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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit Ignorance is Bias: The Diversity Manifesto

Discussion in 'Literature' started by CooperTFN, Sep 2, 2012.

  1. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Guest

    True...Although I will say that when certain people are "Angry" at Star Wars....That's normally a good sign. It be easier if they walk away but I'll enjoy their anger to a extent even when it gets insufferable
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 3, 2021
  2. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    Just like they are all trying to walk away from the MLB. No when people say they are walking away they barely walk away ever
     
  3. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    As to the idea if people being angry at SW being good - No, the kind of activity we're seeing isn't healthy. It'd be better for these individuals to find stuff they enjoy and replace SW with that.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2021
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  4. FiveFireRings

    FiveFireRings Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2017
    I totally wish they would. But the insane thing -- well, one of the insane things -- about this particular brand of toxic fandom is that its ideals will *never* be reflected in mainstream media, because, you know, it's the present day, and demographics, and, well, literally every reason ever.

    Of course their only real solution would be to create their own media that does reflect their values. Which would be almost as hilarious as it would be horrible.
     
  5. black_saber

    black_saber Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 4, 2002
    So the people walking away from Star Wars in the fandom is very small right?
     
  6. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Guest

    YES!

    I don't know where your getting your info from dude? But I don't think its a trustworthy source.

    I mean I don't know any real mainstream Right-Wing conservative shows or pieces of media that are good or even popular?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 7, 2021
  7. Barriss_Coffee

    Barriss_Coffee Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2003
    We saw what happened with the "exclusivity" mentality with Topwara and Culator. They were so specific about how they wanted their SW fandom that they kicked out the vast majority of people trying to post on the Wook over the last decade. These kinds of crazy conservative fans will never be the majority because they don't want to play with others who don't look or sound just like them.

    Unfortunately, they are very loud and good at pushing others around.
     
  8. black_saber

    black_saber Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 4, 2002
    Many of the conservative fans don’t and never been aware that Star Wars always had a left wing political point of view since George Lucas did demonized the right wing in his Star Wars movies.

    Since Kathleen Kennedy is doing the same thing with the Star Wars projects, she gets slandered for it but on the other hand she does actually get a little to overboard with it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
  9. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Guest

    Well as I'm concerned the people who say she's going overboard with it aren't worth listening too

    If anything many would argue that she isn't going far enough to be honest.
     
  10. Daneira

    Daneira Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 30, 2016
    What has Kathleen Kennedy gone overboard with? Provide specific examples.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
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  11. black_saber

    black_saber Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 4, 2002
    I am not sure either that’s just me exaggerating, but she seem to fire lots of directors on Star Wars projects.
     
  12. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Guest

    That has nothing to do with being leftist or conservative....That's just movie production not always being smooth.

    And at the end of the day movie still made money

    So....IDK what your point is?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 7, 2021
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  13. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    Whoever you're listening to for information about "the state of Star Wars", you seriously need to stop listening to.
     
  14. FiveFireRings

    FiveFireRings Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2017
    That's what I mean. Other than actual polemical talk shows, there's nothing, for a gazillion reasons. One being that talented creatives are just really sparse on that side of the ideological spectrum, for reasons I hope to God I don't need to explain (although occasional attempts at "conservative comedy" have been funny-not-that-kind-of-funny).

    But the other biggie is that our longstanding storytelling traditions just aren't flexible enough to allow for a person of the modern conservative ideology to serve as a protagonist. Someone whose philosophy is total self-interest could be an anti-hero at best, but even then, the "heroic" part would be where they overcome their self-interest to do something for the greater good. Audiences just don't stand up and cheer for someone going "well, screw these poor people who've suffered oppression for generations, I'm going to make sure nobody gets ahold of my property" or anything equivalent. Trump, for example, shows no character traits that our narrative traditions would recognize as "heroic". (On the other hand, this is why we have "reality TV" which bypasses storytelling for the spectacle of horrible people being horrible to each other and passes as entertainment --something I still haven't wrapped my head around, but is obviously massively popular. Not germane to the kind of media we're discussing, thankfully, but it might qualify as "conservative popular entertainment".)

    The question remains, and I welcome someone to articulate this better, what do these people *want* in their Star Wars (or similar) media? It seems like it's for it to be "less woke/SJW/forced diversity" which again I can only read as fewer POCs, and non-straight characters, and females in more "traditional" roles. And they we'll get "But it's fine to have that stuff as long as it's well-written," which explicitly gives nonwhite, non-CIS-male characters a hurdle to clear that doesn't apply to, well, the other kind of characters. It's not even thinly veiled, is it? And it's not going to happen because, among other reasons, it's commercial demographic suicide in 2021.
     
