PT Is it illegal to be a Sith ?

I have not read that novel, but the Sith aren’t just an enemy of the Jedi, even though they are often portrayed strictly as such, they were the antagonists of the Republic itself, as liberal ideas were only able to establish themselves again with the defeat of the Sith.

That’s a pretty big event in relatively recent Galactic history that everyone except the Jedi inexplicably doesn’t know or doesn’t care about.


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from the novel

Palpatine: Why, Master Windu. What a pleasant surprise.

Mace Windu: Hardly a surprise, Chancellor. And it will be pleasant for neither for us.

Palpatine: I'm sorry? Master Fisto, hello. Master Kolar, greetings. I trust you are well. Master Tiin - I see your horn has regrown; I'm very glad. What brings four Jedi Masters to my office at this hour?

Mace Windu: We know who you are. What you are. We are here to take you into custody.

Palpatine: I beg your pardon? What I am? When last I checked, I was Supreme Chancellor of the Republic you are sworn to serve. I hope I misunderstand what you mean by custody, Master Windu. It smacks of treason.

Mace Windu: You're under arrest.

Palpatine: Really, Master Windu, you cannot be serious. On what charge?

Mace Windu: You're a Sith Lord!

Palpatine: Am I? Even if true, that's hardly a crime. My philosophical outlook is a personal matter. In fact - the last time I read the Constitution, anyway, we have very strict laws against this type of persecution. So I ask you again: what is my alleged crime? How do you expect to justify your mutiny before the Senate? Or do you intend to arrest the Senate as well?

Mace Windu: We're not here to argue with you.

Palpatine: No, you're here to imprison me without trial. Without even the pretense of legality. So this is the plan, at last: the Jedi are taking over the Republic.

Mace Windu: Come with us. Now.

Palpatine: I shall do no such thing. If you intend to murder me, you can do so right here.

 

Palpatine excommunicated Maul after defeating him in battle, and killing Savage. The two-on-one duel was their one shot at taking him out, and they blew it. Once that is done, Maul accepts this and says as much going forward. Had Lucas made to the ST, then he would have been free to restart the Sith Order with Talon.

Palpatine was recording the conversation and mudding the waters as part of his frame job.

 

It's not particularly relevant if it was illegal to be a Sith. Palpatine wasn't innocent otherwise. Palpatine undoubtedly committed many crimes, but the most obvious one is treason.

 

I thought it was implied, or outright stated, that most senators in the prequel era were corrupt anyway.

 

how so?

 

The Supreme Chancellor of the Republic instigating and leading both sides of a civil war within the Republic is obviously treason.

 

as a viewer you could say that , but as someone in that galaxy ? Like what's the evidence? Palpatine and Dooku were enemies, Dooku and the Seps kidnapped Palps. Palps had him executed.

 

Most people don't know the history of other countries, nor global history. And people don't care/worry about what happened more than a thousand years ago. The history of the GFFA is exponentially large in comparison.

The issue is in common but the erroneous idea that the Jedi (and therefore the Sith) are common knowledge, and the fact is that they aren't. The galaxy is big, and the Jedi even in their prime are a small number of people.

Within the Republic, it's known that the Jedi exist, but not much beyond that. Most people have never seen a Jedi, let alone a Sith. And we don't know under what circumstances the Sith ruled the galaxy. I mean, the Sith ruled the galaxy in the movies, but it's not like the galaxy knows that it's ruled by the Sith, that the Sith have manipulated things and are in control. Darth Vader is publicly a Sith Lord, but that's virtually meaningless to most people. Wether he belongs to a dark cult or not, at the end of the day he's just an henchman for the Empire.

So? That's a completely irrelevant distinction (assuming it's one to begin with). And it's irrelevant in regards to Sidious' ability to excommunicate him from the Sith. It's because Maul was once appointed a Sith Lord that Sidious did what he did.

 

But it is known that Dooku is a Sith Lord and leading the opposition. Dooku confessed to Obi-Wan that Darth Sidious controlled the Senate and Chancellor Palpatine confessed to being Darth Sidious to Anakin. Their testimony of those confessions is considered evidence. That's why Mace goes to arrest him.

