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Books Imperial Handbook - A Commander's Guide

Discussion in 'Literature' started by King of Alsakan, Apr 7, 2014.

  1. FTeik

    FTeik Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 7, 2000
    We don't belong to the TeaParty or the Taliban. ;)

    Although in my humble opinion a lot of people have a right to be as angry as them. They were promised a product with a certain quality (this quality being the belonging to a single continuity) and they spent their money trusting that promise. Only that LFL/Disney/whoever is in charge broke that trust. If they had said from the beginning: "here are the movies and they are canon, while anything else - comics, novels, RPGs - is entertainment" there wouldn't be a problem, but they didn't. Now they are trying to lead as around like oxen with a ring up our noses claiming, that all the old stuff is no longer canon, but don't worry, the new stuff will again be part of an overall continuity. As if anybody would be dumb enough to still give a sh.. about, what the storygroup claims. If it happened once, it can happen twice.
    Actually there are mor..s, who still believe, what the storygroup says, when they should just forget about "canon" and just enjoy the material for its entertainment-value. And if you belong to those, who can't do that, because they want things like Crystal Star or Heir to the Jedi to be part of the same continuity - enjoy the bucks you saved.
     
  2. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    I stopped caring about canon with the post-NJO. My philosophy became: read what I like, don't read what I don't. My quality of fandom life improved by not reading terrible books and not venting my rage on the Internet about them. So I can do the same with the NEU.

    But the problem is less that it really matters to me that the stories I love (like X-wing) aren't canon -- they'll still be there -- but the problem really is that things I like are no longer guaranteed to exist and may never be mentioned. That's more what kind of sucks.


    And that's not only relevant to folks like us who care about lore. It's relevant if you happen to be a huge Garm bel Iblis fanboy (for some reason?) and are worried that the Rebellion will be founded in the new TV show and he won't be there.


    Missa ab iPhona mea est.
     
  3. Rogue Five

    Rogue Five Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 11, 2014
    My thinking is somewhere along the same lines. My biggest gripe with a new continuity is the fear that'll well never find Sev, never get a Jedi Knight 4 game, ect... Basically, I'm afraid the new eu is going to nuke all our favorite characters.

    Also, Garm Bel Iblis is the man. Dude put Mothma in her place, founded he Rebellion, and is voiced by the same dude who does HK-47 in empire at war. But he'll probably get cut out of Rebels, replaced by some expy named Marg Leb Silbi. Bah.
     
  4. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    I wouldn't worry about JK4. We will probably get one someday. It may even have Kyle -- though sure it probably won't follow the original story.

    Personally, I'm more interested in a new Dark Forces game. Rep Com was a spiritual successor to those games -- down to similar weapons. More please. Imperial Commando could be a legit possibility with the OT centric time line.


    Missa ab iPhona mea est.
     
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  5. Zorrixor

    Zorrixor Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2004
    I'd adore another JK or RC or DF game.

    Like you Jello, I actually loved Republic Commando. I know most people hated it, but... I thought it was a cool shooter-- and I usually hate shooters. But it was just a bit of lighthearted fun, with some amusing weapons, and a decent cast of characters who made me laugh.

    That's something I miss in most shooters (on the rare instance that I feel like trying one) these days, as it's usually so serious nowadays, and all dark and moody and... bland.
    Honestly, I've come to the conclusion that a lot of those people are essentially going through the stages of denial. Deep down, they know their was continuity. Even if they weren't the hardcore fanboys and fangirls who bought the Essential Chronology, got hung up about little changes here and there, they still knew there was this thing called Star Wars, even if they only enjoyed a small part here or there. Take KOTOR. It was a mass blockbuster.

    It wasn't just a good Star Wars product; it was simply a good rolplaying game, full stop. It appealed to a wide audience, anybody who wanted to play a good RPG, they played KOTOR. Lots of people even had their first taste of Star Wars through KOTOR.

    And those people wanted continuity. They craved it like any video gamer craves a sequel. There's a reason people raged at Mass Effect's conclusion, or raged at changes between Halo games: because they don't have to care about this big "continuity" thing, they just wanted good storytelling, and good storytelling doesn't go retconning itself all the time if it wants to be taken seriously. But this, I fear, is where it all started to go wrong. The "EU" had gone mainstream, even if only in isolated pockets, of nerds who enjoyed one niche market or another. And at that point, the little quibbles started to irate a wider fanbase. TOR? Hello Revan retcons. Hello lack of KOTOR2 closure. Hello all the other continuity shifts that didn't match years of video gamers' expectations.

    They don't have to care about the EU or all that Star Wars nerd stuff. They just wanted to know what happened to their characters, and ended up feeling cheated when they found out.

    And that's an example of where I suspect a lot of this "Long live Story Group! Why didn't they have this all along?!" mentality is stemming from: lots of people got burned in recent years when the EU started losing direction, either with book fans and Vergere, or video gamers and Revan, or film fans and Darth Maul, and it's just resulted in people retroactively convincing themselves that there was "never any plan" before, and that all this Story Group PR is something new. Which is going to hurt those people more than any of us in the long term. Because the day they realise "nothing is different", the day their favourite character gets walked on again, the day that cool scene in Tarkin or Rebels Episode 16 doesn't end up quite working out as originally intended... they're going to rage, and swear and rant that they didn't get what they were promised, that they had been told it would be different this time, that this new Story Group would make it perfect and that those problems were a thing of the past.

    Which, frankly, is why I actually feel that all this PR could end up backfiring and blowing up in their faces in a few years time when all the people who are currently swallowing it hook line and sinker wake up again and realise it's all just talk-- just like before.
     