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  15. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Guest

    @FiveFireRings

    I don't even know what these people see in the Original Non-Disney Star Wars to be honest (Since it always seem to be the Disney Era they target)

    Like sure you can go back to ANH and point out problems and diversity was practically non-existent ....But it's not like Luke was the gold standard of machismo at the time....If anything he was going against the tide of "Manly Men" ...he was a wimp teenage boy practically (for the 70's)

    Heck Leia was a trend setter at the time...she participates in a lot of the action and isn't just the damsel in distress.

    So like what is it that even like about Star Wars? Is it something from the EU, is it just rose tinted glasses. Who knows.
     
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  16. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    It's probably something that SW is far more opposed to on every level.

    So, a white, male kid has his hometown torched - standard JRPG opening - he goes off to manfully fight and kill them all. Along the way the oppressed world loves and defers to him at every turn, especially women and other races, got to get those in. Add in a load of casual sex and violence and then bring to the boil with a final battle against a suddenly alluded to being gay, foreign emperor type.

    Coming soon as a comic written and drawn by Ethan van Scriver.

    Urgh, just writing this satirical swipe was difficult.
     
  17. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Guest

    Maybe they like the Aesthetic but not the actual story and wanna just make it something else. Cuz Star Wars does have a lot of cool designs.

    (I feel that way about a lot of EU stuff I dislike but with these guys it's on a whole different ball game)

    I know Star Wars is very much "Lets play with our toys" mentality sometimes ...But still.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 8, 2021
  18. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Guest

    Maybe they like the Aesthetic but not the actual story and wanna just make it something else. Cuz Star Wars does have a lot of cool designs.

    (I feel that way about a lot of EU stuff I dislike but with these guys it's on a whole different ball game)

    I know Star Wars is very much "Lets play with our toys" mentality sometimes ...But still.
     
  19. Immi Thrax

    Immi Thrax Jedi Knight

    Registered:
    Apr 4, 2021
    Hey folks! I think I've finished incorporating all the canon characters from Toqgers' spreadsheet, along with some mentioned in this thread that were not yet added, on the WookieeProject: Pride — Scope page. If you noticed someone/something is missing, please let me know or edit that page to include them.
     
  20. Daneira

    Daneira Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 30, 2016
    Lucasfilm Junior Creative Executive Emily Shoukani uses they/them pronouns (but they don't have a Wookieepedia page despite appearing on the High Republic Show and writing articles for SW.com).

    I also noticed that it says Katy O'Brien uses they/them pronouns but the Katy O'Brien article uses she/her pronouns and the unnecessarily gendered term "actress."
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021
  21. Immi Thrax

    Immi Thrax Jedi Knight

    Registered:
    Apr 4, 2021
    Thank you! Emily Shkoukani is on the main project page as a "To-do article," but I wonder for navigation purposes if it'd be easier to put on the Scope page instead? I'll check on SW.com for their credits before creating a stub. I noticed her Twitter is "she/they."

    Thanks very much for catching the copy-paste error on Katy O'Brian; according to her Twitter, her pronouns are she/her, and her website describes herself as an actor. I'll get her article updated and correct the listing. Please let me know if you catch any more errors!
     
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  22. Immi Thrax

    Immi Thrax Jedi Knight

    Registered:
    Apr 4, 2021
    Emily Shkoukani now has an article :) Looks like they were brought on board for THR, but I should watch The Star Wars Show to confirm that, or does anyone already know if that's stated?
     
  23. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    That's the time when they came to my attention but correlation =/= causation--and as a general rule I wouldn't expect anything directly from LFL about when and how and why they hire people. From Emily, maayyybe.

    I'm sympathetic to your point here but frankly I think this is problematically dismissive of conservatives' ability to engage with material with ambiguous or even leftward narrative politics. Certainly there are plenty of conservative DCEU/MCU fans because superhero fiction is ultimately vigilante-justice fiction and it's very, very easy to read that through a conservative lens. To the extent that that lens can be actively avoided, the biggest, most obvious way is indeed the identity of the vigilantes--which is why someone can love Spider-Man and hate Ms. Marvel despite the tropes being largely identical.

    And obviously, that applies to SW too--Luke and Rey have the same role in their respective trilogies, broadly speaking, but the latter isn't imbued with the inherent rightness of WHM status and thus is a threat to any reading of the OT that's grounded (if often subconsciously) in Luke's.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021
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  24. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Guest

    IDK why but reading this reminds me why i love She-Ra and Owl House

    Lets take all the tropes, friends to enemies to lovers, big space opera, rebels vs a evil empire but instead the main two characters are LGBTQ+.

    Or in Owl House's case, lets have classic girl likes someone and becomes a flustered mess...but it's gay. Also involving Magic Wizard School....(Owl House is a good substitute for anyone who wants a Harry Potter replacement on their lives)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 8, 2021
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  25. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    ...Jid, I'm pretty sure that when you put on your socks in the morning it reminds you of She-Ra.