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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit Ignorance is Bias: The Diversity Manifesto

Discussion in 'Literature' started by CooperTFN, Sep 2, 2012.

  1. Erik_B

    Erik_B Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 11, 2014

    I really don't think it is going to help anyone to try to replace unrealistic standards of beauty with unrealistic standards of politically correct thinking.

    I've never met anyone who can make it through more than two hours without thinking black thoughts about someone. Or finding some low humor funny. Or thinking lustful thoughts.

    Could anyone here live in the Brave New World proposed? Would you want to?
     
    Katarn's Beard likes this.
  2. The Loyal Imperial

    The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 19, 2007
    I suppose it's a good thing, then, that nobody is proposing anything remotely like what you describe.
     
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  3. Erik_B

    Erik_B Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 11, 2014
    If you say so.
     
  4. _Catherine_

    _Catherine_ Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 16, 2007
    I can't think of a better image they could have used on that page.
     
    Point Given likes this.
  5. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    Frankly, I'm about one more absurd strawman away from declaring him an outright fake who is merely pretending to be a bitter, fear-mongering bigot for the lulz.
     
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  6. jSarek

    jSarek VIP star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2005
    Ah, so that's Olioster. At least now I know what handle goes with that name.

    Yeah, my own presence on the site has been greatly diminished over the past year or two, mostly due to work reasons, but I'm also ... uncomfortable with some of the direction the site is taking in general.

    Too tired to try and tackle other posts line by line, so ... TrakNar, thank you for your efforts. I simply haven't had them in me for a while.

    patchworkz7 , GrandAdmiralJello, pretty much anything that's officially published without the Infinities label, or obvious non-canonical elements, is canon. There's nothing particularly obviously non-canonical about that image, so it's canonical unless established otherwise. And there is a reason to have the image in our article - to illustrate the topic of the article as clearly and unambiguously as possible.

    But yes, Jello, the AFD shenanigans are quite telling. I think the Trash compactor discussion is also edifying. This is where I was convinced the article didn't need to be deleted, but I still couldn't bring myself to make a Keep vote, because I frankly didn't trust my own ability to look beyond my privilege.

    Erik_B , you're not going to scare me with that phrase, "politically correct." It gets used as a cheap and lazy way to bully others into dropping critiques of privilege. Well, tough. If I have to be politically correct to be a decent human being, one that recognizes my privileged position in society and the inherent value of other people who lack my privilege, than nothing will make me prouder than to be politically correct. And, as Loyal Imperial pointed out, your fears are built upon a foundation made of straw, straw culled from a dozen straw men that have zero resemblance to anything anyone here has said about our future, ideal or otherwise.
     
  7. Erik_B

    Erik_B Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 11, 2014
    I'd swear one can recognize the inherent value of other people while still recognizing that one, like everyone else on the planet, likes hearing stories about idealised versions of yourself and idealised sexual partners.

    Cause if being a good person requires that you not like looking at pictures of pretty girls (or whatever you are in to), there ain't no good people in the world.
     
  8. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    It's funny how little this has to do with anything being said in the actual conversation that's actually going on.

    (Although honestly I don't like hearing stories about idealized people of any sort. They're boring.)
     
  9. sharkymcshark

    sharkymcshark Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2013

    a) I have no idea what you're talking about

    b) The bolded passage above is a massive assumption on your part

    c) You seem to be under the assumption that posters in this thread don't like the idea of thinking sexual thoughts about people. This is incorrect.
     
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  10. The Loyal Imperial

    The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 19, 2007
    I don't know who you think you're having a conversation with, but it's certainly not anyone here, because not one word you've written resembles a response to anything posted in this thread so far.
     
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  11. Point Given

    Point Given Manager star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2006
    We're talking about Wookiepedia being tasteless, not what you find attractive Erik_B.
     
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  12. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    To be fair, he was responding to a different line of discussion about unrealistic standards of beauty (starting with the Onion article that was posted).




    Missa ab iPhona mea est.
     
  13. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    [​IMG]
     
  14. MercenaryAce

    MercenaryAce Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Still strikes me as a non-sequitur, especially given that Brave New World featured things such as using genetic engineering to make everyone conform to unrealistic standards of beauty and nothing that I can remember on political correctness.

    I think Harrison Bergeron is more the kind of story one would use then.
     
  15. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    That's not so much a non sequitur (since we, in fact, know precisely where it came from) but rather a poorly deployed literary reference.

    None too surprising though. Heck, look at the totally inappropriate quote from the Aeneid that they used for the 9/11 memorial just because it sounded nice entirely out of context.


    Missa ab iPhona mea est.
     
  16. MercenaryAce

    MercenaryAce Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Never heard of that before, but the context...wow....that does change some things.
     
  17. Erik_B

    Erik_B Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 11, 2014
    I was thinking of the futility of trying to make enjoying tasteless jokes a thoughtcrime.

    Enacting a prohibition on looking at pictures of people you find attractive surely isn't going to work any better than the attempt at alcohol prohibition. And would anyone really want to live in a world where it did?
     
  18. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 3, 2013
    Ahem.

    An edit: Theron is, in fact, bisexual. The first male in SWTOR to be so, I might add. All the other same-gender romance males have been same-gender only before now, never bisexual.
     
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  19. _Catherine_

    _Catherine_ Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 16, 2007
    Representation = Censorship
     
  20. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    You know who else hated the breast article? Hitler.
     
  21. MercenaryAce

    MercenaryAce Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Also, Thoughtcrime is 1984, not Brave New World.

    And I feel the need to point out that even amongst heterosexual men, standards of sexiness differ. I certainly wouldn't mind if there was more representation of the kind of women I find attractive.
     
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  22. The Loyal Imperial

    The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 19, 2007
    I'm not sure following that kind of logic would be as beneficial as you think it would.
     
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  23. Erik_B

    Erik_B Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 11, 2014
    So what is your action plan in case stereotypical comic book nerds don't enjoy looking at:-

    [​IMG]

    more than:-


    [​IMG]
     
  24. MercenaryAce

    MercenaryAce Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2005
    I am not claiming it is beneficial at all.

    Just one of a million reasons that defending the uniformity of female depictions with "but we want sexy" is not only morally bankrupt, but doesn't even make sense.

    Appeal to different customers.

    So many of the problems with comic books can be traced to the same core of fans at the expense of alienating everyone else.
     
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  25. JediMara77

    JediMara77 Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 5, 2004

    So the only reason some guy would pick up Ms. Marvel is because he enjoys looking at the lead character (a teenage girl, mind you)? The story has nothing to do with it?

    Yeah, there's no problem here at all.
     
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