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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit Ignorance is Bias: The Diversity Manifesto

Discussion in 'Literature' started by CooperTFN, Sep 2, 2012.

  1. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    Honestly, my immediate take is yes to the first, no to the second. The responses are as over-simplifying as you'd expect from a not-terribly-in-depth medium like Twitter (in particular, I feel like Val was egregiously underused in Solo and it's a big problem to conflate her with other characters), but by that same point tweeting is literally the least an incredibly powerful company like Disney can do. Like, I guess, from a totally binary "should this exist or not" stance my answer would be yes, but only as a start.

    (Honestly, I have no idea whether or not Disney is in fact doing anything beyond just tweeting, so I wouldn't automatically condemn them... but it's hardly unreasonable to suspect a big company of engaging in lip-service faux-wokeness and then moving on.)

    FWIW I will say to that last part that personally I think having all brands send out the exact same message rings better than a half-dozen slightly differently worded variants. The latter would still potentially ring as hollow and perfunctory, and at least the former gives off a stronger impression, to my mind.
     
  2. Jeff_Ferguson

    Jeff_Ferguson Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 15, 2006
    Yeah, that's just it. That tweet won't amount to anything more than "Thoughts and Prayers" if it's their endgame, and it's still too early to ascertain whether or not they will do anything meaningful beyond patting themselves on the back for being brave enough to post vaguely-worded support on the internet. Like you say, Disney probably has more ability than any other corporation in the entire world to help amplify the voices of the powerless, and like @Vthuil says, tweeting is literally the least they can do and is hopefully only a start.

    It's also interesting to contrast it with the more-direct message tweeted by The Simpsons, another property that falls somewhere within the Disney umbrella:



    They explicitly say Black Lives Matter. And it's not even so much that that's refreshing as it is that people refusing to say it has become maddening. Hell, the "All Lives Matter" strawman is still so widespread --- I found out that Chris Jericho recently commented "All Lives Matter" on an Instagram post and even blocked on Twitter at least one person who calmly tried to educate him, and I can't express how deeply, deeply disappointed I am.

    The two areas probably intertwine more than most people realize, and I think a lot of people would be more likely to assume good faith from Disney and SW right now if they had spent the past few years, well... doing better. I also feel like frank discussion of The Last Jedi's horrid treatment of Finn was largely absent for a long time due to a desire to give as little ground to the trolls as possible, but ever since Episode 9 did him even dirtier, I've seen a lot of people feel freer to talk about how terribly the ball was dropped with him as soon as he was put into that bacta thing at the end of TFA.

    In any case, let's... keep watching.
     
  3. Daneira

    Daneira Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 30, 2016
  4. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    I think the message to be learned from Star Wars right now with this issue is just how important it is to have diverse voices represented in creative, in the nitty-gritty part of story-construction.

    I mean, I’d say that Claudia Gray has been an absolute boon to the Expanded Universe in the Disney Era in part because she’s better able to consistently construct strong female characters, whether they be one-half of a tragic love story, background characters, Leia in a political thriller, or Holdo in a story that people seemed to like for her much better than her film one. In general, she’s just been a lot better at handling women characters than most of the new films.

    LFL kind of needs to cultivate and seek out more diverse creators overall.
     
  5. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    If there are 100 things Disney could do in this moment (and the cross-post makes it clear it wasn't a SW-led decision), and #100 is nothing, the tweet was #99. It truly is better than nothing, and when you've got millions of followers even the most bland statement of support is going to mean a lot to some people, but "the most bland statement of support" is indeed what it was.

    But that said, this is Disney. I don't know what people expect them to do that would be meaningful in a way that comports with their actual power and influence in the society people are protesting. Even if they threw a million dollars at some bail fund that's the kind of money they lose in their couch cushions. It'd be nice but it wouldn't make them heroes.

    And as far as LFL in particular is concerned I kind of wonder if there isn't bigger stuff to focus on right now than their story choices. I can at least say that I haven't seen much of that on Twitter lately versus discussion of the real harm being done to real people. And trying to map the last week onto any conversation about pop culture is, uh, fraught at best.

    ETA: Meanwhile...

     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
  6. vncredleader

    vncredleader Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 28, 2016
    I remember a meme a year ago that showed like....the Aladdin reboot and some other incremental things and was like "disney responds to the racists with a black ariel, no other company would be this woke and progressive"

    and I went into a freaking tirade over disney's history of labor abuses, copy-writing freaking phrases of other languages, white-washing walt, the "good rich white family in new orleans" from Princess and the Frog, all the MCU stuff, etc etc etc.

    This about sums up why I pulled my hair out over that, disney is not just an unfeeling, evil corporation, it is an unfeeling, evil corporation that constantly gets people to treat it like a friend and ally. It has nestled itself into this position in which nuts screaming about SJWs over disney doing what is the most minimal bit of basic decency 20 years ago, causes hoards of people to proclaim disney as this bulwark against hate and inequality. People are so desperate to perform, that disney has now made performativeness into not just a cottage industry, but a megalith.

    People who otherwise are more than happy to talk about things being problematic, are suddenly on the defensive for disney against say, Maori people who did not like the tattoos in Moana cause they hold a religious significance that was uncomfortable to have replicated onto a fictitious person for someone else to profit from

    It is considered taboo and extremely disrespectful in many Pacific cultures to wear the markings of a people or place that you are not spiritually or physically connected to. After the release of Moana, Maui may be a Disney character to some, but to many Pacific people, he is very real - a hero, ancestor, demi-God and a spiritual guide.

