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Is there a point that is being missed? (Repost)

Discussion in 'Star Wars Community' started by Son of the Suns, Jan 25, 2001.

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  1. Son of the Suns

    Son of the Suns Administrator Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 6, 1999
    I was listening to the Ultimate Edition soundtrack today, and it reminded me of how much I loved Star Wars. So, I've decided to repost a thread that deals with the true meaning of SW and why we love it.

    "Is there a point that is being missed?" was posted almost a month after The Phantom Menace opened, at a time when the "gusher vs. basher" debates were just starting. Its author, YODA the all powerful, was not an Administrator yet, just an oldbie who had returned to the JC after not posting for awhile. The thread was a response to all the bitterness from both sides of the TPM debate, but instead of turning it into a redundant "This bickering is pointless" thread, YTAP decided to make it a thread about the true meaning of the SW saga and why it fascinates us so much. Gusher and basher alike discussed SW's impact in a calm and intelligent manner, a rare thing in those days and still a rare thing now. It's been one of my personal favorite threads since it was posted, and I hope that this repost is read by some of the newest members of the JC and I hope that they can keep this intelligent discussion going.


    YODA the all powerful - 6/18/99 1:32am
    ____________________________________

    The following story has a purpose... bear with me:

    I remember spending about six months in P:SA debating speculation adnaseum. I was filled with sooo many hopes of what was to come from this movie. I had visions of great Jedi battles and unparralled drama. I was well versed in my spoilers. I initially was skeptical about Yoda's new look and sound, an 8 year old boy playing Anakin, and of course Jar-Jar Binks. It got to the point that I was afraid that the movie was spoiled by rumors and preconcieved notions when I sat in my seat with my popcorn on that fateful day. I pondered what I knew... and what I thought would happen.

    Then the lights dimmed and I could not concentrate on the previews due to the debate raging in my head. Could I still like Star Wars? And more importantly: Was THIS going to be Star Wars? Was I going to be able to recognize what I loved about the original movies in this new movie?

    Then the moment that I had been longing for for 16 long years happened... The Lucasfilm Logo followed by the eruption of the music that has become an enigmatic pop culture icon... infused in the psyche of humanity world-wide. I immediatly cassed aside my knowledge without even realizing it. My preconcieved notions were erased. My TPM knowledge was a tabula rasa starving to be filled with the experience. It was then that I realized an important issue and the point of this thread:

    I realized what Star Wars meant to me.

    It was not about how good ILM could generate a CG character and how belivable they could make it.

    It was not about whether characters would be consistent or believable.

    And ironically enough, it was not about whether this would surpass ESB as the most dramatic SW movie in my mind.

    It was about finally having an introduction to the galaxy that I had come to love... seen as it was meant to be seen. It was about finally getting a hold of that Holy Grail of SW lore which had festered in my mind's eye for most of my life. It was about seeing that "more civilized age" that had occupied much of my conscious imagination.

    "But most important of all..." it was about reliving that which I loved about SW more than its plot, its characters, its special effects, or even its drama... And that is the SW message. Good will triumph over evil... trust in your spirit and turn off your targeting computer when you feel the force.

    I personally feel that many people who have expressed (no matter how eloquently) a negative opinion of TPM are missing this point.

    So I urge everyone to express what YOU feel is the message behind the Star Wars saga. Take some time to think about it... rewatch the classics if you feel the need, but get in touch with what you love about SW. Try and see it through the eyes of the child that most of you once were... when you had first become captivated by the experience. When you have
     
  2. Son of the Suns

    Son of the Suns Administrator Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 6, 1999
    SlaveII - 6/19/99 9:52pm
    ___________________________________

    This thread has been a great read. What does Star Wars mean to me, and what did TPM do for me?

    I have been a true fan of Star Wars for almost 15 years. Before that, I had a passing interest. In late 1985, my dad passed away and I was devastated. A few months later, I saw ESB on cable. I was stunned by it. It was something that had the power not only to take my mind off my loss, but it made me almost feel giddy inside because it was such a fantastic adventure.

