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Saga Is the hand gesture necessary when using the Force?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by MotivateR5D4, Oct 1, 2015.

  1. MotivateR5D4

    MotivateR5D4 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2015
    We often see Jedi and Sith using hand gestures whenever they call on the Force to manipulate the material world around them. From Vader's Force choke to Yoda pulling Luke's X-Wing out of the swamp at Dagobah to all the fights in the PT and OT and everything in between. Throughout the entire saga any time a Jedi or Sith uses the Force they do so using a hand gesture.

    Which to me raises a fundamental question about the nature of the Force. Obviously they have telekinetic powers to communicate with one another, particularly after death, but that doesn't require manipulation of anything physical. Beyond that, for somebody with Force powers, is the hand gesture necessary to do anything that would interfere with the material world? Is the hand gesture an extension of their own physical being, and without it, would have no impact on the physical world around them? They seem to rely so heavily on the hand gestures to physically accomplish something it makes me wonder if they could accomplish the same tasks without it. How limited might a Jedi's power be if for whatever reason they were unable to use hand gestures? Could they accomplish the same things just by thinking and willing it to happen? If it is an extension of their physical being, can something physical block it? Or must it be Force on Force energies and is something deeper than a physical extension of the person? What then is the relationship between the telekinetic power and the hand gesture that draws from it?

    The only example I can think of a hand gesture not being used is when Luke is tied up on Endor and raises C3PO from the ground, but this seems like more the exception than any kind of rule. I would wonder if it has to do with the immense amount of concentration required to not have to use hand gestures, which can't be done during a battle sequence for example, where a Jedi or Sith simply can't put all of his energy and focus into it and has to rely on hand gestures. But then we also see examples of hand gestures being used even when there is no imminent danger or threat to the person using the Force. Maybe it has to do with the size, weight, and scope of whatever it is they are trying to manipulate, where Luke didn't require much focus to raise C3PO from the ground, perhaps Yoda did in raising the X-Wing out of the swamp. Or a combination of both, take for example Luke being in the ice cave, where he had to use a hand gesture to get his lightsaber, a small item, but only because an imminent threat was present.

    So what is the significance and/or importance of the hand gestures when using the Force?
     
  2. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Vader doesn't seem to need to. When choking Ozzel, I don't think he raises his hand - and, at least initially, he doesn't use it in TESB when using telekinetically moved objects to hit Luke - though at one point he starts raising and lowering his lightsaber with each thrown object.
     
  3. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    In TESB, when we see Vader choking Ozzel, we only see a close up of his face. He might have been gesturing and we didn't see it. When it came to Cloud City, as you noted, he moves saber with each subsequent blow, but doesn't on the first two hits. As to Luke when he is tied up, it is possible that we don't see Luke move either of his hands while lifting Threepio. They are mostly off screen when he's using the Force. Though Luke doesn't gesture when trying the mind trick of Jabba, though we see him remove his hood when he does attempt it.
     
  4. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    I think these are illustrations of how powerful Vader is. Not everyone requires gestures to utilize the Force. I imagine Palpatine and Yoda didn't have to do so, but they did it out of habit.
     
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  5. darkspine10

    darkspine10 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Dec 7, 2014
    I like to think that more powerful you are, the less you need to move your hand.

    I don't know if it's supported by the films at all, but I like the concept.
     
  6. Dandelo

    Dandelo SW and Film Music Interview Host star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Aug 25, 2014
    nope.
     
  7. mes520

    mes520 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2012
    I think it depends how experienced and powerful one is.

    Easier to concentrate too?

    Also maybe it depends on what kind of Force power you're using. Like if you used the Force to pick up a heavy object you would probably need to use you're hands. Now if you're using the Force to simply to grab your lightsaber.
     
  8. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2011

    I think this is the answer. I think body motions are not strictly necessary, but they do have a measurable utility in making Force feats easier to accomplish with comparatively less mental exertion.

    I think using the Force has a lot in common with the art of qigong:

    Qigong, qi gong, chi kung, or chi gung (simplified Chinese: 气功; traditional Chinese: 氣功; pinyin: qìgōng; Wade–Giles: chi gong; literally: "Life Energy Cultivation") is a holistic system of coordinated body posture and movement, breathing, and meditation used for health, spirituality, and martial arts training. With roots in Chinese medicine, philosophy, and martial arts, qigong is traditionally viewed as a practice to cultivate and balance qi (chi) or what has been translated as "life energy".

    After all, one of the most important Jedi characters in the films does happen to be named for qigong.
     
  9. DBPirate

    DBPirate Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 20, 2015
    No, but if I could use the Force, I'd use the hand gesture. More elegant that way, I think.
     
