Insider #80 to feature Mandalorian article, Yo Joe!

Ah, you guys are trying to position Mandalore eh?

Damn, i hate feeling powerless on subjects...

 

I favor the second idea, as well. near tatooine is too far out of the way. but be careful when placing Mandalore, because Ziost, and Rhen Var are former Sith Empire worlds, boarder worlds like Korriban and Yavin IV. we need an exact boarder for the sith empire to know where to place Mandalore. but I think we have enough space left over there. I just hope the mandalorians didn´t have to cross sith space every time they wanted to get coreward, which seems to be very often.

 

Thing is; if we can place the Mandalore sector, several planets could also be definitively placed: Mandalore, Gargon, Concord Dawn, Mandala, possibly a few other Marvel worlds, etc, etc.

Boba Fett and the Assassin Droids, lol. I thought it would turn out to be an awesome RPG campaign, or something.

TC

 

Don't forget Planet Ordo

 

Wow. Thanks for stopping by, Jace.

Ris-jSarek wrote:
"I didn't think it would probably mean anything, but when I was already looking toward Endor, and saw Spar sitting there . . . well, I had trouble avoiding jumping to that conlusion. ;-)"

There's still a possibility. In their Moddell sector piece, Jace, Dan, and Craig established the existence of the Endor Gate wormhole that can shoot a ship to other parts of the galaxy (a possible explanation for Vader's glove winding up on Mon Calamari), and presumably vice-versa. Maybe the Mandos took the magic ride there at some point. Or rather, Spar by himself, in the years before he resurrected the order.

Take care,
Abel

 

"Damn, i hate feeling powerless on subjects..."

Me too Mandalorian.

 

Actually, I think locating it near Tatooine is a good idea, although I would place it closest to Roon, due to the Taung connection.

The near-Tatooine connection is NOT too remote, since Tott Doneeta, a TOTJ Jedi, was a Twi'lek from Ryloth, "south" of Tatooine.

I think a near-Tatooine location is superior to a near-Rhen Var location for 2 reasons:

a) nearer to Roon: the Taung connection

b) the Mandalorian invasion path in TOTJ: Kuar-Teta-Coruscant; this indicates the Mandalorians approached Coruscant from the "south," i.e., the Deep Core.

If we put Mandalore near Rhen Var, the Mandalorians would have a direct route to Coruscant, and would have first plowed thru the Ringali worlds (Brentaal, CHandrila, Esseles, etc.); it would make no sense for them to bypass Coruscant, head into the Deep Core, and work their way up the Koros Trunk Line to get back to Coruscant. Whereas, if near Tatooine, they could head Corewarcd along the Corellian Run, pass thru the Deep Core, and approach Coruscant from the "south," pushing thru the Koros Trunk Line as depicted in TOTJ. Furthermore, if we assume Concord Dawn in in Mandalore Sector, and place Mandalore Sector near Roon (ie, between Tatooine and Hutt Space), this would place Mandalore Sector nearer Bothan Space, a reasonable inference from the mention of Moonus Mandell (a moon in Bothan Space) as being involved in the Mandalorian Civil War in some capacity.

 

Abel

Is the Basilisk in KOTOR 2 supposed to be the Stealth version the article talks about?

 

From the TUCWS interview with Brandon Badeaux:

"TUCWS: Just out of curiosity, what is up with the cave full of dead Mandalorians in Republic 67? We see a single panel with them, but really no story behind that.

BB: lol yeah, there is an amusing story behind that and I?m not sure if it will get me in trouble. Lets just say that if you?re a fan of something and you want something so badly to be in a comic that you feel the need to write mean things to the editor on Dark Horse message boards you may just get what you wish for, but not in a the way you want it, were like an evil genie that way.

I?ll just say I was told to put those dead mandos in that panel and only that panel there after I did my thumbnails. but I really think it spiced up that panel because it added a sense of menace to that scene."

Hmmm... I wonder which "fan" he's talking about...

 

Yeah, yeah, screw you

I may have lost battles, but at least I won the war. Of course it's all in part to Abel, but I wouldn't be Nuke if I didn't take credit for some of it. J/K

 

Senator_Cilghal:

Actually, I think locating it near Tatooine is a good idea, although I would place it closest to Roon, due to the Taung connection.

The near-Tatooine connection is NOT too remote, since Tott Doneeta, a TOTJ Jedi, was a Twi'lek from Ryloth, "south" of Tatooine.

Not too remote to be a part of the TotJ era, but too remote to be so regularly involved in Jedi/Sith affairs, and too remote to be one of the first places the Nagai entered from the Unknown Regions.