    Since then, I have put together a huge collection of memorabilia and have seen those three films hundreds of times each. Every character is interesting to me. I never post in the threads that ask you which character you would be because there are times when I have imagined I would like to be just about all of them.

    It was heaven for me when the SEs came out in '97. I saw each film a dozen times. I have been anticipating Episode 1 since I became a fan 15 years ago.

    The anticipation slowly began to climax for me on May 3rd. I stood in line at midnight at Toys-R-Us to shop for new exciting stuff. I found each action figure that night, even the elusive Mr. Maul. The next day at work, people I told about my late night shopping spree were dumbfounded and amazed that an adult male manager would do something as crazy as that. "You can go buy the stuff at lunch, it's everywhere. Why go at midnight and stand in a line?" they asked. My answer: "You're not a fan, you don't get it. The whole point was to be there at the first moment, with the other fans. To create a memory I will never forget." Going at lunch to stand there by myself and gather the figs would be an unremarkable experience.

    Then, I took a the 12th off to get tickets. I stood in line in the sun for 5 1/2 hours. Got completely sunburned. Bought 12 tickets, the limit, 9 of which were for me for different showings. I met some great people that day, made some nice friends. Created another wonderful memory. Outside of the theater, we were entertained that day by Boba Fett and Darth Maul dueling with lightsabers in the parking lot. The group I was with in line had lunch in line, held each others place in line so we could take breaks and chatted about everything in general. After the ticket purchase was made, I went to Taco Bell for lunch and began the journey of collecting game pieces, kid's meal toys and cup toppers.

    The 18th came and I was a complete wreck all day. I was convinced I was gonna drop dead before the midnight show. My best friend and I were meeting at the theater and excited about being there. I stood in line and had a great time with a whole new set of fans. In the theater, a trivia contest was put on by the theater manager and all 500 or so people took part. It was a huge party and everyone was having a ball.

    Then, the previews began. My heart began pounding. The audience roared with applause and whistles. Then the 20th Century Fox logo appeared and thunderous applause and cheers sounded. And I realized, this was it. All of the stories I had read. All of the speculation I had taken part in and followed. I thought about the Jedi Council, and pictured my friends from here sitting across the country at the same time, feeling the same emotion. I thought about all of the pictures I had seen, and the anticipation of finally seeing it all in motion was so great.

    The Lucasfilm logo appeared and even more thunderous applause erupted. The whole theater was rocking. You could hear the audiences roaring as well in the other 4 auditoriums at this theater who were seeing it as well.

    Once again, deafening applause as "A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away..." appeared.

    Then, abrupt silence. And I knew that these were the true fans. They brought the house down with cheers, but knew that the exciting crash of the Star Wars theme was seconds away and everyone wanted to hear it. So there was absolute silence.

    And then it began. After the first few seconds, I could not hear the music for the applause and cheer
     
  3. Son of the Suns

    Son of the Suns Administrator Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 6, 1999
    Jaredan - 7/30/99 3:16pm
    ___________________________________

    So this is where all the thoughtful and emotionally honest discussion has been hiding all this time. Thanks once more, YTAP for reminding us why we care enough about a few thousand feet of celluloid to be arguing about them.

    Unfortunately, I wasn't old enough to see either ANH or ESB in their original run (I was born as the final version of ANH was being written), but I did see ROTJ. It was already the second weekend of its release in the summer of 1983, and my local multiplex is right next to a Toys-R-Us (convenient, no?). I had begged my Dad to to take me to the movie the first weekend, but he flatly refused. I got him to pile me in the old Toronado and drive me there on a Saturday afternoon. When we got to the theater, we found the free-standing 10-plex ringed by the ticket line three times. To my dismay, my father didn't even stop to check how long the wait would be (a wise choice, in retrospect), and drove us to the toy store, ostensibly to pick up diapers for my baby sister. But after picking them up, he took me to the action toys section, and handed me one of those four-foot long lightsabers that made the moaning sound when you waved them around. Naturally, I picked green. I got to see the movie at a matinee a few days later and I loved it, but I had just as much fun, if not more, that Saturday afternoon-- standing in the middle of my yard, a seven-year-old waving around a plastic lightsaber much too big for him, defending the galaxy.

