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Saga Is Star Wars more liberal or conservative?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Dark Ferus, Sep 27, 2016.

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  1. Dark Ferus

    Dark Ferus Chosen One star 7

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    Jul 29, 2016
    Are American politics reflected in the films? Are liberals or conservatives more likely to like Star Wars?
     
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  2. VadersLaMent

    VadersLaMent No One star 10

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    Apr 3, 2002
    Palpatine is made of of many things, one of them is Nixon. In ROTS Anakin states "if you are not with me you are my enemy" which comes from Bush's "if you are not with us you are against us". The Banking Clan winds up being predictive, our own economy hit the floor in part from banks betting on us to lose. SW is far more liberal. What's interesting though is a facebook SW page I belong to and the trump supporters will make themselves known with memes that should be applied to Trump but they try to stretch them to Clinton. So while SW might lean to the Left, some of the fans certainly do not. Maybe it's because in SW everyone walks around armed.
     
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  3. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

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    Jul 7, 2009
    Politics? Yes. Ideologies and parties? No. I'd say Star Wars is not pro or against political ideologies (american liberalism and conservatism being only two of many more, and political ideologies don't have just one axis), but against authoritarian political systems.

    No.
     
  4. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    The second question crosses the line into discussing the fans.

    Feel free to discuss the first question. This thread will remain open as long as everyone is civil and the discussion does not steer into which ideology is "right" or "wrong".
     
  5. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 8

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    Oct 4, 1998
    The archetypes and themes of SW are ancient, practically timeless, and each of us can read into them whatever we choose to. It's like the cave; what is in there is only what we bring with us.
     
  6. theraphos

    theraphos Jedi Knight star 2

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    May 20, 2016
    I think this is a bit of a stretch; pretty sure similar sentiments were being expressed both RL and in fiction long before Bush ever said anything. :p Anakin is expressing a character archetype in moments like that, not quoting an unpopular politician he otherwise has very little in common with.
     
  7. TCF-1138

    TCF-1138 Anthology/Fan Films/NSA Mod & Ewok Enthusiast star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Sep 20, 2002
    I think it's somewhat silly to narrow down the politics and themes of Star Wars to the American two-party system of liberal vs conservative.

    Neither really reflects Star Wars accurately - Lucas was more interested in the bigger picture than either of those two pretty narrow ideologies. You can find aspects of socialism, communism, liberalism, capitalism, and many more political ideas in Star Wars - but the closest to an actual standpoint you will find is that Star Wars is inherently anti-authoritarian, and anti-fascist - something that both American liberals and American conservatives have in common.
     
  8. Obironsolo

    Obironsolo Force Ghost star 4

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    Feb 7, 2005
    i think George clearly delineated between the Jedi themselves, using the unified and living force. I believe the living force represents a liberal point of view, which generally views the world from that of the individual's point of view. The unifying force would be more of a conservative stance, as it focuses on the overall better good.

    I'd say that SW as a whole is definitely more liberal. George is obviously liberal and it is his take on the universe.
     
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  9. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

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    Mar 10, 2005
    Star Wars is Jedi. Jedi is compassion. Compassion is all-encompassing.
     
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  10. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

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    Jul 7, 2009
    Lucas never did that. That's EU talk.
     
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  11. jakobitis89

    jakobitis89 Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 27, 2015
    I don't think it's coming at it from a purely American perspective politically. As an outside viewer, the entire American system seems pretty conservative - what is viewed as Left by Americans (or perhaps more fairly, what we are told is viewed as Left*) would actually be moderately Right by British standards, the American Right would probably be unelectable in the UK. The SW saga seems to be in support of democracy in general but at the same time suggesting that it is very vulnerable and open to exploitation, more explicitly so in the Prequels but even in the OT it becomes apparent the ''Senate'' is merely a façade and a sop to the masses given the Emperor is able to just unilaterally dissolve it on a whim.

    *Obviously someone like Bernie Sanders is an exception, I am talking in very general terms as my only interest in American politics is how it might affect the rest of us.
     
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  12. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord 19x Hangman Winner/Wacky Wednesday Host star 10 VIP - Game Winner VIP - Game Host

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    The phrase "Living Force" was used in the TPM movie at least. The Lucas-supervised TCW used the term "cosmic Force" for what the EU called Unifying Force.

    The lines

    "Master Yoda told me I should be mindful of the future."
    "But not at the expense of the present. Be mindful of the living Force, my Padawan."

    were what resulted in the extrapolation that the Unifying Force is what allows seeing the future - and the Living Force is for other powers.
     
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  13. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

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    Jul 7, 2009
    That the Force has a cosmic and a living part comes from Lucas. But that's something the Jedi know and acknowledge. There's no division or delineation between them, nor is there an "unifying" Force.
     
