Lit Ignorance is Bias: The Diversity Manifesto

I mean again I think the Empire isn't just necessarily ONE REGIME in history....It's every oppressive force, every mad tyrant who wanted to rule the world. The system...The Man as George and his hippy friends probably said. It's all around just not good tyranny and dictatorship.

That is the Empire and it takes from all the aesthetic and historical context of that dark history of the world.

 

Especially since the whole separatist occupation of Onderon really lines up with the Soviet Occupation of Afghanistan, in particular the whole plotline about giving the rebels missile launchers to deal with enemy helicopters gunships is right out of Charlie Wilson's War.

(Though i have to nitpick historically - Osama Bin Laden was a low ranking member of the Mujahideen, and few members of the Taliban or Al-Qaeda fought in the Soviet occupation. Just the opposite - the main leader the US supplied and trained was Ahmad Shah Massoud, who would spend 20 years fighting against the Taliban and Al-Qaeda, as would many other veterans of the Soviet conflict. But that is not well known, so I suppose the intent is clear.)

Yeah, indeed. Notably, while there are definitely some space nazi elements, there are also big space fall of Rome elements in there, and a lot of other stuff to boot. (Including some arguably problematic civil war stuff with the Grand Army vs the Confederacy where Palpatine is basically what Linclon's critics accused him of being)

And when push comes to shove, as depressing a thought as it is, the nazis were hardly unique in history - there have been a lot of tyrannies and they tended to operate in a similar manner, regardless of what ideological hat they would wear (monarchist, communist, theocracy, populist nationalism, so on and etc) so I think arguing about how much the empire lines up with any particular inspiration can distract from larger themes of tyranny, rebellion, hope, so on and etc that the movies deal with. Applicability I believe is the term.

 

I believe you. Except you did say that Empire were America.

Nazis in the desert you say?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afrika_Korps

Also like an hour after that image the Empire blow up Jedi city. Which is not something the US has done.

You keep pushing this idea that the Empire are the US, which just feeds into the idea that the Empire isn't bad.

Also the Rebels on Jedda were extremists made to resemble terrorists, so that part seems like they worked backwards to make the Rebels look more like terrorists.

Though interestingly the ship that most looks/acts like a Hind in the Clone Wars is the Republic gunship.

Re bold; I think they are, or at least seen as unique. The industrial genocide is unique (though more people died in China during the great leap forward than died in the death camps 40 million in China and 11 million in the camps), the way it was done stood out. The drive to got to those lengths was unique. Other people did do genocide before and after, but if you say "The Empire are all evil regimes" Then people will say "Well the Soviets weren't as bad as the nazis so the Empire are like them and not so bad". When the Empire are evil, through and through.

Applicability wouldn't be an issue if people didn't want to make the Empire 'sympathetic' or it being full of 'good' people.

 

I can assure you that is not the point I'm trying to make.

 

If anything that's sorta the point that George was saying.....That America is the Empire and America is bad.

Especially ANH Empire which i think is waaaay more supposed to represent Nixon's America.

 

I don't think you are trying to say the Empire is good, and that is not what I am saying.

But you keep saying the Empire is like the US, so what are you trying to say? That the US is like the Empire? That the worlds second largest democracy, a nation that helped defeat two the largest authoritarian regimes in the 29th Century and is the best hope to contain the largest authoritarian in the 21st (which is of course not to say the US is perfect, I mean banna republics and such).

By bringing the US into the fore as an influence on the Empire (something i feel is grossly overstated, since even how PT shows palpatine coming to power is less nixon and more Lincon or Hitler [with the clone wars as the richstag fire]).

The US is not (generally) regarded as a genocidal regime, so if you keep pushing that they are the main influence of the Empire, then either that means the Empire is like the US or the US is like the Empire, the former makes it easier for other people to argue that the Empire are really the good guys (yuck).

So when did the US nuke a populated city to test it's new bomb?

How? How does it represent Nixon's America?

The Empire are evil and do often pull the worst aspects from a number of regimes. But the big influence, the one that stands out in the movies and the EU are the nazis. They have stromtroopers, they dress like ww2 German officers and the EU adds spicesism (explicitly) and more genocides.

I think you could say the Old Republic is like America and that the PT are a warning about how democracy can die, but not the Empire.

edit; Just to be supper clear I don't think anyone here is arguing that the Empire are good. Just that some of the arguments used feed into the ones people who DO argue that use.

 

@AusStig

George Lucas quotes

 

most of that stuff came out in the PT though, Star Wars might have started as that, but we don't see it in the OT.

As I said the PT is a warning ( a very apt one and made more so given events), but I don't think the Empire is meant to represent the US.

 

Well...George Lucas would disagree

 

I feel like we're talking past each other a bit. I don't mean to claim that America is the foremost influence on the Empire, over Nazi Germany. What I have claimed, is that the Empire has been, at times, used to critique America's policy. I say this as an American.

 

?

If you are think of Japan that wasn't a test of the bombs, and it also was a war, using the Nuke to level a city wasn't seen at the time as much different from destorying a city with normal bombers (look at most the cities in Japan in 45 and it would be hard to pick out the two nuked).

It was only later when radiation became more understood that the true horror of nukes was understood (I mean US plans for the invasion of Japan had them using Nukes to clear beaches and then the troops going close in).

 

I have a feeling we've got a little off-topic here, I'm sorry for what I've unleashed upon this poor thread.

 

I feel like these three images together make a point of their own that wasn't intended.

 

so anyway, Owl House

 

Owl House

Putting every single "Disney First Character" hype to shame.

Deserves more praise.

 

Well, good to see Disney Channel official site embracing it

 

Really? This is the same company that's axing it, not backing it with a full season too, now wanting to be applauded?

I understand taking what you can get, but this feels off.

 

To be fair it probably would have gotten 3 seasons anyway since most cartoons don’t last forever

the issue is that season 3 was halved and not a full 22 episode season. It will finish its story we just don’t know how

but on another positive note

 

Yeah, that has to irk - the left hand says it's all great; the right hand slashes the ep count for season 3.

Nor does it seem limited to cartoons. There's numerous TV series axed, with their story either inconclusive, hanging or badly concluded because they got next to no notice of it being axed.

 

true and that is a problem since another show Amphibia is ending next season and ever season is a full 21-22 episode season

my only hope is Danna and the crew can work around it best they can since they are pretty clever writers, but even the most creative can’t overcome something like this

but as Danna said best way to support the show is to have it on D+ continuously and retweet as much as possible

 

Be interesting to see how it plays out.

Will retweets have more influence than their predecessors like petitions on the corporate decisions?

 

Hard to say but we have gotten a few times to make the headlines on Twitter. So the Owl House audience is a prominent one.

that’s just what the creator of the show suggest we do since it’s to late to extend season 3

we will see.

another thing I’ve noticed though not related to this is that every time we get a groundbreaking moment like a LUMITY some people tend to dunk on past works that had groundbreak moments in the past like Steven Universe or She-Ra instead of realizing that those shows like groundwork for things like Owl House and LUMITY to happen and Owl House is laying groundwork for future shows.

It’s stuff building on other stuff

 

Yeah, as a queer teen back when Legend of Korra was airing, Korra and Asami holding hands was small but it still felt like a lot. I feel like the only legit positive representation in kids cartoons before that was, uh, Olivia Olson saying in a badly-recorded panel that Marceline and Bubblegum used to date.