    Even for Pacific people who don't believe in Maui, replicating a Polynesian tattoo and offering it to children for a price is belittling and trivializing an intimate aspect of Pacific people and culture.
    Good that Moana is diverse and truly a step forward as Lindsay Ellis wonderfully discussed in her video on the conflicting feels over it being better than Pocahontas, but having so much farther to go. But people don't pass around this article even though they would for any other company. Cause the appearance of the culture being "visible" on the tattoos is cool for the liberal audience, but the pushback at that voyeuristic commodification of their culture by non-celebrity members of that culture is ignored or fought against.
     
  7. Todd the Jedi

    Todd the Jedi Mod and Loving Tyrant of SWTV, Lit, & Collecting star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2008
    I mean, god, that also sums up most corporations' responses to the COVID pandemic, or as they like to call it Difficult Times™.
     
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  8. Jeff_Ferguson

    Jeff_Ferguson Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 15, 2006
    I was beginning to doubt it, but it turns out there actually is a way to post a white-text-on-black-background image and have it say something meaningful:

     
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  9. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
     
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  10. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    John Boyega gave a great speech. https://www.etonline.com/john-boyeg...g-black-lives-matter-protest-in-london-147582

    Earlier in his speech, Boyega also stressed how important it is "that we keep control of this movement," and make it as peaceful as possible.

    "Black lives have always mattered. We have always been important," he said. "We have always meant something. We have always succeeded regardless. And now is the time. I ain't waiting!"
     
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  11. Jedi Comedian

    Jedi Comedian Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 27, 2012
    The thing I take from the Disney tweet is this: yes, as @CooperTFN said, it's the very least they could do. But the fact that they are doing it says something very important: major corporations, usually the most conservative of groups, are publicly supporting this message. They wouldn't do that if they didn't think that making that statement would pay off for them financially. If the biggest media company on the planet is willing to support this cause, even in the most minor way possible, then it means that the tide is turning, and we're becoming the winning side.

    So no, Disney don't deserve praise for making this statement. But it is symptomatic of a greater cultural shift that we should be happy about.
     
  12. Jeff_Ferguson

    Jeff_Ferguson Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 15, 2006
    John Boyega. What a fricking awesome man. He's been such a delight to follow on Twitter lately, even before all of this kicked off --- he's had a very strong vibe of not giving a **** now that his SW commitments are finished and of having no time at all for trolls or haters. There's so much to admire about him, and this speech is yet another feather in his cap.

    From Sky News:

    I woke up this morning to a Twitter notification that Coop and someone else had retweeted Jordan Peele's elegant and supportive response:

     
  13. Barriss_Coffee

    Barriss_Coffee Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2003
    The full speech is worth watching:



    I've rarely been so proud of a celebrity before -- it took a lot more than guts to get up there and give this speech. This guy's a true hero.
     
  14. Jeff_Ferguson

    Jeff_Ferguson Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 15, 2006
    Re: Disney's donations, I think that Comedian has hit the nail on the head --- sure, it's pocket change to them, but it's still five million dollars. Even if it's not a lot of money to the entertainment industry's largest monolith, it's a lot of money to the causes to whom they'll be donating. And yeah, the very fact that it's happening definitely represents a cultural shift for the good. It's taking things beyond meaningless "Thoughts and Prayers" social media posts and, to use an Allstonism, suiting action to words.

    But if corporate statements of support are still worth anything even without monetary accompaniment, I think it's very fair to say that Ben and Jerry's takes the cake.

    (Ice cream cake, of course).
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2020
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  15. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    Thought this might fit here:
     
  16. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    Worried not so much about John's career being affected than by his (and all these other fine people's) health being affected. Covid 19 is still out there. I know they knew the risks and felt protesting was important anyway, and good for them, but in this cruel world one often gets punished for doing the right thing. Hopefully John and these other protesters will be fine though.
     
  17. Jedi Comedian

    Jedi Comedian Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 27, 2012
    It is absolutely the worst time possible for people to be out protesting, especially given that black people are more likely to die from Covid-19 than white people, and also due to the fact that hospitals are already stretched to breaking point and unable to treat any injuries sustained. Which is not to say that people shouldn't be out protesting, just that this is an awful rock and a hard place to be between.
     
  18. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    While no one can obviously do a poll of the protesters, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of them are unemployed and have the attitude of "well maybe I'm about to die or go bankrupt anyway, I'm still even being targeted by the police in a pandemic, what do I have to lose now?"
     
  19. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    Thought this might fit here:
     
  20. Slater

    Slater Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Oct 12, 2014


    Dave's a real good dude.
     
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  21. Todd the Jedi

    Todd the Jedi Mod and Loving Tyrant of SWTV, Lit, & Collecting star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2008
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  22. vncredleader

    vncredleader Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 28, 2016
    On disney, they also assist with copaganda and of course get massive amounts of help from the US military, so this militarized police state is something they are all to happy to support. *Cough* captain marvel is air force propaganda *cough*
     
  23. Jedi Comedian

    Jedi Comedian Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 27, 2012
    Just Write has a great video on the history of military propaganda in the MCU:

     
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  24. vncredleader

    vncredleader Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 28, 2016
    Oh thanks, seems neat
     
  25. Senpezeco

    Senpezeco Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Oh hey, I missed this year's nominations announcement, but Doctor Aphra just won at the 31st!