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Interspecies relationships?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by mike_zimbouski, Jun 21, 2007.

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  1. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

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    Aug 19, 2002
    ^ It may just be Palpatine's moral preferences enforced on the galaxy at large, of course...the Sith are into hedonism, which means a whole lot of what you want. That doesn't mean they want to give everyone else whatever they want.
     
  2. johnthejedi24

    johnthejedi24 Jedi Master star 3

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    Oct 12, 2004
    Is there any instances in EU Literature of the empires policy on interspecies relationships? I know that awhile back I did some posting on this board about this but nothing verifible came up. We never really get a view into what the average joes life was like in the Empire or how they cope with issues such as these.:(
     
  3. RebelGrrl

    RebelGrrl Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 13, 2006
    Since the Empire was human-centric and fostered the view of non-human species as little better than animals, to be used, abused, enslaved, and disposed of, I believe we may safely assume that actual relationships of equality between humans and these species were discouraged if not outright illegal. For example, Twi'leks are okay as slavegirls, but not as wives. Think about how African-Americans and interracial marriages were treated.

    Prejudice extended to those who were hybrids. See: Bey, from the Marvel Star Wars comics. Half-Nagai, Half-Corellian.

    Individual cultures within the galaxy are shown to have their own prejudicial baggage. This doesn't excuse the Empire instituting such things as state policy, but there's no where in the SW universe that's a perfect Eden. Even Naboo had prejudices to overcome between the humans and the gungans.
     
  4. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

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    Nov 28, 2000
    jSarek: [blockquote]Other factors come into play when regulating prostitution, chiefly economic ones. Nonetheless, I do believe in the repeal of laws criminalizing prostitution, so long as laws regulating economic factors such as working conditions are in place. [/blockquote]

    I did not refer to regulation, I refered to proscription.

    Since you are in favor of legalized prostitution, can you state your position on why it should be legalized in an instance where it is already criminalized?

    [blockquote]The former is not true; any empire that's finite in scope (e.g. a merely *Galactic* Empire) is by definition limited in its resources. As to the latter, what reasons? [/blockquote]

    Alas, you are mistaken. Theoretical infinity is impossible to achieve, but practical infinity (i.e. when the sum of available resources approaches zero) is certainly feasible. Consider the economics of scale: the entire Imperial Starfleet, said to be an expenditure of never before seen proportions, constitutes less than 1% of the annual profits of the Corporate Sector.

    [blockquote]I believe we are meant to extrapolate far, far more widespread rioting from the few scenes shown in the films. Regardless, I suspect the number of individuals actually visible reveling on Coruscant, Naboo, Tatooine, Bespin, and Endor well exceeds ten thousand. [/blockquote]

    Unless stated, it is very precarious to assume anything about authorial intent. At best, one can say that the amount of rioters seen in the movie constitutes a lower limit. Given the information from the RASB about how much of the galaxy is actually opposed to the Emperor, the upper limit--even if charitably stretched into the billions--is still an infintesimal fraction of a percent of the galactic population.

    [blockquote]Well, I have yet to see a prima facie case that they *are* harmful. Anyway, it's not begging the question, since the assumption that they are unharmful is one of his premises, not his conclusion. To make it a bit more clear: [/blockquote]

    Except the discussion, lest we forget, concerns whether or not such relationships are harmful as a matter of policy.


    [b]patchwork[/b]:

    [i][blockquote]What is wrong with sexual gratification? [/i][/blockquote]

    In simple principle, nothing. However, relationships between widely different beings simply for the purpose of sexual gratification constitutes a social threat.

    [i][blockquote]Since we're talking about alien who are sentient, the law must recognize that it is not simply a case of bestiality, which I would understand laws being enacted for the moral fiber of society. [/i][/blockquote]

    Certainly. Zoophilia works better.

    [i][blockquote]However, I fail to see what the Imperial Empire's source for prohibition of sexual liasons between sentient beings. Especially when some of these races are very anatomically close to the point that sexual gratification would not be harmful. [/i][/blockquote]

    Earlier, someone in the Literature chat linked us to a bizarre webpage describing sexual relationships with dolphins. The author of that page was very clear to point out that dolphins are sentient creatures fully capable of love with human beings. Presuming for a moment that this man is not disturbed in the head and is actually speaking truth, then would you suggest that sexual relationships with dolphins (or monkeys) be permitted?

    [i][blockquote]If there were a chance of something akin to what happened to the ummm...unnamed gentleman from Seattle who died of a perforated colon after performing an act with a horse, then yeah, protection from dangers of intercourse with species may require legal action.

    However, from all appearences, Twi'leks seem to have all the right parts, so if a human and a Twi'lek want to engage in mutual sexual gratification...why not? [/i][/blockquote]

    These laws do not exist to protect the individuals in question [i]per se[/i]--as there is certainly enough support for the notion of 'individual liberty' (such that it is) to>
     
  5. patchworkz7

    patchworkz7 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Mar 26, 2004
    Thanks for the reasoned response, Jello.

    I'll have to give your specific questions a bit of thought.

    I guess my next question would be whether the question of "social health" came from a moral compass or an ethical/philisophical one, but I doubt there's anything in-universe to expand on that.
     
  6. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

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    Nov 28, 2000
    Probably not, but were I to wager a guess I'd point towards classical Aristotelean virtue-based ethics. The ancients had the same sort of intrusive regulation of people's private lives as the Empire does.
     