    I actively avoided TPM spoilers, wanting to experience it fresh, but it was difficult not to get some information beforehand. But once those lights went down, and Johnny Williams' magnificent first chord blared from the speakers, that seven-year-old smiled, and didn't stop for the entire time. I cheered for the good guys, booed at the bad guys, and stood up and applauded when it was all over.

    Star Wars makes me feel like a kid, and in this world, that's a special gift.

    Thanks, George.



    Schmapdi - 8/4/99 1:33pm
    ___________________________________

    I think everyone should read this.



    The Obi-Wan and Only - 8/4/99 2:48pm
    ___________________________________

    I agree with you completely. I too was able to grasp what Star Wars is all about and I was wondering if anyone else really got the point.

    Thanks!



    Crix Madine - 8/4/99 4:10pm
    ___________________________________

    Brilliant post YTAP.

    Just brilliant.



    apprentice - 8/4/99 4:39pm
    ___________________________________

    I feel that SW is part of who I am. I was seven when I saw it at the theater. It was my first 'real'movie. I fell in love with Luke (hey I was only seven- my tastes have improved) But the thing I remember most is the feeling. I was swept away. I (on some level) identified with the characters and reveled in their victory. I know it sounds corny, but it showed that good perserveres and that we all have a shot. I mean killing womp rats one minute and destroying a death star the next. Wow

    Now being closer to thirty than I dare admit, I felt the same excitement with TPM. I couldn't wait to see what was in store for us next. I felt the same way after I saw ANH.

    And I can't wait for more.



    Rhui Chatar - 8/4/99 6:49pm
    ___________________________________

    I wasn't looking forward to TPM at all. Never followed any of the hype stuff. Saw the trilogy way back when, I was an adult then, numbers are not important. Went and saw 1 of the SE versions when it came out, like going to see old friends.

    Then they give me this ticket at work and say you have to go- its at midnight and troops are expecting your presense. Ok, so what's one late night out. Then I figure I better go take a look at what GL has planned. Qui-gon Jinn?, you got to be joking- what a give away...

    Well to make a long story short this movie has made me think about stuff that I haven't thought about for 16 years, and I didn't know how much I missed all that stuff.

    thanks George!
    RC



    Son of the Suns - 8/8/9
     
  4. Kessel Runner

    Kessel Runner Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 1999
    Wow,

    SotS, you have once again proven why I am but a pupil in archaeology. Terrific dig.


    What does SW mean to me? Well, as many of these posts say, it transports me. It's not about the acting or the images (well not totally), but about the ideals. As jas said so many moons ago, it makes me realize that you follow your heart, do good, and be unwavering in your ideals and you can accomplish almost anything.

    I went into TPM knowing much, but not all, of the story. I was lucky enough to see it before it premiered, at the LFL screening. I sat with my new girlfriend (now bride to be) and was totally transformed. I sat there holding her hand, squeezing it when the logo appeared, and felt something very odd......

    It was if I was existing out of the space-time continuum. I was young, I was old, I was in love, I was re-experiencing everything I had ever known. Sitting there, with TJD, I realized that this movie had come to mean even more to me than I thought it did or ever would. Not only did it transport me into an idealistic vision of humanity, it also brought me the greatest love I could know.
     
  5. Aunt Jar Jar Mimah

    Aunt Jar Jar Mimah Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 10, 1999
    Star Wars was the first film I ever saw in a theater. -It was larger than life. I don't think I thought the story entirely real, but spent much of my time believing it was. Now that I'm older, I an grateful George chose to expand the SW galaxy and in a sense expand the immagination of my adult mind. I realized my childhood playground still exists, and adults can still daydream.

    (Thank you SotS. I had previously missed this marvelous thread).
     
  6. Yanksfan

    Yanksfan Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2000
    What do I love about star wars? Well it sounds shallow, but: Han Solo.