I think a near-Tatooine location is superior to a near-Rhen Var location for 2 reasons:

a) nearer to Roon: the Taung connection

This is a good point, but we don't even know for certain that the Taungs and Mandalorians are connected; lots of innuendo, but it hasn't been proven yet. Either way, we know the Mandalorians immigrated to Mandalore in fairly recent history, so perhaps wherever they were *before* they settled Mandalore is near Roon.

b) the Mandalorian invasion path in TOTJ: Kuar-Teta-Coruscant; this indicates the Mandalorians approached Coruscant from the "south," i.e., the Deep Core.

If we put Mandalore near Rhen Var, the Mandalorians would have a direct route to Coruscant, and would have first plowed thru the Ringali worlds (Brentaal, CHandrila, Esseles, etc.); it would make no sense for them to bypass Coruscant, head into the Deep Core, and work their way up the Koros Trunk Line to get back to Coruscant. Whereas, if near Tatooine, they could head Corewarcd along the Corellian Run, pass thru the Deep Core, and approach Coruscant from the "south," pushing thru the Koros Trunk Line as depicted in TOTJ. Furthermore, if we assume Concord Dawn in in Mandalore Sector, and place Mandalore Sector near Roon (ie, between Tatooine and Hutt Space), this would place Mandalore Sector nearer Bothan Space, a reasonable inference from the mention of Moonus Mandell (a moon in Bothan Space) as being involved in the Mandalorian Civil War in some capacity.

The thing is, at the time of the invasion, the Daragon Trail led from Koros to Sith space. So if the Mandalorians followed the Trail, they would have arrived at Koros, and then worked their way up the Trunk Line, instead of having to navigate through the impossibly knarled and unknown routes through the heart of the Deep Core.

As for Moonus Mandell, I'm afraid I don't know this particular tidbit of lore. If all that's said is that it was involved in some capacity, it might well have been a battle fought far from the front lines.

 

DarthMane2 said:

I may have lost battles, but at least I won the war. Of course it's all in part to Abel, but I wouldn't be Nuke if I didn't take credit for some of it. J/K

If by "lost battles" you mean "almost single-handedly managed to make the Mandalorians nothing more then a throwaway joke in the Clone Wars" and if by "won the war" you mean "sat on my keester while other talented writers who I was fortunate enough to have look past my previous insanity/foolishness did all the work and made it happen"....

....Then I completely agree with you.

 

No, the Daragon trail was destroyed due to star novae, as Dan Wallace himself pointed out to me, 5000 BBY, and the Mandalorian invasion of Koros was 4000 BBY, so the Mandalorians couldn't of used that.

Also, if we place Mandalore near Roon and Hutt Space, as I suggest, it might be fairly close to Kashyyyk, which was also on the Nagai invasion trail, and near Bothan Space as well (I am fairly certain from Marvel that Iskalon is close to Bothan Space, and it was on the Nagai invasion trail). Being thus located in the Slice, it would in no way be remote, since the slice is crisscrossed with hyperlanes.

 

TalonCard wrote:
?*Smiles in anticipation* The two ideas are not mutually exclusive, you know. ?



?I know; I meant that he may have left the planet Mandalore alone, not Gargon.?

A fair possibility, especially since Grand Admiral I?ve-got-a-Super-Star-Destroyer Grunger seems like the kind of guy to me that would throw everything he?s got into claiming the Corellian Sector from another GA.

?So what do I have to do? Sharpen Joe Corroney's pencils? Feed Dan Wallace's cats? Mow Jason Fry's lawn? Deliver donuts to the Pena place? Maybe I could try skipping ahead to being persistent. ?

Mmm?donut.

Paying your dues basically means get your writing published anywhere and everywhere you can and as often as possible. This often requires a hardening of the heart (so as to bear all those rejection letters), but probably above all else, yes, the aforementioned persistence factor, i.e. ask ask ask ask ask and ask again. In fact, persistence often gets you more results than skill, though it itself is a skill of a kind. The combination of skill and persistence still yields the best results, though.

Rogue_Follower wrote:
?Just skip ahead to the LFL implant. Does it hurt? How does it work? Who are your controllers? ?

It doesn?t hurt that bad, except when you want to talk about the cool stuff you know, then your head feels like it?s gonna explode. There?s actually a remarkable amount of freewill built into the system?you just have to face the consequences of your choices.

I figured my icon answers that last question: What is thy bidding, my master?

?This thread seems to be losing momentum. Hopefully the "as-of-yet-unknown-to-fans future article" in the works will generate as much discussion. ?

