but look at me now. I'm in cinema again, Im buying discs again, I'm even on SW forum discussing SW.

 

If I replied to this guy, I'd get banned for life!

You answered him well. Good work!

 

Give Rey more depth and realism

Let Finn be a competent hero with purpose who's taken seriously (force sensitive or not)

Plenty of trio moments

Plenty of Rey and Finn dynamic

Stormtrooper Uprising

Show Poe being an exceptional leader

Either let Kylo be a real threat to the protagonist or make Ben's redemption believable and realistic

Give Hux a death that's satisfying to watch (from either Kylo or Finn)

Lando cameo would be nice but other than that, please no more OT characters. Show the younger generation stepping up without their support (or legacy degradation)


EDIT: It's pretty much now or never honestly. TLJ left a very very horrid taste in my mouth for characters I'd like to appreciate and it'll take a lot to gain that appreciation back completely. JJ and other cast members have said that he had a plan for each of the characters post-TFA, so hopefully if he sticks with those plans, it'll be worth it.

EDIT 2: Give me a reason to look forward to more ST hero stories post IX.

 

For the first time ever, I really don't know. TFA teased a lot of promise, but sadly for me anyway, TLJ drove the story into a corner, and I don't quite know how they will bring it back. I hope they can.

 

I'm concerned that I might become more jaded about the saga if the following happens:

1) Wasting the sacrifices that the OT3, and Rey, all made for Ben Solo by increasing his evil and killing him.

2) Ending several famous bloodlines — including the possibility of seeing a way to keep the Kenobi bloodline alive when most assumed it was dead — in this longrunning soap opera in space to make way for less bloodlines and several people who guy by first names only.

3) Wasting opportunities to better tie the ST toward the earlier episodes in some kind of easy to understand statement. I want Rey to be a Kenobi so that the saga starts with the grandfathers drifting apart because of romantic complications that lead Anakin to the Dark Side and for the ST to be about how the grandchildren of those two came together and for romantic complications leading the grandson of Anakin to find his way out of darkness. I want this also so that he OT remains its own father & son story in the middle.

4) Failing to deliver some pleasant surprises at the end like Rey realizing at the end that the junkers merely found her in a ship wreck that she later ties to a ship owner named Kenobi. Or failing to show us Finn finding his parents. Or failing to show us Rey starting to rebuild the temple. Or failing to show us Anakin and Obi-Wan watching the next generation find balance.

5) Failing to bring Hamill back in a Force ghost role and failing to have a moment where Rey converses with him about her regrets and apologizing for leaving him without a ship and being impatient and that then leading to Luke telling her his own regrets for his earlier decisions. This moment is as important in some ways as the follow-up from Luke & Obi-Wan in ROTJ where Luke asks him why he told him what he did. It’s an important scene that will show the audience that Rey did have a negative setback she regrets and that Luke was the same & see these two come together more in IX as mentor and student so that when we go back and watch VIII we know that as rocky as the start between them is... it leads to a stronger bond later.

6) Wasting the incredible antagonistic potential of the Knights of Ren by again ignoring them and thus implying they are only a part of the past and all dead beyond him. The compressed time frame of VII & VIII is such that it’s only about a week. It would be so easy to explain that the K O R were out on a mission from Snoke over that span and to have them return and function initially as part of Ben Solo’s guard. This would make the antagonism feel stronger and harder to beat and could set up a betrayal of the K O R & Hux later that pushes Ben Solo into an uneasy ally of the Resistance sooner so that his redemption occurs over a longer period of time than Vader’s did.

 

If you feel jaded, how can IX make you fall in love with Star Wars again?

It can't for me, I'm done with the 'saga' films, spin offs are all I'm interested in now

 

Look at it the other way. Ignoring some fans' suspicions, everyone involved with TLJ has said the story was pretty much set from the first draft. So if Luke's death was set that long ago, it was before Trevorrow began his story for IX. So when Trevorrow made his big plans for Luke in IX, he did so knowing that Luke was going to die in TLJ. Would Luke have been a Force Ghost or come back in the flesh? We'll probably never know. But the fact that Trevorrow always said he had big plans for Luke in IX means that the plan was to use the character after his death. This could still be the case under JJ (though he'll probably mystery box Luke in IX even harder than he did for TFA).

 

For starters, turn the trilogy into at least a tetralogy (heck, even make that an hexalogy through RJ's trilogy if necessary). Ep. VIII didn't provide anything significant in the way of worldbuilding - on the contrary, it spent a lot of time tearing down what did exist, reducing the Rebellion to 40 people on 1 freighter. Its lead - Rey - not only didn't receive any character development whatsoever, several hooks to make her story interesting were also taken away. It lacks a proper villain - the still-conflicted Kylo, who isn't even dark enough to move past Force-pushes and property destruction when frustrated, does not fit the bill in the world of Darth Sidious and Darth Vader.