 

did he?

 

“my mentor taught me everything about the Force, even the nature of the dark side”

“you’re the Sith Lord!” (ergo Darth Sidious)

“I think chancellor Palpatine’s a Sith Lord ... the one we’ve been looking for” (Darth Sidious)

 

"Join me, and you'll achieve a power greater than that of an ordinary Jedi."

"Use my knowledge, I beg you."

"Don't continue to be a pawn of the Jedi Council!"

He was basically doing everything but holding up a sign that read 'evil dude here', and shouting 'I AM A SITH LORD!!' through a space!megaphone.

This is one of those rare moments in the Prequels where we are allowed to join the dots ourselves. We don't need anyone to literally say, 'The Chancellor is actually Darth Sidious!' because there's no reason to. He says he knows the Dark Side, we know Dooku is dead, ergo, who else could he be? For goodness sake, he even drives the point home by shooting lightening out of his fingers. Again, who else in the main movie line (besides Dooku) can do that?

 

He admits that he has knowledge beyond that which the jedi teach, even about the dark side. If he is a Sith then this just brings it back to the original question: is it illegal to be a Sith?
He was legally and democratically elected.

 

Being legally and democratically elected and being a criminal are not mutually exclusive conditions.

 

I think at the end of the day we have three options, and since SW is a world of make believe, it really doesn't make much difference which you choose:

1) the movies:
they don't say anything at all on the matter. It is worth considering though that Qui-Gon said to Valorum "I must speak to the council immediately, the situation has become much more complicated" note he said the council, not the senate. The Sith returning would interest the Jedi not the Republic.

2) the novel explicitly states no it is not illegal, so if we are to believe that Lucas line edited this book, he'd have had something to say if this was not the case

3) The Disney movies have it that it is illegal to translate the Sith language and is against protocol droid programming, this seems to suggest it is illegal...or that C-3PO was modified after the events of ROTJ, so while it wasn't illegal BBY to be a Sith it is illegal ABBY.

 

1. Qui-Gon has no idea at this point that Senator Palpatine is the mastermind of this whole affair. Nor that it is the beginning of a much larger plan of conquest.

2. Palpatine says that, but then he's not the most honest man in the galaxy. And Mace does not engage in a debate with him.

3. Or that the novelization was not used as a consultant.

 

George line editing the novel doesn’t mean there aren’t mistakes or inventions by Stover that don’t reflect how George sees the movie. The novel also forgets that Padmé wasn’t the youngest elected queen.

 

So you don't have a Lucas quote that agrees with your position, for once. That sucks.

If Palpatine was engaging in a falsehood to Mace about it not being illegal, I think Mace would have said something dude...

Palpatine wouldn't just blurt out lies just because, he ain't two years old

The Queen line is a single exchange/line, not a whole page of dialogue

So what you are saying we should pay no attention to the novel then at all? wonderful

@heels1785 @cubman987 @Guidman can we make a policy that nobody can make claims based on the novel as evidence as a position you take...because apparently it is now "irrelevant"

 

I don’t believe being a Sith is illegal. I was just saying the novel is more Stover’s interpretation of RotS than Lucas’ who primarily out his heart into translating his imagination into film.

 

I'd say that.

 

So was Nixon and look what he did.

Even if he weren't a Sith, the fact he crafted a war to undermined the Republic he swore to protect is reason enough for prosecution.

 

we know he did, but you have to imagine you're in that galaxy, what's the jedi's evidence that he crafted the war? The senate voted to use the clones, and the jedi led the invasion of Geonosis.

 

Their evidence that he crafted the war is that he’s a Sith Lord. They already know the Sith instigated the war behind the scenes and that Dooku is a Sith, they only need to identify Palpatine as a Sith to know he’s committed treason.

 

That is a long bow. The only proof the jedi have that a Sith is in the Republic is the word of Dooku. Even if Palpatine is a Sith Lord, the jedi have no evidence that he is collaborating with Dooku or working to bring down the Republic.

If all the evidence they have is "He is a Sith, a different Sith was trying to bring down the Republic, he must be guilty of trying to bring down the Republic too". That is very weak.