Time to spill the beans!

The next two projects seeing publication in March will be a multi-part series covering the Dark Forces saga for WOTC and an in-universe Hyperspace article that digs into the odd relationship between droids, technology, and the Force. The usual caveat applies: expect some surprises.

Take care,
Abel

 

Dark Forces?

W00T!!!!

>>"As for Moonus Mandell, I'm afraid I don't know this particular tidbit of lore. If all that's said is that it was involved in some capacity, it might well have been a battle fought far from the front lines."<<

In Open Seasons it's mentioned that Moonus Mandel is two days travel from Concord Dawn...i think

 

Tam - you had the two days and the Moonus Mandel right, but the actual line by Vizsla was Alright gentlemen, two days R&R before we head to Moonus Mandel..

 

Ah, I see. The was justified, then.

 

Dark Forces? Neat. But I don't know much about WOTC...

 

*Picks up Abel's spilled beans*

Whoo hoo! Good stuff!

So, will the Dark Forces stuff cover just the Dark Forces games, or will we see Jedi Outcast and Academy covered as well?

>Paying your dues basically means get your writing published anywhere and everywhere you can and as often as possible. <

...the implication, then, is that you must first find time to write.

TC

 

Senator_Cilghal:

No, the Daragon trail was destroyed due to star novae, as Dan Wallace himself pointed out to me, 5000 BBY, and the Mandalorian invasion of Koros was 4000 BBY, so the Mandalorians couldn't of used that.

The explosion kept it from being a replacement for the Perlemian, but as you pointed out in the thread Mr. Wallace was responding to, that snag could have been worked around; besides, that would have only disrupted it at one point, leaving two fairly useful chunks of trail on either side. Galactic drift was what finished it off, much as the Gordian Reach was erased. It may not have reached all the way into Sith space at the time of the Mandalorian invasion, but segments of it were probably still intact.

Even if the Mandalorians *were* out near Roon, they would have had to either take the Corellian Run to Coruscant and then move down the Koros Trunk Line, or find a remnant of the Daragon Trail to take to Koros. The Deep Core itself was simply too impassible before the Emperor found routes into it for the Mandalorians to find a way through.

Also, if we place Mandalore near Roon and Hutt Space, as I suggest, it might be fairly close to Kashyyyk, which was also on the Nagai invasion trail, and near Bothan Space as well (I am fairly certain from Marvel that Iskalon is close to Bothan Space, and it was on the Nagai invasion trail). Being thus located in the Slice, it would in no way be remote, since the slice is crisscrossed with hyperlanes.

It would be remote from the Unknown Regions, though, which is where the Nagai come from. Indeed, they would have had to travel across half the galaxy, one direction or the other, to reach a Mandalore sector near Roon.

The biggest stumbling block to a near-Roon location is the Nagai being in the sector before they were anywhere else we're aware of. If we can come up with a plausible reason for them to travel half the galaxy to begin their invasion at one of the furthest points in the galaxy from their homeworld, then the Roon location might just work.

Halagad:

A fair possibility, especially since Grand Admiral I?ve-got-a-Super-Star-Destroyer Grunger seems like the kind of guy to me that would throw everything he?s got into claiming the Corellian Sector from another GA.

True, but he didn't seem to make his move on the Corellian Sector until after the events of Glove of Darth Vader; at that point, he just seemed to be building his forces at Gargon and attempting to solidify his claim as Leader of the Empire. It wasn't until later that he made his move on Corellia.

Of course, that doesn't mean he cared about Mandalore, just that he was near it for a while.

To be fair to Cilghal's position, Grunger's move on Corellia *does* point toward the possibility of a near-Roon/Ryloth location for the Mandalore sector; if Grunger wanted to establish a presence in the Core, one of the first places he'd hit would be Corellia if he travelled down the Run.

The next two projects seeing publication in March will be a multi-part series covering the Dark Forces saga for WOTC and an in-universe Hyperspace article that digs into the odd relationship between droids, technology, and the Force. The usual caveat applies: expect some surprises.

Very cool. ::::Sighs:::: They're going to do their best to make me pay for kriffin' Hyperspace, aren't they?

Jort:

Dark Forces? Neat. grin But I don't know much about WOTC...

Don't worry. Basically all that means is, between lots of cool information, there will be blocks of roleplaying game stats and/or miniatures info. Just skip them; there's rarely anything useful from a fanboy standpoint in them, other than the occasional unexpected skill or feat.