There's just too much to reconstruct after Ep. VIII to do that and provide satisfying resolution to the current trilogy if they're shooting for a good ending. On the other end, if this trilogy stops on a Rey sorely lacking in guidance and already abusing the Force finally falling and taking over the First Order, crushing Kylo Ren under her heel in the process to become an actually fearsome villain, like the aforementioned Darths, I'm in. The next trilogy can then tell the story of how the resulting disastrous situation was fixed - like, even if they were published in reverse order, the OT's story is about fixing what happened in the PT.

 

In all honesty, for me, the death of Luke Skywalker is the end of the SW story. It's just over.

But boy did I loved SW and got to live through the very best of times to be a SW fan. Maybe some other movie like RO which I thought was the best SW movie in 30 years would interest me again but not IX.

 

I simply cannot. No one from the studio is going to admit to making the story up as they go along. Perhaps at one time they did or had a "vision," but TLJ derailed it in some manner. Trevorrow has implied that there were significant rewrites to TLJ's ending at the last minute. I am inclined to believe it not only because of Trevorrow and his rumored use of Luke but since Rey, the main protagonist, disappearing for the Crait battle was always weird. It doesn't feel like a cohesive story, and I can't look past it with evidence piling up of mad scrambling.

 

But they already have admitted to making it up as they go along. There was no plan laid out for the ST and they've said as much. Johnson wasn't given an outline or plot points for TLJ and neither was Trevorrow for IX. They've been surprisingly open about that. By all accounts TLJ had an extremely trouble free production and was completed early, certainly not a mad scramble.

When has Trevorrow implied that TLJ was significantly re-written? The closest I can think of is when it was rumoured that Trevorrow basically disliked everything that divided people in TLJ (but specifically Luke) and was removed, in part, because of this clash of visions. But that rumour said nothing about TLJ being re-written to kill Luke, in fact it said Trevorrow requested it be re-written to leave him alive but was turned down. And we've not seen anything from Trevorrow himself confirming any of this.

He's always been very open that his version of IX had large roles for Luke and Leia, even at a time when he would have known what was planned for Luke in TLJ. To me that says Luke was intended to play a large role in IX even after his death. Hopefully that's still the case.

 

A good movie can overcome many things but I don't think a real good movie can be made with what happened in Ep 8. I don't think so anyway. I have a feeling Lucasfilm really regrets some decisions they made for Ep 8 now.

 

How about this, IX can have Abeloth come into the fray as a result of the First Order- Resistance conflict, causing the two factions to band together to stop her. She puts a good fight against the main characters but then Ezra Bridger and Ahsoka Tano return from the unknown regions to save everyone, causing Abeloth to retreat. As the film progresses we learn that Abeloth was behind the destruction of an older universe (Legends timeline) and seeks to be rid of the current one in order to remake the galaxy into her own image. To do this, she seeks the world between worlds from Rebels which serves as the setting of the climax where Ezra, Ahsoka, Rey, and Kylo slay her but all the fighting causes damage to the realm, threatening to destroy all of space and time so our heroes use the force to mend what was damaged and in doing so, they bring back the universe previously destroyed by Abeloth, merging it into their own, which creates a new Expanded Universe which is sort of an amalgamation of all the better stories from Legends and the current canon.

 

And all continuity clashes of 40 years become official canon.

I'll take it!

 

If it means we won't get any stories where Luke Skywalker tries to murder any of his family members, I'll happily accept .

 

I am agreeing with you on the first point. I misread the original post, not realizing that was in specific to TLJ and not the whole ST. I took it as one of the "but I know they had the story mapped out!!" blanket statements, as one of the main criticisms of the ST is that is does not feel like a cohesive story. People love to point out that LFL had to have had master plan of where they would like the characters to go, but I simply do not think that is true.

Colin Trevorrow did not say that TLJ had significant rewrites outright, but rather he implied it. He was joking around on Twitter about a movie his son was making (is it real? I have no idea), while using it to vent his frustration with what happened with Star Wars very passive aggressively.



Again, based on what Trevorrow has said about wanting to use Luke, and the fact that I still can't get past Rey--the "hero"--awkwardly disappearing for much of the big finale, I tend to believe him that there were massive rewrites taking place last minute in regard to Luke's role and possibly death.

 

Totally agree on the planning front. I think they made some noises implying they had at least vague ideas planned out around the time of TFA but Johnson said from the beginning he was given a clean slate to go wherever he wanted with TLJ so we know there was no set direction for the ST.

That's fair enough. I guess I read that more as a dig at them not re-writing Luke (something he allegedly requested) or just him joking around with Mark Hamill.

I think Rey had less of a role in the finale as it was required for Luke's big moment. Rey may be the hero of the ST but TLJ felt like it was Luke's movie, so for me it made sense that he got the focus in the finale. But I can see why that didn't work for others.

 

A better writer could have done both.

 

The smart money says pit Luke against Snoke. Snoke has pretty much singled him out as his prime nemesis and the first film all but rings the Pavlovian Bell for a showdown between the 2. That leaves the remaining conflict to be sorted by the next generation- Rey and Kylo. Luke and Snoke essentially destroy each other (Luke bests him, but the effort required, alongside his old age and weakness from isolation still does him in, just like in TLJ current)