  6. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2004

    Pah... the only worthy successor that Republic Commando could ever have is Separatist Commando! [face_not_talking]
     
  7. darthcaedus1138

    darthcaedus1138 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2007
    To be perfectly honest, that's exactly what drew me in. The sourcebooks, the guides to characters, weapons and technology, species, chronology, vehicles and vessels, droids, the Atlas, the Reader's Companion. All of it screamed cohesion, it said that they were honestly trying to make a single galaxy of stories all interconnected with meaning. I don't understand how someone can read some of the best books/comics/essential guides and NOT get that it's all connected.

    But that's not the universe anymore. It makes me sad to watch the movies, because I now know nothing about anything. It makes the movies more shallow for me.
     
  8. blackmyron

    blackmyron Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    No, it really wasn't. There was Chee, who took a rather passive view of canon - and the eventual de facto & informal team of people like Luceno, Wallace, Fry, Pena and Hidalgo - only one of those is on the StoryGroup, and he's made his position very clear.

    Which was never added to once the canon system was established, and was for all intents and purposes abandoned after the Gamer article about the old Marvel series.

    Like my old sig quote says: "Reality can rarely be explained without contradictions". And some of what you list is more 'fans not liking changes/retcons'.

    But, you getting away from the main point - that the whole NEU/Legends distinction is arbitrary. It's suspected that all four of the 'new' books were all mostly written without thought of adherence to the NEU - the third book in the E&R series certainly was, and there was no reason to say it wasn't part of the series other than adhere to the arbitrary distinction. Yet it's clear from Heddle's responses - and lack of anything from any other member of the StoryGroup - that they didn't really think beyond the novels and the comics. So again, the idea that the Imperial Handbook is 100% absolutely NEU can be taken with a grain of salt. Let's see an actual, clear statement that is specific to the book.
     
  9. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    The main point is that nothing has changed, but you think that everything has changed for the worse. Specifically, you think that everything was perfect, honest, and consistent until Story Group ruined everything.
    Which is no different from how things are now.
    The bolded part is simply false. Chee is on the story group.
    Let's see an explicit statement from the President that robbing a bank is illegal. In the absence of explicit statements, one looks to the general policy.
     
  10. blackmyron

    blackmyron Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    If you're not seeing the difference between the Legends/NEU separation and what we had before, I don't know what else to tell you.

    "and the eventual de facto & informal team of people like Luceno, Wallace, Fry, Pena and Hidalgo - only one of those is on the StoryGroup, and he's made his position very clear."
    I'm aware that Chee is part of the StoryGroup. Only one of those five I listed that were part of anything that remotely resembled a "story group" (if a very informal one) are part of the StoryGroup. Is that clear enough?

    ... and circle back around again. It's it so clear, why again couldn't Heddle answer questions about it?
     
  11. Noash_Retrac

    Noash_Retrac Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2006
    It seems everybody got off track with this one...
     
  12. blackmyron

    blackmyron Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    Yep. Let's get back to discussing the Handbook itself. We should be moving any canon arguments elsewhere at this point.

    So how many copies are you buying, Jello? ;)
     
  13. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 3, 2013
    One for each room of his house.
     
  14. Noash_Retrac

    Noash_Retrac Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2006

    Well someone calling themselves a "Grand Admiral", this book is just for him.

    Anything juicy about the Battle of Endor in it (favourite battle ever if you haven't noticed)?
     
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  15. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    That depends entirely on what the extra goodies come in the box. I don't think we've been told yet, have we?
     
  16. Tzizvvt78

    Tzizvvt78 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Which is why I sarcastically asked why you stated it was, a few days ago. You'd either have to work at LFL or have a quote from someone who does.

    Or maybe this wasn't your post, but your evil twin's:
     
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  17. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Zorrixor
     
  18. Noash_Retrac

    Noash_Retrac Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2006
    If you want to argue over the difference on Legends and NEU, go to another board!

    This is about a new book with lots of goodies for those of us who don't care about the difference okay!

    There I had to say it.
     
  19. Chewbacca89

    Chewbacca89 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 2012
    Has there been an announced release date for this book yet?
     
  20. blackmyron

    blackmyron Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    Amazon has Oct 20th, but I'd take an Amazon date with a grain of salt without verification elsewhere - otherwise, I haven't seen anything else other than "this year".
     
    Chewbacca89 likes this.
  21. eddie1969

    eddie1969 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2005
    Got this from becker&mayer's customer service:

    Hi Eddie,

    The Imperial Handbook Deluxe Edition will go on sale in October 2014, and it should be available through all major bookstores, as well as on our website: www.beckermayer.com. It will be available for pre-order around September 1st. I'm sorry for the confusion. They are updating the info on our website.


    It is, ofcourse, already up for pre-order since yesterday on Amazon...

    And Amazon might be in the know, as this is an 47North (i.e. Amazon publishing) book...
     
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  22. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Oh, handy. It's coming sooner than I thought.


    Missa ab iPhona mea est.
     
  23. Darth_Garak

    Darth_Garak Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2005
    Yeah but that's the version with all the bells and whistles, right? I'm waiting for just the book itself.
     
  24. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Usually I'd agree with you, but in this case I might be persuaded to get the bells and whistles. Depending on how patriotic they were, of course. "Lock of the Emperor's hair" or Imperial medals might be cool.


    Missa ab iPhona mea est.
     
  25. Armchair_Admiral

    Armchair_Admiral Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 31, 2005

    *holds out for an Emperor's Will medal, if that's the case* =P~