PT Is it worth getting the PT on 4K Blu-Ray?

I apologize if there's already a thread for this. I know there's one for the OT.

I have heard mixed opinions of this new release of the prequels. Some say its a definite improvement over the previous BD release others seem to think that both have strengths and weaknesses. TPM in particular seems controversial. For anyone who has it do you think it's a significant upgrade? Is the color correction any better then the 2011 Blu Rays?

 

I havent seen the 4k blu rays but I have seen the blu ray that comes with it which is based off the same master as the 4ks, and TPM really didnt look any different. Can someone confirm that the prequel masters for the 4ks are the same masters used for the 2011 blu rays? Im pretty sure they didnt take out the blue teal tint in AOTC which is annoying.

 

Its definitely worth getting the OT 4k blu ray since they have the original color grading restored. Even though I dont have a 4k player or 4k tv I got them because the blu rays that come with them are based off the same new masters that are used on the 4k. I ended up getting the PT as well just so the discs would match, even though the new PT blu rays dont look any different from the 2011 blu rays. Was a big chunk of my stimulus payment. Payed almost $90 extra just to have matching discs. But you know what? That's how much I love Lucas's six part 30 year magnum opus. It's also the first time Ive given Disney any money since December 2015.

 

They're a mixed bag. Definitely not as good as what could have been. Improved in some ways. Terrible in other ways (I think that's DNR; just look at Anakin's face in the opening elevator scene of AOTC. It doesn't even look like a human face.)

Are they, overall, an improvement? On average, yes, I think so. But they're a missed opportunity.

 

What do we call the newest releases of these films? 4K? 2019? 2020?

Having the new 4K cuts released on Disney+ in 2019 at the same time the 2011 BluRays were rereleased in new packaging in 2019 makes this very confusing. Then the 2019 versions came out in disc in 2020.

Anyway -

Does anyone know - Is the restoration or master the 4K version of the prequels and the lower resolution 1080 bluray of the 4K version, do they use the same master as what was used for the theatrical 3D release and 2011 BluRay?

The newest 2020 bluray to me looks like the disc is a completely new remastered disc. New video file and new sound track. The sound track is a big upgrade to 7.1 sound from 6.1 in 2011. And the video file while all new looks like it comes from the same master source as the 2011 release, and isn’t such a big improvement.

Last question, I could swear the video on the 2020 released BluRay of The Last Jedi looks slightly better than original BluRay release. Is that possible it’s also a new video file?

 

I don't own any of the 2011 1080p remasters to compare, and I don't remember what I thought of them the last time I saw them, but the UHD Blu-rays' color grading seems fine to me, I suppose. Maybe the color temperature still leans a little blue-er than many would like.

But, that said, I was still underwhelmed, if not disappointed, by the new releases. They're still presented in a 2.39:1 letterbox aspect ratio, which is lame but still very common on Blu-rays for whatever reason. And HDR and Dolby Vision doesn't really seem to do anything for them either. Even when I have DV shut off on my player, they look the same (at least on my TV, which does have Dolby Vision, but it's a cheaper TV; on a brighter, higher-end set they might look fantastic, IDK). I can barely tell any difference between the UHD Blu-rays and the regular ones that come in the box doing A/B comparisons. And, regarding TPM in particular, some of the upres-ing or DNR-ing (or whatever it's called) of the CGI does look a little out of place in contrast with the actors and locales shot on camera film at this resolution. Maybe that's because they scrubbed a lot of the film artifiacts like they did with the old Blu-rays. One thing I always liked about the 2001 DVD was, in spite of how noisy DVDs look on HD screens, how much film grain and artifacts was just scanned in for that release. It was kind of a cool effect IMO. But, yeah, definitely none of that here. I haven't seen AOTC or ROTS on 4K yet, but I am curious how all the CGI (not to mention the fact they were digitally taped) looks at this resolution.

And... I don't know for sure, but the soundtracks have to be new remasters. AFAIK the Dolby Atmos tracks on the UHD Blu-rays represent the first really new surround sound mixes for a Star Wars movie on home video since the 6.1 Dolby Digital EX mixes that originally came out with the 2001-2005 DVD releases. I don't have any height or back channels in my system, and haven't done any comparison between the old Dolby Digital tracks and the new Atmos ones (I guess, technically, since I don't have an Atmos-compatible receiver it defaults to Dolby TrueHD anyway, but whatever). But no matter what, it all sounds good. Star Wars movies have always been, you know, basically demo discs for surround sound systems. And I bet the seismic charges in AOTC sound amazing in Atmos.

Buuut. The UHD Blu-rays are fine. I like more about them than I dislike. And for better or worse, they are now officially the definitive versions of the Saga. And yes, before somebody smugly lays into me, I am aware of unlicensed fan releases. That business with the "Despecialized Editions" doesn't... doesn't count.

