Rogue One Is R1 Your New Favorite?

You have terrible taste! It doesn't have enough cgi, it's so similar to the OT that it could almost have been made in the same era, the acting is too good and not cheesy enough, it needs annoying characters etc etc etc

 

Chirrut is so close to being a Jedi that I sometimes just wish he had been. If he had somehow been a Jedi who had survived Order 66 and had ties to some of the other Jedi we knew it could have been cool.

That’s one of my only issues with it and it’s minor because I know that they purposefully wanted it to be more about the people beyond the Jedi.

 

Lies! Deceptions! Every day more lies!

Bor Gullet will know the truth!!

 

This is something I go back and forth on also... I think RO is the best SW film since the OT, and just like the OT there are certain "What ifs?" that I still think about. Wookies instead of Ewoks will probably be a thought I still have on my death bed Now I loved Chirrut and think he was closer to how I imagined a Jedi to be based on what the OT laid down. He was far more interesting than the Jedi in the PT who bored me to tears, and Rey (whilst a cool character) lost me when they just made her power level 10 no explanation. Hmmm, lets go with yes - He should have been a Jedi

 

I love Chirrut being a non-Jedi for one reason alone. Baze’s great line:

“There are no Jedi here. Only dreamers, like this fool.”

 

The reduction (or reversion) of "the Force" being a simple religion again was one of Rogue One's greatest strengths. The prequels depicted Jedi as larger-than-life superheroes, but A New Hope and by default, Rogue One, kept the concept subtle, and therefore much more believable.

It works better as a kind of fringe belief system, with some "simple tricks" thrown in.

The line you quote above is great, but so was Cassian's question, or delivery of it, because it suggests that he has perhaps heard of Jedi, and heard rumours about them, but obviously hasn't ever come across any, so is unsure. That is how I interpret the scene, and I think it is really cool.

Once again the Jedi are given a level of mystique, which the prequels seemed to kill through over familiarity.

 

I don't really see any particular difference in how the Jedi were handled. The Jedi were larger-than-life figures in the OT as well, and also in Rogue One. In fact, Rogue One may have had the most superhero-like moment we ever had (well, more like supervillain), in Vader wiping the floor with the rebel soldiers in the hallway.

The concept or skills of the Jedi weren't really all that different in any of the movies. The only clear difference was that the Jedi were more widespread and thus better known in the PT, while in hiding and memory of them purged by the Empire in the OT.

 

How about the on-crack-flipping-around stuff...? They were way more over the top in the PT, and way less mysterious...

 

^There are probably more examples of PT Jedi being killed like chumps than anything. I think only AotC Yoda was really "over-the-top".

But eh, I like the PT Jedi. It makes sense they wouldn't be the same as they are in the OT. They're just different eras. In the PT they're plentiful and in power, so yeah, seeming more powerful than the OT and less mysterious lines up. I personally think they still maintain some of that mystique, but I'm overall glad the PT didn't just copy the OT's "mysterious lone wizard" vibe. I mean I like that vibe, but I like that the PT expanded on the Jedi too.

As for Chirrut, I like that he's not a Jedi. It sets him apart more. Plus I don't like the idea of there being active Jedi around in this era, aside from the film characters. The Jedi-like characters in Rebels already pushed that kinda of thing more than enough.

 

I didn't see any particular amount of "on-crack-flippin-around stuff". Most of what could be seen was an extension of what was available in the OT. The main difference was that all the fights we saw from Jedi in the OT were between an old man, a cripple who wasn't quite as agile as he used to be, and a kid who had little training in combat. Vader vs Obi Wan was more a matter of mind-games and taunting than an actual attempt to get rid of the other as quickly as possible, anyway. Luke had shown multiple jumps and backflips in the OT as well, and Vader, apart from obviously being less mobile, didn't really have any reason to be more active than he was.

Not to mention that using Rogue One as a counter-examples seems rather absurd. You not only have Vader cut through people like butter, you also have a non-Jedi basically act like a Jedi in a far more excessive way than any Jedi ever did in the prequels.

As for being "less mysterious", duh. The story was about Jedi, and there were a whole lot more of them around. How exactly could they not be less mysterious?

 

I read your post twice...twice. All I hear from what you wrote are excuses. There aren't any. Just say you loved the PT Jedi and their portrayal leave it at that - At least it would be truthful. Lucas just decided to amp it up because he thought it looked cool... If Yoda, Palpatine, Dooku etc can jump around like that - Obi Wan could and your "old" excuse goes right out the window. As for the rest, you lost me with the "duh"

 

^You lost me with "Lucas just decided to amp it up because it looked cool"... That's just your assumption. It's not a reason.