    I'm serious though! I hero-worshipped him when I was like five years old. I wanted to *be* him. When I rewatched the trilogy in High School I realized I *wanted* him period. He's like the epitome (sp?) of cool.

    Hmph. Maybe that's why I have a tendency to date scoundrels now.


    ..interesting.........
     
  7. YODA the all powerful

    YODA the all powerful Moderator Emeritus star 4 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 5, 1998
    There is nothing wrong with a little hero worship Yanksfan.

    And yes, KR, you are spot on in your estimation of SOTS. He is the original "JC Archaeologist," and there was a time when I would have argued for that title, but he clearly has it. He has a keen sense of the important threads in the JC's history, which is why I am so honored that this thread meets his distinction.

    I remember this thread well. It is the only thread, in my long and industrious carreer of hard work and dedication to the JC ;), that I truly put my heart into.

    I am, at minimal, touched by its resurection, but at most, hopeful for its future discussion... It is something that will never die as long as we try to bridge the gap between old and new SW fans. I am proud of the impact it has had thus far, but more hopeful of the future impact it will have. If there is ever a thread I am most proud of, it is this one.

    Remember me by remembering this thread.

    MTFBWY

    YTAP
     
  8. Commander Antilles

    Commander Antilles Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 21, 1999
    Excellent post, SOTS! :)

    I had a hell of a time arranging to fly out to the States from the UK to see TPM (being disconnected before I could book tickets on the phone, getting there and finding that I *still* had no tickets, etc), but it all became worthwhile when the Fox logo and fanfare came up on screen, and the cinema erupted in cheers.
    I sat there spellbound the whole way through, cheering with the others when Captain Panaka introduced Artoo, smiling when Artoo and Threepio met for the first time, sad when Anakin and Shmi parted, silence when Darth Maul struck Qui-Gon down, and cheers again when Obi-Wan defeated Maul.

    Afterwards, my brother and I went outside, looked at each other, and said "what planet are the critics on?"
     
  9. bright sith

    bright sith Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 27, 1999
    I remember first seeing this thread when I came to the JC. Great stuff.
     
  10. Kessel Runner

    Kessel Runner Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 1999
    Help me YTAP/SotS, you're our only hope.
    :cool:> Great work by the both of you.



    CA, that is great. I've described the meeting of my fiance ad nauseum so I won't detail it again but my TPM experience was truly life altering. Everything about the line experience was amazing. From meeting people who helped make this movie to talking to people from all over the world, it's something I will never forget. I was hardly spoiler free but I didn't know it all. I'll never forget sitting in that theater with the LFL employees on the Sunday before it opened. 1100 employees and their families in that theater and about 40 of us campers. The ovation we got from these people who made the film was just inspiring. We were the reason it was made to some degree.

    And then that moment, sitting in the 4th to last row in a theater that holds 1200 people, next to my new girlfriend and soon-to-be fiance. The 20th Century fanfare and we both started to get excited. but when STAR WARS flashed on teh screen and the Opening Theme started, and TJD squeezed my arm I was totally transported to another place and time. It wasn't the past and it wasn't the future. I existed outside of time, just the movie and my gal.
     
  11. Son of the Suns

    Son of the Suns Administrator Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 6, 1999
    Great posts everyone. I'm glad that the repost has allowed this excellent discussion to continue.

    Commander Antilles: "Excellent post, SOTS! :)"

    All I did was repost this. You have YTAP to thank for this classic thread. :)

     
  12. Commander Antilles

    Commander Antilles Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 21, 1999
    I missed this the first time round, originally.

    SOTS, you should have reposted this in the TPM forum so more people can contribute.
     
  13. Son of the Suns

    Son of the Suns Administrator Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 6, 1999
    After the original version of this thread was moved from P(SA) to TPM, it really didn't get much attention, so I thought it would get a better response in SW Misc (and despite the small reply count, I think it's achieved that). Also, it's a general topic about SW and not just TPM, so it's more on-topic here than in that forum.
     