 

Thanks. It sounds like the biggest upgrade over the 2011 Blu Rays is the Dolby Atmos track and, since I don't have an Atmos system in my home (still got an old 5.1) I'll probably hold off for now. Maybe will eventually get a release of TPM that utilizes the original negative (and doesn't crop anything) but I won't hold my breath.

 

Adjusting the settings on systems can actually be complicated and tricky, but I would recommend it for some of what I am seeing (or getting upgraded components/systems). The quality didn't drop in the 4K version if you have everything properly set.

It's worth upgrading to these if your system warrants it (if we are talking quality alone). A lot of the newer improvements don't typically matter much if you don't have a large 4K TV and/or a quality surround system.

An audio/visual extravaganza like the PT deserves to be watched and heard on something booming, as that is where it really shines through, more so than most movies. It wasn't produced with modesty in mind.

 

They certainly could’ve been better, visually speaking at least. Not a huge upgrade over the 2011 versions but I still got them because it’d feel wrong to me if I only got the OT in 4K.

 

It would typically not be a big upgrade to go from 1080p to 4K., especially if the 1080 are well done, and you don't have a giant screen However, it is still true with these that the bigger the screen, the more improvement you will see.

 

Only for those who have not seen the 2011 Blu-ray. The 4K release uses that same master as a basis.

I'd say if you have a 4K TV, then it's worth having. If not, stick to the existing Blu-rays.

 

I agree here. They slathered on the DNR sauce a little too thick. Its obvious in some scenes. There is also some edge enhancement too. But, detail is bumped up in many scenes and the use of HDR is also solid. The sound is great.

You are correct though - an overall improvement but it still feels like they missed it too. This is Star Wars. The transfers should be 5 out of 5 as in reference 4K material but they certainly arent. I still bought the set though and am glad I did.

 

The lean toward blue tint on the color was major issue for releases around that time. The Extended Edition lord of the rings blue ray releases also had issue with the color grading especially the Fellowship of the ring which has a noticeable blue tint on some scenes

 

After a closer comparison it looks to me that the 2020 Prequel blu rays are WORSE than the 2011 blu rays. I really hope that is just Disney phoning it in on the encoding of the blu ray discs and that the UHD discs look great.

 

How so?

 

It all looks pretty great to me but I'm not particularly a videophile that goes to the lengths of zooming in on a face and checking for DNR.

Blu-Ray.com goes into those aspects so if we go by them:

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Star-Wars-Episode-III-Revenge-of-the-Sith-4K-Blu-ray/257143/#Review

The 4K is 5/5, the 1080p is 5/5 and the sound is 5/5

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Star-Wars-Episode-II-Attack-of-the-Clones-4K-Blu-ray/257144/

The 4K is 4/5, the 1080p is 4.5/5 and the sound is 5/5

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Star-Wars-Episode-I-The-Phantom-Menace-4K-Blu-ray/257145/

The 4K is 2.5/5, the 1080p is 2.5/5 and the sound is 4.5/5

When the blu ray Star Wars Saga set came out their ratings were The Phantom Menace 3/5, Attack of the Clones 3.5/5 and Revenge of the Sith 5/5. By that reckoning TPM lost half a point with the newer 1080p presentation, AOTC gained a full point with the newer 1080p presentation and ROTS stayed the same full marks. The original review also gave top marks for the sound so that means they took a half point off TPM.

The main TPM complaint is always the lack of detail "The UHD appears to have been sourced from the existing master used for the Blu-ray disc with an HDR application slapped onto it. The image suffers from a number of problems, including some smeary textures, flat details, and little evidence of the original film source. Grain has been removed from the image, resulting in an inorganic façade that robs many of the movie's locations of their textural grace, whether worn-down dwellings on Tatooine or the rich and resplendent surfaces around Naboo, both within the palace and out in the open country. Faces are often far waxier than they should be, with close-ups showing only cursory detail within the smoothed-over imagery."

AOTC does well by their standards "The picture is smooth and clean, free of noise even in challenging low light scenes. Detailing is strong enough within the movie's natural glossy sheen. It picks up healthy textures across a wide variety of practical and digital components, from intimate skin tones to hairs and even beads of sweat when Anakin awakens from a restless nightmare in chapter 25. The image finds well-versed details in its practical locations, like grassy fields on Naboo, and its digital constructs, such as Coruscant vistas. Viewers will also enjoy more refined detail in close-up; look at R2 watching over a sleeping Amidala early in the film; even in darkness the close-up shows various design details and structural dings with far more clarity than any previous home video iteration. The picture is relatively sharp in total, with only some of the digital effects and distant artificial backgrounds truly looking a bit murkier than might be ideal or if the production had been made in the last few years. Essentially, it's more a product of its source, so faithfulness is, at least, very high even if there's not much of a "wow" factor in play."