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  14. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord 19x Hangman Winner/Wacky Wednesday Host star 10 VIP - Game Winner VIP - Game Host

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    Wasn't it first mentioned in the TPM novelization on Lucas's instructions - before he started preferring the term "cosmic" to "unifying"?

    https://starwarsprequelappreciationsociety.wordpress.com/2012/01/15/25-undeniable-fact-about-tpm/


    The novel turned out to be one of the biggest hits of Brooks’s career and he’d devoted an entire chapter of his kinda autobiography “Sometimes The Magic Works” on the process of writing the novel, which he recounted as a positive experience. Lucas gave Brooks a rundown of the Jedi and the Sith and what they believed. Brooks introduced fans to Darth Bane as founder of the modern Sith, and the contrasting beliefs of the Living Force vs. the Unifying Force (“Living Force” is mentioned in the film, “Unifying Force” is not). Of the six film novelizations, TPM remains my favorite.
     
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  15. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

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    Jul 7, 2009
    The word? Maybe. The meaning as seen in the EU? No. It's not even a doctrine.
     
  16. Darth Basin

    Darth Basin Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 15, 2015
    It's Dai Bendu.


    Centrist.
     
  17. Kuro

    Kuro Jedi Knight star 3

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    Oct 17, 2015
    Even though he’s been a billionaire business mogul for the last 40 years, it’s important to remember that George Lucas was initially a liberal San Francisco hippie. I mean, we’re talking about a trilogy where a group of young Rebels, guided by New Age spirituality, take on and defeat “The Man”. Hell, one of the main arcs consists of the hero combats his square establishment father and eventually making him see the light.

    Yeah, Lucas definitely leans towards the liberal side of things. Frankly, a bigger and more intriguing question for me is a how a staunch right-winger like John Milius ever fell in with this group of young hippies like Lucas and Francis Ford Coppola.
     
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  18. NotSoScruffyLooking

    NotSoScruffyLooking Jedi Master star 3

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    Mar 20, 2009
    Although Lucas was liberal, the idea of religion as a dominant theme in sci-fi fantasy is more conservative, I think.
     
  19. Cael-Fenton

    Cael-Fenton Jedi Master star 3

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    Jun 22, 2006
    Star Wars -- the inestimable value and goodness of the person and of his or her radical, inalienable freedom as well as its conditions, limitations, inherent paradoxes.



    Although some ideologies (at least, in how they seem to inevitably play out in practice) are clearly against the values or ideas of the Saga, conversely I don't think any political ideology has a monopoly on them, or is "more" about that in every respect than any other. The values of Star Wars are not monolithic/unidirectional and they are not mathematically commensurable amongst themselves. Some ideologies/points along the 'political spectrum' (which to me is a rather Americanised conceptual picture anyway -- politics isn't along a straight line because there are so many variables!) are better at some bits; others, others.
     
  20. sekator-2

    sekator-2 Jedi Youngling

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    Jun 12, 2016
    You might say SW have always been closer to the liberal side, if you look at the OT depiction of the Empire it's all about old white human men, while the Rebellion is diverse in terms of species, gender and race, it's even lead by a woman. I remember EU turned it into some sort of nazi-like ideology with human supremacy and quite a bit of misogyny too that made sense given what we've seen in the movies but when Disney took over it was obviously scrapped.
    Perhaps it's because they've noticed that bad guys are often more popular among the fans so everybody should be represented. Now young girls can be inspired by nazi office ladies of colour so they can follow their dreams and who knows, perhaps one day they can serve some totalitarian regime too.
     
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  21. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord 19x Hangman Winner/Wacky Wednesday Host star 10 VIP - Game Winner VIP - Game Host

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    Not really. Aftermath: Life Debt shows that the newcanon Empire still regards aliens as dangerous, near-human aliens as less so but still not to be trusted fully, and women as "breeders" - that said, Thrawn in the newcanon is the first ever grand admiral, and there were apparently quite a few female admirals, going by the short story Orientation.
     
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  22. Slicer87

    Slicer87 Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 18, 2013

    Also Lucasfilm stated that the films themselves are the clearest windows into Starwars, and that even the novelizations are less clear windows than the films. Some of this might be because novelizatons are often written before the films are finished and include deleted material.

    Some of the ideas in the PT are conservative to some degree, such as a government gaining more and more power to turn into tyranny. Conservatives are supposed to favor smaller and weaker government to keep it in check, what happens to the Republic is what conservatives are supposed to fear. However, they don't always follow this. Regan famously said the scariest thing a government can say is, we are here to help you. Which is similar to what Sids tells the CIS leaders, Vader will take care of you. Personally I think Star Wars goes beyond the simple two sides.
     
  23. Ingram_I

    Ingram_I Force Ghost star 5

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    Sep 7, 2012
    Conservatively liberal, and liberally spiritual-moralistic.
     
  24. Howard Hand

    Howard Hand Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 11, 2015
    Liberal through and through, most obviously in the prequels (especially ROTS)
     
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  25. Darth Basin

    Darth Basin Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 15, 2015
    The Empire is a oligarchy. Based on power. The Rebellion/NR are Socialists.
     
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