  7. Jmacq1

    Jmacq1 Jedi Master star 4

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    May 20, 2005
    What exactly is the "social ill" that's being caused by allowing interspecies copulation, though?

    Again, the number of people that would actively pursue interspecies relationships are by the very nature of the thing going to be a minority, and likely a relatively small one compared to the galactic population. Much less those actively pursuing interspecies relations with races that they are not sexually compatible with in any traditional sense (who lets be honest, probably aren't the best candidates to be breeding with their own kind anyway). Where again is the harm being inflicted on society?

    Not to mention, that by legalizing this behavior and to an extent accepting it (or more accurately tolerating it from the minority practicing it), you remove one of the major factors that might lead to such experimentation...it's no longer "taboo." Thus to at least part of those who might otherwise seek out such experiences the appeal is lost.
     
  8. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

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    Nov 28, 2000
    Oh, it's still taboo. Removing the legal restrictions does not change the underlying social dynamic, and therein lies the danger.

    Witness the behavior of Nawara Ven and Rhysati Ynr during their infilitration of Coruscant for a demonstration of the ills of such allowances.
     
  9. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 8

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    Apr 17, 2006
    Here's one in the making:

    Jacen: "Niathal! Have my babies!!!"
     
  10. Lord_Riven

    Lord_Riven Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 13, 2001
    I might refer you to X-Wing 5 or 6, where Castin Donn talks about the riots/celebrations on Coruscant after the Emperor's death for more information. I don't own a copy so I can't really look up the exact description.

    Yes, it is an infinitesimal fraction, but then again, most of the galaxy probably does not give a flying-Sith about who rules the galaxy, just that they are able to get on with their lives in the way they want to. :)
     
  11. saber_death

    saber_death Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Feb 2, 2005
    nah... Jacen doesn't want Niathal... he wants lovers who can give him the most Force-strong children possible. you don't really think blackmail threats are the reason he spared Alema, do you? [face_whistling]
     
  12. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

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    Nov 28, 2000
    It's in X-wing 6, Iron Fist--and it specifies that the individuals seen celebrating in the movie are the only ones on Coruscant doing so. It's very handy for my argument. ;)
     
  13. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 29, 2005
    Jello, Jello . . . you neglected to mention that the glorious forces of the Empire crushed the traitorous, anarchic, vandalizing rioters! I'm very disappointed that you would ignore such a victory for Imperial order.
     
  14. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

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    Nov 28, 2000
    I do not like Isard.
     
  15. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 29, 2005
    You're in [link=http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Soontir_Fel]good company[/link].
     
  16. Lord_Riven

    Lord_Riven Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 13, 2001
    As Jacen says in Bloodlines, all people want is to know there a stable government.

    Was that the only one? I thought my fuzzy memory recalls that Castin was one of the broadcasters of the Emperor's death or something like that, and that he was overlooking some small-to-medium size plaza and then the Imperial troops came and started shooting...I would have thought that there were many many people broadcasting the Emperor's death on Coruscant.

    Even attendance at the celebration/riots is not a good measure of true support for the Empire/Rebellion either.
     
  17. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

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    Nov 28, 2000
    Certainly--which is why I told that other fellow that the post-Endor celebrations don't really tell us much anything at all.
     
  18. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

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    Aug 19, 2002
    I just read something interesting about Ryn women being used as breeding stock...perhaps this is plausible, after all...
     
  19. EECHUUTA

    EECHUUTA Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 19, 2007
    I wonder if there are any hybrids created from some of these interspecies pairings? I know it happens in Star Trek, I wonder if it happens in Star Wars?

    And speaking of pairings, Maul would be surprised at how many fangirls he has...:p
     
  20. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 29, 2005
    Just what interesting something was this?
     
  21. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

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    Aug 19, 2002
    Meh, it was the Wook, but it seemed to be a plain enough fact for it to have come from something other than fanon.
     
  22. EECHUUTA

    EECHUUTA Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 19, 2007
    Is the Wookieepedia reliable?
     
  23. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

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    Jul 30, 2000
    They're G-canonically supposed to indicate the galaxy is largely jubilant over the Empire's destruction.

    While people like to argue that the masses don't notice that they're in an authoritarian government, plenty of real-life examples show that people in military dictatorships are often frightened and hateful of the government even when it's "stable." Just because the people at the riot were murdered en masse doesn't mean that they were the only people on Coruscant that supported an end to the Imperial Government. It just means there's a Tianamen Square style- Massacre added to the number of atrocities the Empire performed.

    Let's face it; Coruscant the Shining Beacon of Imperial Hope is also a place with Stormtroopers on every corner, people routinely disappeared every day, and constant streams of scary Imperial Propaganda. I tend to appreciate Last of the Jedi's view on Coruscant which is a show that the Empire is HATED even on Imperial Center.
     
  24. jSarek

    jSarek VIP star 4 VIP

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    Feb 18, 2005
    To a degree. We generally keep the nonsense out, but we're not perfect, and sometimes something slips through.
     
  25. LtNOWIS

    LtNOWIS Jedi Master star 4

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    May 19, 2005
    Well, [link=http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Shug_Ninx]Shug Ninx[/link] was half-alien, but since his alien mom was a near-human anyways, it doesn't mean that much.
     
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