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Lit Ignorance is Bias: The Diversity Manifesto

Discussion in 'Literature' started by CooperTFN, Sep 2, 2012.

  1. Cynical_Ben

    Cynical_Ben Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 12, 2013
    Well, some people are still under the impression that crudity is clever comedy. Which explains why Adam Sandler still makes movies.
     
  2. Todd the Jedi

    Todd the Jedi Mod and KENOBEEHHH Herald of SWTV and Lit star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Done well it can be. But that's pretty rare really. Monty Python was really great at it back in the day.
     
  3. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    Because no one needs to be protected from nipples more than children.

    [​IMG]
     
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  4. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    I can actually understand the use of that picture since it is the only official SW pic that shows non-covered female breast
     
  5. JediMara77

    JediMara77 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 5, 2004

    Yeaaah, that's how how the article was intended. There's no reason for there to even be an article about breasts there, except to "titillate". Not unless they have one on penises, testicles, vaginas, etc. etc.
     
  6. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    Wook people would say that if there were references to penises in SW books, there would be. Which, IMO, is a Wook problem more than anything else.
     
  7. Mat Skywalker

    Mat Skywalker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 8, 2005
    I think a 8 year old is a little old for breast feeding, hence why I say kids and not babies.
     
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  8. Cynical_Ben

    Cynical_Ben Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 12, 2013
    Indeed. It can be done well. Problem is, it rarely is. And some creators don't seem to find the effort needed to be clever or creative and still funny relevant when it's easier just to say a few synonyms for bodily functions and chortle all the way to the bank.
     
  9. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    What I have seen of Hickman's Avengers it seems to be big on high-concept ideas and low on story that make you care about the characters and I really don't like the whole "Avengers are the only one that matters" thing that he had in Infinity
     
  10. JediMara77

    JediMara77 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 5, 2004

    I seem to recall Xizor's manhood being displayed prominently during Shadows of the Empire. See-through outfit and all.
     
  11. TrakNar

    TrakNar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 4, 2011
    I had nothing to do with the prank this year.

    Personally, I would've done something different, if I could've come up with something different months in advance. What tends to happen is that the pranks are done last-minute. If any pranks require artwork from me, I'd prefer they be figured out at the very least a month in advance so I have time to finalize it and produce something decent.

    The best pranks I feel are the subtle ones and the plausible ones. The pranks we've had lately have not been either.
     
  12. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    So make the article. Be bold, as they say. :D

    But seriously, I do get what you're saying and I recognize the sexism of it; if I were the Ultimate Wookieepedia Overlord there probably wouldn't be articles for body parts. But as I've recently demonstrated at some length, the prudish "think of the children!" attitude gets under my skin way more than the double standard. Sometimes you can only win one battle or the other.
     
  13. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    Honestly, I think the internet institutionalizing April Fool's Day has been a Very Bad Thing overall.
     
  14. Sniper_Wolf

    Sniper_Wolf Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2002
    Reading the posts and links about con attendees' behaviors, I'm wondering if you guys could indulge this con virgin/rare comic book shop patron.

    The influx of women into cons are really causing the stated behavior outside of approaches for sex? If infantile reactions to women similar to pre-pubescent women have cooties so stay out of our club house is the norm then I'm sadden at geek stereotypical behavior validated though concurrently I'm not surprised.

    Second, are the allegations of discrimination against queers- can someone also explain to me the addition sign added to LGBT list of initials- common enough in your con experiences? My dissatisfaction with the direction of the gay rights movement has kept me away from news and such.
     
  15. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    Valid.
     
  16. JediMara77

    JediMara77 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 5, 2004

    I agree. You can protest against the prudishness, I'll protest the double standards/sexism. Deal?
     
  17. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
  18. Mat Skywalker

    Mat Skywalker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 8, 2005
    I get that, I totally do. But my 10 year old nephew also frequents the site as much I do. So yeah if I seem prudish I'm not saying it for the sake of acting like one.
     
  19. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    And what, precisely, is the negative effect you believe the article would have on him?
     
  20. Mat Skywalker

    Mat Skywalker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 8, 2005
    I didn't say anything about it being negative but I rather he be a little older when he sees a naked human body or in this case a twi-lek's. But whatever.
     
  21. TrakNar

    TrakNar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 4, 2011
    In defense of the image of Aayla's exposed breast, I had gone to great lengths to prevent its removal from the Wook. It was deemed as an artistic nude, as that is exactly what it is. I, personally, find the image to be very tasteful and well done, and the artist has painted many, many other works in the same vein. I admire the style and the texture work on the kimono is something that I'd like to learn to do myself.

    What I don't like, however, is that the image has become a flag that the Wook can wave around. "Look at what we have! We are allowed to keep this boobie and we can do with it what we please! We can force it upon you and you can't say boo about it!"

    I did not work to keep the image to turn it into that. I worked to keep it for the sole purpose of properly illustrating an article (that could see some improvement other than gratuitous sexualizing because it's there to use), and because it's not a pornographic image. It is an artistic nude.

    That said, how do I feel about kids seeing it? I've seen art nudes when I was a kid and I have no problem with them whatsoever. It's art. I will make an attempt to hide my art books from my niece and nephews, but really I'm just paying lip service to their parents' wishes. My niece and nephews have looked through my art books without my knowledge, usually when they visit and zero in on them. They're not corrupted and they tend to take a "eww, a butt!" stance on it, much like I did when I was a kid.
     
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  22. Mat Skywalker

    Mat Skywalker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 8, 2005
    TrakNar
    Perhaps you're right, it is a form of art and I'm probably thinking too rashly about it.
     
  23. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    Regardless, I don't think this "prank" does anything good for Wookieepedia. Kinda juvenile (and actually reinforcing the whole prudishness phenomenon, really) even without the sexism.
     
  24. Zeta1127

    Zeta1127 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Indeed, they could have just stuck with the Wookieepedia Pro and Pro Plus scenario, and it would have been fine, but no they had to get idiotic.
     
  25. patchworkz7

    patchworkz7 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2004

    I admit to not understanding the + (or * thing) but a quick google gives me:

    https://www.uwsuper.edu/genderequity/glbt/index.cfm

    I've never run into anyone in the real world that insists on the plus designation but it's been a long time since my college days...and who am I to complain about how someone wants to self-identify?

    Hope that helps.

    As to the reaction against LGBTQ at conventions...I would assume this is a thing. I honestly don't know, but I have overheard the usual **** about bronies and smack talk about certain fandoms and when they don't line up with certain gender norms you get the slurs a flowing, and I've seen cosplayers who genderflip get some ****...but I can't talk to the extent.

    What's slightly unsettling is that I think there's a part of me so used to hearing some of this **** that I automatically tune it out (and it does't help that without my BAHA I'm partly deaf...so I miss stuff anyways and cons blur into white noise quite a bit), but even if there's some toxic elements I see a lot of people working very hard to change the perception and the reality of conventions, fwiw.