  14. NhikRath

    NhikRath Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 25, 2000
    Hmm; very good. I think this was the first JC thread I ever read when I found the site just before TPM. I'll post my two cents on Monday if you don't mind; I'm stressed for time right now.

    Lord Nhik Rath
     
  15. NhikRath

    NhikRath Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 25, 2000
    As promised...

    To begin: TPM. While not all up to the hype that was created; TPM was much better than many made it out to be. Not only did it begin the saga but it introduced new stunning visuals and designs unlike anything ever seen. (Though I still say the N-1 fighter is the most crappily designed fighter in SW. It's simply stupid.) Anyways; I must say that my most favorite SW shot is in TPM. (When the queen's ship is landing on Coruscant and they do a side shot of Palpatine where he turns towards the camera. The shot just sums up the whole movie in one potent gesture. Palpatine's whole future animosities are funneled into his eyes as he turns and seems to say "You know me.")

    But what does the entirety of Star Wars give me? What it is that touches me unlike anything else? I thought about this for a few days before I felt I could adequately answer. And this is what I got:

    Star Wars is another world that's reality is blindingly beautiful. War and combat is beautiful. The Force is beautiful. The ultimately advanced technology is beautiful. The realities of the universe are able to soften my heart and harden my will. The shear mass of its' forces dwarf our own with no effort. Perhaps what Star Wars gives me is a new view of my own world. Look how frail we are; yet look at what can be achieved. Advance and you will prevail; expand and you will see the beauty of power. This is why the Empire is and always will be the single most important SW element. The Empire represents strength where we have failed. The Republic is nothing but a bickering senate. The Empire is expansion and strength and advancement. The Empire understands the true nature of the Force; compassion has no place where the spirit of a civilization is at stake. The individual has no place when the civilization can prosper. Star Wars tells me about myself; by showing me a world of ideals and making me choose my path. This is a gift that no man can give; but to himself. But Star Wars has made it so much simpler and easier; showing me power and showing me corruption. In this way I learn and grow. What is a life and how can it be used; this is the ultimate understanding.

    Lord Nhik Rath
     
  16. Kessel Runner

    Kessel Runner Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 1999
    quote:
    This is why the Empire is and always will be the single most important SW element. The Empire represents strength where we have failed. The Republic is nothing but a bickering senate. The Empire is expansion and strength and advancement. The Empire understands the true nature of the Force; compassion has no place where the spirit of a civilization is at stake.



    wow, I never thought that something so cold and disheartening could be found within these films. Do you honestly believe that the Empire is the ultimate "good" in Star Wars? The films show how this cold/blind progress destroys those who live under it. What kind of civilization is it that has no compassion? Your response here makes me sad for our future.





    I'd like to add to my SW experience. I recently was able to get my sister to discover Star Wars for herself. She's only watched the films once so far. She's 20 and never really seen them before. She, too, has found the beauty of the myth. It was a wonderful experience to talk to her about what she saw, and how she enjoyed it. Finding that childhood excitement in here, raised those same old feelings in myself. I only wish I could have been sitting next to her while she experienced the films.
     
  17. Son of the Suns

    Son of the Suns Administrator Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 6, 1999
    I'm glad that your sister liked the films, KR. Sharing the magic of SW with a person who had not experienced it before is a great thing indeed. My cousin used to laugh when I told him that I loved SW, but when he saw the OT and TPM and said that they were the greatest films he had ever seen, it was a wonderful feeling. :)
     
  18. Kessel Runner

    Kessel Runner Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 1999
    Yeah... I don't know her very well yet, but I really respected and was proud that she liked them so much for so many reasons. She wants to be an actress and has pretty good taste so it meant alot for that reason. Plus, of course I want to be able to share something that means that much to me with my newly found sister.

    And she loved TPM, which, again, I think proves that to the newly initiated this film actually fits well with the entire experience/concept of what the SW galaxy is.
     
  19. emilsson

    emilsson Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 5, 1998
    Thanks a lot SotS for bringing this up. I consider my two posts to this thread the very best I have done here.