 

CeiranHarmony wrote:
?the LFL implant seems to be very weird to me. some beings that have it behave like R2D2: they rule, they are cool, and they kept their own way of doing things, but they just can´t talk about the secrets of the universe. (this category I´d put abel into, though he has lots of secrets to share with us^^)?

[In best Joe Pesci impersonation] Cool, what do you mean by ?cool?? Like cool, *Lobot* cool? You mean cold-hearted like a cyborg, I'm cool? Is *that* what you mean?

Rogue_Follower wrote:
?They act like they don't have one because they have outdated units. Their older models are not properly programmed like the newer ones. Of course, some LFL people are not even aware of their implants. ?

Oh?you thought they were limited to LFL employees and not fanboys? Interesting?

JodoKast3 wrote:
?Can`t wait to see what ya got planned!!!!!?

Won?t have to wait much longer JodoKast. I believe March 7 begins the first installment of the Dark Forces series, with one piece following each week after that. March 14 should be a double-header with the simultaneous appearance of the Droids and the Force piece at SW.com.

Ris_jSarek wrote:
?Well, I tried to avoid coming here (I'm following way too many message boards for my health as it is), but the siren song of mucho Mandalorian mental mastication made me make my move. ;-)?

Holy cow?say that 3 times fast.

?All of those sourcebooks are good stuff, but TABSB rocks! From having an offhanded mention to the coolest-named ISD ever (the Unrepentant), to its excellent, comprehensive coverage of what happened right after Endor, to Kathy Tyers's chapter on alien teeth, this thing is Solid Gold (tm).?

With all the sidebar fiction in it, some of it quite long, the Truce at Bakura Sourcebook is practically a novel unto itself. Highly recommended.

Take care,
Abel

 

Trying to put the Nagai invasion route on the Galactic map is somewhat challenging, since the Galaxy map was made, what, 30 years after the Comics?

Using the map from Fact Files, Zeltros, Bothawui [which I am using as an approximate location for Iskalon), and Kqashyyyk are all fairly close together, forming a triangle within the "Slice;" Endor is far away from this area, and I think a purposeful divergence from the main invasion path for the sole purpose of wiping out the Alliance threat. The mystery is: where did the Nagai enter Known Space?

One problem is, we don't actually know the location of the planets Nagi and Tof, but assumedly they are some distance from Chiss space. I am not sure of the exact extent of the Unknown Regions, and indeed, the Unknown Regions may not all be connected to each other. Wild Space is the term for space between Known Space and the Unknown Regions, and we know Almania and Kamino are in Wild Space, as is the area south of Zhar, so there may be more Unknown Regions down that away.

If we put Nagi close to the area south of Zhar, this woould allow the Nagai access from the South, establishing a presence on Kashyyyk and Iskalon before their assault on Zeltros (as portrayed in the Comics) and put them not to far from Sullust and the "pipeline" to Endor. This would favor the near-Roon/Tatooine location of Mandalore, and allow Mandalore Sector to be close to Moonus Mandell, which is practically just north of Roon.

If we place Nagi between Lwhekk (the Ssi-ruuvi Imperium) and Csilla (the Chiss Ascendancy), this would place them very close to Endor, but on the opposite side of the Galaxy from the Slice, which makes little sense. Also, this places them between the Ssi-ruuvi and Chiss, and the EssChr seems to indicate these powers bordered each other, leaving little room for the TOf Empire (of which Nagi is part) to be between them. This interpretation would favor the Spar Sector interpretation of Mandalore.

If we place Nagi between Nirauan and Belkadan, but a little to the North, it is hard to imagine why the Nagai would have attacked the Slice without not first attacking the Perlemian, Braxant, and Gordian worlds.

If we place Nagi in the southern tip of the Tingel Arm, or beyond Cholganna and Drongar, thus would allow them access to the Hydian Way, which would favor Jason Fry's Rhen Var/Radama interpretation of Mandalore's placement, and Kashyyyk could be their next stop, being just a bit south of the Hydian, although it puzzles me they would divert far south to Iskalon before attacking Zeltros.

I initially was puzzled by the official placement of Zeltros in the Inner Rim, but after doing this study and noticing its close proximity to Kashyyyk, I see the wisdom of the official placement

 

Senator_Cilghal:

Trying to put the Nagai invasion route on the Galactic map is somewhat challenging, since the Galaxy map was made, what, 30 years after the Comics?

Probably only about 20, but still, yes, long before the map was even considered. Still, the map does a pretty good job of reconciling a LOT of details created in the 20+ years of Star Wars that came before it.