Lucas did say that Vader and Obi-Wan's less-than-intense battle was because it was between "two old men". I don't quite agree with that idea. But the time periods, the scarceness of the Jedi, each characters' own unique experiences... those all sound like pretty reasonable factors to me.

Also, let's remember we're talking about Force powers here. It's not exactly a science. It's never really been that consistent in any era. You kind of have to fill in the gaps to explain some things, like RO Vader as opposed to ANH Vader. Those portrayals don't really make sense, and they're right next to each other in the timeline... but what can you do.

 

Makes perfect in-universe sense to me. Vader was in a mad hurry to stop the DS plans from getting spirited away, and mere Rebel grunts stood in his way. In ANH, he runs into his old Jedi Master - one of the most powerful Jedi to have ever lived. He can’t just mow him down.

 

^Maybe. But I don't think it's obvious as to why the duel is so tame compared to the RO scene, and for something that's supposed to be more personal for Vader. Plus Obi-Wan wasn't exactly giving the impression that he was a powerhouse. Vader even comments that he's weak in that scene. Who knows, maybe he just wanted some time to gloat to Obi-Wan before finishing him. I'm sure there's tons of reasons to speculate why the scenes are the way they are.

 

Sure. I know what the out-of-universe explanation is: different time, different capabilities, different amount of money, different styles, etc. I’m just saying that I think it’s easily explained in-universe.

 

The two situations were very different. In R1, Vader was in a hurry to retrieve the plans before they escaped, and he didn't face any opponent who was any kind of danger to him, so he didn't waste time and mowed them down like a reaper behind schedule. In ANH, he had all the time in the world to fight old Ben, and he also knew he was up against the only man in the galaxy who was actually a danger to him, the man who had beaten him soundly the last time they fought. Of course he was cautious in that fight; he knew that one wrong move would get him killed.

 

Well, if proper arguments are only excuses for you, then there is no point in debating...

It sounds more like you have come to a conclusion and are dead-set against anything that might challenge your view. You have defined your reality, and no matter what anyone else says, they must be wrong, because your opinion is the only thing that matters, regardless of what the people who actually made the stuff thought about it.

I also see that you completely ignore the mind-games part, how Obi Wan wasn't even after killing Vader but buying time, or how Vader was busy taunting Obi Wan and not all that bothered by killing him as quickly as he could. Or how Luke, even though he isn't trained in combat at all, does the very same backflips and all that stuff, but I guess if you have no counter to that it is always best to just ignore it.

Of course I did. You already had shown before that you didn't care about why things are the way they are. That a story that deals with the fall of Anakin and the end of he Jedi Order would focus heavily on those very Jedi should have been obvious to anyone. Apparently not.

 

I would say for me RO is behind only the OT and ROTS. It does a great job of mirroring the OT, (esp. ANH), even the score, while seeming fresh at the same time. It is a tricky balancing act and difficult to pull off as we all know.

 

It's right up there with ESB to me.

 

Lucas also thought about lightsabers being rather heavy back then. Also technical restraints, it was really difficult to pull that up and they couldnt have go faster even if they wanted.

In ESB the technology was already improved and you got alot of faster movements.

 

While I am in general agreement with Avnar, I must say that I find Rogue One's scene with Vader using his lightsabre over-the-top.

 

Traitor!

In all seriousness though, I give RO a 9.5/10 and love it...but one thing I will concede is that the end scene involving Vaders line in ANH "Several transmissions were beamed to this ship" wasn't as air tight as it could have been. The Vader scene was gold but the whole Leias ship being inside Raddus ship and the plans being received by that ship and then...oh you get the point. It was just a little messy, but I'll take it because imo RO delivered two Vader scenes that not only rivaled some OT Vader scenes but trumped them This from someone that thought the PT killed Vader as a character!

 

There were definitely messy parts in R1. The one that stands out the most to me was during the battle of Scarif when they came up with the whole obstacle of trying to get a transmission to the fleet so that the fleet could open the shields to allow the real transmission to get through with the plans. It was all just too complicated, confusing and messy. But battle is usually complicated, confusing, and messy, so I'm willing to let it slide.

 

That’s exactly what I loved about it. And that complication and messiness also serves to give each of the characters their own mini-roles and missions, which added to the idea of this communitarian heroic sacrifice. In fact, I think the intricacy of it is what makes it the best battle scene in Star Wars.