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  10. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2013
    Vader doesn't even have a hand.

    It's a non-Force mechanical one so that suggests it's just a "pointer" for the use of the Force from mental commands using it as a focus.
     
  11. LZM65

    LZM65 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 24, 2015
    Vader didn't use his hand when he was throwing objects at Luke during their duel on Bespin.
     
  12. CT1138

    CT1138 Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 4, 2013
    I'm guessing it probably helps the Force user focus the Force on whatever they're trying to use the Force to do.
     
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  13. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001

    But he does point and move his Lightsaber right before Luke is struck.



    @ 3:54.
     
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  14. The Sith Camp

    The Sith Camp Jedi Knight star 4

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    Mar 10, 2015
    Well - doesn't it depend on the particular skill and experience and how 'attuned' one is with to the Force? I mean extremely Powerful and Experienced Force Users probably wouldn't need to do so in a sense ...
     
  15. Celidore

    Celidore Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    May 2, 2015
    No. But the hand gesture surely is required to have a more impressive effect :cool:
     
  16. SegNerd

    SegNerd Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Nov 18, 2015
    Obi-Wan didn't have to gesture to move Qui-Gon's lightsaber - if he did, he would probably have fallen!

    I don't think you have to gesture to use the Force. Just like you don't have to gesture when you speak, but most people just naturally do it anyway. Also, it gives kind of a "wink" to the audience who are more likely to understand what is happening if they see a gesture.
     
  17. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 1998
    Yeah, what SegNerd said. Also, I believe that using the Force is all in the mind, and the hand gesture is a custom or habit that helps the user get himself into the right frame of mind. So it's not necessary, but it can be helpful.
     
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  18. Raz Zaphon

    Raz Zaphon Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 9, 2000
    It's like playing racing game with a controller, in the old days before motion sensors, you notice yourself tilting it around corners even though the game doesn't receive feedback that way. It simultaneously helps yet doesn't make any difference at all.
     
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  19. DaveyWanKenobi

    DaveyWanKenobi Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 4, 2015
    The pelvic thrust tends to work equally well. Maybe slightly better.


    But to be serious, I think it's mostly for the viewer's benefit. If there was for instance some type of alien force user without 'arms' to gesture with, could they still use the force? I would think so.
     
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  20. Valairy Scot

    Valairy Scot Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Most likely it's a visual for the audience to recognize what's going on. Star Wars is full of visual and musical cues.

    With that said, if I'm wrong, it's probably a quicker way to focus.
     
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  21. La Calavera

    La Calavera Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2015
    In TCW, in the Utapau arc, Anakin implies that it’s difficult to hold very heavy things with the Force using “just one hand”.

    I assume that using one’s hands as some kind of physical extension of the mind is easier for a learner to control better the use of the Force, and once they evolve in skill, they might be able to pull the same results without any hands. But for extremely heavy things it’s likely that even the more powerful Force users struggle with lifting them without hands.
     
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  22. Darth Boycs

    Darth Boycs Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2018
    Don't forget that Vader's hands were mechanical by this stage. It seems to be only the Jedi.
     
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  23. theraphos

    theraphos Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    May 20, 2016
    There is precedent for hand movements as a mental/magical focus above and beyond the mention of Dungeons and Dragons (which uses it as a device to keep magic users from completely breaking the plot) that I brought up in a similar conversation recently, and that's mudras.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mudra
    "In hatha yoga, mudras are used in conjunction with pranayama (yogic breathing exercises), generally while in a seated posture, to stimulate different parts of the body involved with breathing and to affect the flow of prana, bindu (male psycho-sexual energy), boddhicitta, amrita or consciousness in the body."

    https://vinyasayogatraining.com/resources/mudra-positions-during-meditation-tutorial/
    "By definition “mudra” (or as we know them – hand positions) is a Sanskrit term meaning seal. As our hands are sites of sensory reception, they have a deep connection with the brain – thus the way we hold our hands can influence the way we hold our mind.

    In general, the mudra you pick will depend on how you want to direct the flow of energy in your body, and of course, what feels comfortable to you!

    We’ll review three of the most commonly used meditation mudras. Try them all out and see if you notice a difference in how you feel."

    The Force user gestures are greatly simplified next to those charts, but it does fit the spiritual logic of why such a thing might be useful.
     
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  24. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    I think that is absolutely the case. It brings to mind the world of Harry Potter and nonverbal spells, which require a great deal of mental discipline, as well as wandless magic, which can only be reliably performed by the most skilled witches and wizards.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2018
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  25. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 10

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    May 18, 2017
    You don't need to answer that question. (waves hand)