Using the map from Fact Files, Zeltros, Bothawui [which I am using as an approximate location for Iskalon), and Kashyyyk are all fairly close together, forming a triangle within the "Slice;" Endor is far away from this area, and I think a purposeful divergence from the main invasion path for the sole purpose of wiping out the Alliance threat. The mystery is: where did the Nagai enter Known Space?

What implies Bothawui and Iskalon are close together?

One problem is, we don't actually know the location of the planets Nagi and Tof, but assumedly they are some distance from Chiss space. I am not sure of the exact extent of the Unknown Regions, and indeed, the Unknown Regions may not all be connected to each other. Wild Space is the term for space between Known Space and the Unknown Regions, and we know Almania and Kamino are in Wild Space, as is the area south of Zhar, so there may be more Unknown Regions down that away.

Ooh, good thought! This would also reconcile the claims that they're from another galaxy, if they came from an Unknown part of the Rishi Maze.

It sort of quashes my dreams that subduing the Nagai and the Tofs is part of what Thrawn was doing in the Unknown Regions during his tenure there, but I guess I can survive. ;-)

If we put Nagi close to the area south of Zhar, this woould allow the Nagai access from the South, establishing a presence on Kashyyyk and Iskalon before their assault on Zeltros (as portrayed in the Comics) and put them not to far from Sullust and the "pipeline" to Endor. This would favor the near-Roon/Tatooine location of Mandalore, and allow Mandalore Sector to be close to Moonus Mandell, which is practically just north of Roon.

Yeah, putting the Nagai and Tofs in the Rishi Maze does give some definite advantages as far as the invasion route goes.

If we place Nagi between Lwhekk (the Ssi-ruuvi Imperium) and Csilla (the Chiss Ascendancy), this would place them very close to Endor, but on the opposite side of the Galaxy from the Slice, which makes little sense. Also, this places them between the Ssi-ruuvi and Chiss, and the EssChr seems to indicate these powers bordered each other, leaving little room for the TOf Empire (of which Nagi is part) to be between them. This interpretation would favor the Spar Sector interpretation of Mandalore.

I don't know if they bordered each other, since I don't think Ssi-ruuvi space extended much beyond their star cluster; I think that Ssi-ruuvi scouts went a long way before finding the Chiss, and Thrawn, who was probably privy to Palpatine's knowledge of the species, used that minor incursion as an excuse to deal with them.

Still, if I were to put the Tof Empire in the traditional Unknown Regions, I'd be more inclined to put it . . .

If we place Nagi between Nirauan and Belkadan, but a little to the North, it is hard to imagine why the Nagai would have attacked the Slice without not first attacking the Perlemian, Braxant, and Gordian worlds.

. . . here. We really don't know what was happening with these worlds during the lead-up to Endor; perhaps they were having a white-skinned marauder nuisance, as well. And, there's a fairly straight path from around Belkadan to Rhen Var without encountering any known planets.

Still, it's not as clean an explanation as the Rishi Maze hypothesis.

If we place Nagi in the southern tip of the Tingel Arm, or beyond Cholganna and Drongar, thus would allow them access to the Hydian Way, which would favor Jason Fry's Rhen Var/Radama interpretation of Mandalore's placement, and Kashyyyk could be their next stop, being just a bit south of the Hydian, although it puzzl

 

Hey folks! For the aspiring artists visiting this thread, there?s a treat from Joe Corroney at the official Star Wars website, How to draw a Mandalorian:

http://www.starwars.com/kids/activity/draw/f20050228/index.html

DarthMane2 wrote:
?Is the Basilisk in KOTOR 2 supposed to be the Stealth version the article talks about??

If it is, credit must be given to LucasArts. I got the information about the stealth Basilisk from the Essential Guide to Droids, which I believe was the first place to mention it. Don?t know if Dan extrapolated that from some differences he noticed among the Basilisks in the Sith War comic.

Tam Elgrin wrote:
?Dark Forces?

W00T!!!!?

That?s a good thing, I hope.

TalonCard wrote:
?So, will the Dark Forces stuff cover just the Dark Forces games, or will we see Jedi Outcast and Academy covered as well??

The focus will be mostly on Dark Forces (i.e. Dark Forces, Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight, Dark Forces novellas, and Jedi Outcast) with Mysteries of the Sith and Jedi Academy getting some shout outs.

?...the implication, then, is that you must first find time to write. ?

No way of getting around that one, TC.

Ris_jSarek wrote:
?Very cool. ::::Sighs:::: They're going to do their best to make me pay for kriffin' Hyperspace, aren't they??

Maybe just trying to make it *worth* your hard-earned creds, jSarek.

No?

Take care,
Abel