    And reading them again almost 2 years later is like seeing everything in them in a new light. Since then so much has happened, but above all I have seen what compassion can do. Star Wars is right to emphasize it the way it does. I saw the full power of empathy during my practical experience time (I'm a Education major). Love is indeed the greatest thing in this world.

    I don't know if that has anything directly to do with the actual topic except that stressing the importance of love and compassion can never stop. Star Wars is one of the many stories that does this. Since I have started my college studies with the hope of becoming a teacher I can feel the way I percieve the essence of Star Wars has slightly changed. Now I see how important it is to teach younger people why we are all dependent upon one another. And that we must see how important hope is. For what is there without hope and caring for one another?
     
  20. Kessel Runner

    Kessel Runner Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 1999
    Interesting you should phrase your response that way emilsson....

    I met the love of my life in line, so in a way, Star Wars also brought love and compassion into my life in a way I did not know it could exist. I knew and understood the theories of love and compassion as displayed in SW, but it took the line experience of TPM to actually have me experience it. On opening night I discovered that I would do anything for this woman.
     
  21. Erin Kenobi

    Erin Kenobi Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 30, 2000
    SOTS, thank you for re-posting this thread. I never saw the original so it was a treat to read it for the first time.
     
  22. Son of the Suns

    Son of the Suns Administrator Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 6, 1999
    "I don't know if that has anything directly to do with the actual topic except that stressing the importance of love and compassion can never stop."

    I agree wholeheartedly. In light of recent tragic and violent events around the world, it is important to get accross the Star Wars message of overcoming the dark side within us and around us through love and compassion.
     
  23. Son of the Suns

    Son of the Suns Administrator Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 6, 1999
    It's been a month since this thread got a post, so....
     
  24. E_Greyshadow

    E_Greyshadow Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 11, 2001
    Wow. What a great thread. Sorry if my sentances are so short, but I just powered through the entire thing in one sitting and it's still going through my head. What does Star Wars mean to me...

    Some of the earliest memories of mine date back to the mid-eighties. My two older sisters and I would play "Star Wars", run around in the backyard, have fun. We would watch the movies on our Betamax (remember THAT relic?). Both of them could recite any of the opening crawls at once. We wore out our Star Wars tapes, and had to get new ones!

    Flash forward some number of years and innumerable times watching the trilogy on the small screen. There are rumblings of a re-released original trilogy, to be followed by the first of three prequals. My sisters (one of whom is dating an absolute Star Wars nut) and I get very excited. We all get there and watch each of these re-released gems on opening night (except ESB, I was away at camp...). RotJ, we dress up, much to the delight of the small children, who want pictures taken with the group (I should put some up later for all to see). And then the wait for the prequal.

    I was excited. Always in the back of my head was the knowledge of this upcoming film. I was thrilled to hear of Liam Neeson being in it (love his acting), absolutely ecstatic when I saw said Mr. Neeson count with the Count on Sesame Street (HE MADE IT RAIN!). I couldn't wait. I went several times to the local theater to find out when tickets would be on sale. Finally, he had an answer - they would be on sale a week before opening night, on a Wednesday. I arrived at noon the Monday before, with a lawnchair in my hand. Fifth in line, here in good ol' Winnipeg. Met a lot of people, watched the trilogy a couple more times (there was an outlet on the wall outside the theater where we were camped out), and got me 12 tickets for myself and my friends. Went to the movie for 12:00 midnight. 20 minutes into the show, the projector breaks...! I thought the poor sap they sent out to tell us the news was going to get lynched! Fortunately for the theater, the show was back up and running in another 5 minutes. Aside from the break, it was magic.

    I just wanted to recant my history with Star Wars to say that my life has always been with Star Wars. I've loved the movies since the beginning, love 'em now, will love 'em always.

    Besides, comparing TPM and the original trilogy is unfair - 3 to 1, guys! Wait for all three to come out to compare! ;)
     
  25. Son of the Suns

    Son of the Suns Administrator Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 6, 1999
    Time for another "uppers"....
     
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