ROTS does extremely well "The digitally photographed Revenge of the Sith dazzles on UHD. The digital construction shows maturity over Attack of the Clones and the film shines with the added resolution and HDR color output. Look at a lightsaber duel in chapter five, Obi-Wan and Anakin versus Count Dooku. The lightsabers glow with perhaps the most impressive HDR intensity seen anywhere not just in the Star Wars galaxy but across the entire UHD universe-at-large. Likewise, the green readouts and accent lights seen aboard Grievous' ship's bridge in the following minutes are spectacular. The sun over Coruscant seen in a couple of shots from space and on the planet's surface brightly illuminates the screen with searing intensity. The white, bright interior of the Blockade Runner is a standout in chapter 33 for intensity and clarity while the hellish reds on Mustafar offer bold, terrifying intensity. Black levels are excellent, particularly in some of the key low light and shadowy scenes where Anakin is most deeply challenged at his core, his soul torn between the Jedi and the Dark Side. Add in laser blasts, explosions, and all sorts of other practical and digital elements, like Yoda and Clone Troopers, and there's no shortage of HDR excellence to be found."

To top it off "There remains a certain air of artificiality to some of the visual effects shots, but this is a much more visually polished and fruitful experience than Attack of the Clones. Overall it's the best looking Star Wars UHD amongst the prequel trilogy and the original trilogy."

I find their observations on "artificiality to some of the visual effects shots" pretty funny but setting that aside they take a mostly technical close look at the image.

 

On ROTS the noise on the image seems much more noticeable, the colors dont seem as vibrant, and the blacks dont seem to be as deep. Contrast is a bit duller. There are some shots where I feel like I am watching a low quality mpeg file. In some shots it lacks the 3d look that digital is supposed to have. I just happened to be watching the ROTS 2020 blu ray last night and I thought to myself: "I dont remember EVER feeling this underwhelmed by the picture quality here". So I decided to pop in the 2011 blu ray, went to the same spot in the film, and sure enough it looked better. I suppose it could be the way my tv and blu ray player is calibrated, but I really never have to adjust that to avoid a bad image when I pop in a different blu ray. In a lot of ways the 2020 AOTC blu ray looks better than the 2020 ROTS blu ray and that is not supposed to be the case.

And the 2020 AOTC blu ray is definitely worse than the 2011 AOTC blu ray because of the slight DNR added.

Im not sure about how TPM compares, I will have to do a comparison later on.

So now Im going to have to go buy the 2019 Prequel blu rays so that the disc art matches the 2020 OT blu rays (which are vastly superior to the 2011 OT blu rays). Even then the disc menus wont match.

 

Here's a video review comparing Disney+ 4k to the disc 4K:



and a TPM DVD to BD to 4K comparison:

 

I'm the wrong person to ask. If anything is released with the name Star Wars and has a roman number I, II, III, IV, V, VI, I'm sold. As Renee Zellweger said in Jerry Maguire, "You had me with Star Wars: Episode 1-6..." LOL

 

They've been released in that format?
I had no idea.

 

This sums it up and I agree. I have a 65” 4K OLED and they do look mostly good. But, there are issues like the DNR & digital muckery as mentioned above. AOTC in particular to me also seems dimmer than it could be. Even with the HDR kicking in. Overall they are not as good as they should have been which is frustrating. However, it’s the best they’ve ever looked at home. The detail uptick is noticeable. So, they are recommended but not as with as much excitement as I would have hoped. Still a worthy upgrade though.

 

The OT definitely is. I would say the PT is too but it's probably less noticeable. I am no expert on technical things though.

 

‘It depends’ is probably the correct answer, because of how Disney is choosing how to implement the two primary HDR formats, HDR10 and Dolby Vision.

HDR10 isn’t a *bad* standard, but it is one size fits all-it doesn’t adjust to fit a scene’s particular lighting, while Dolby Vision does. And Disney is choosing to only have HDR10 on their 4k disc releases (the only Star Wars exception to this is The Last Jedi) but have Dolby Vision on streaming or purchased digital copies. (You also run into audio compression with streaming, but that’s generally gonna be less of a big deal for most people than what the picture is doing)

Of course, this is a moot point if you don’t have a Dolby Vision TV. Also you do get digital download codes with the discs and those do have Dolby Vision.

 

After making some lossless comparisons, AOTC and ROTS are exactly the same as they were in the 2011 releases. The only differences are that they are now slightly cropped at the top and bottom and in most scenes there's some stretching on the left and right of the frame to cover some imperceptible artifacts.

For TPM, the color grading is slightly different from the 2011 release. Like the other movies, it's cropped at the top and bottom. And unlike AOTC and ROTS, there's no stretching.

As far as I'm concerned, the original 2011 Blu-rays are the best full HD versions of the PT.

 

Im wondering how much better the PT would look if they recomposited all the digital effects, similar to what was done with Kingdom of the Crystal Skull