Saga Is there a reason for the anti-droid racism?

But don't you feel something when you watch that scene? Have you really never looked out at the horizon and felt a sense of longing that had nothing to do with wanting to literally travel to the point you were looking at?

And don't you find Darth Vader scary-looking?



Why is that? Don't you think it has a little bit to do with the fact that his mask resembles a skull? Why else would his mask be scary? It's just a mask. A mask can't hurt you. It's an inanimate object. But by calling to mind the grisly visuals of death, the mask hurts you emotionally (in theory, at least).

That's what symbols do. They affect you emotionally by appealing to visual and conceptual triggers which are common to most human minds. It's similar to the way we're wired to recognize and respond to different human facial expressions. As far as facial expressions go, it's certainly true that some people don't react to them in the same way that most people do. I don't know. I just can't imagine approaching art--or anything, for that matter--from a purely literal perspective. For me, that stuff's like small talk: boring, superficial trivialities masking the emotional realities beneath the surface.

And believe it or not, I used to approach things the same way as you back when I was doing English assignments in school. But then something just clicked and suddenly I understood what all my teachers were talking about, and I gained a much deeper enjoyment of the literature I was consuming. The stories weren't just an arbitrary series of events anymore. They were about the author's life, they were about my life, they were about everybody's lives. It didn't matter if I'd never floated down a river on a raft like Huck Finn. I was doing the exact same thing he was doing simply by living my life the way I wanted to live it. And I got the exact same feeling when I watched Luke Skywalker journeying into outer space for the first time in Star Wars. So in emotional terms, the Mississippi River in Adventures of Huckleberry Finn and outer space in Star Wars are the exact same thing. Neither of them are actually physically real, but they induce the exact same emotional state in actual physical reality. That's the power of symbols. They allow you to recognize the commonalities in our collective human experience.

Trust me, I also think people sometimes take symbolism too far and end up overcomplicating things (in a way which actually ends up diluting the emotional content). But that doesn't mean there's no value in symbolism.

 

To be honest, I didn't catch the symbolism with the sunset either. I knew Luke felt trapped based on his conversation with Owen and his facial expression, but it never occured to me that the horizon and suns were supposed to symbolize anything until I read people's written thoughts about that scene.

Same with the solar eclipse scene on Mustafar. When I saw it, I was like, "Wow! This scenery is spectacular!" And then the camera turned to Anakin, and I was like, "Hey his eyes aren't yellow anymore! Sidious's stayed yellow I think...how come Anakin's turned back? Oh and he's crying. He's in pain."
And then I read online posts about how the eclipse symbolizes his bleak future and lava shows that he's literally in hell, and I was like, "Whaa? Really? Such gorgeous scenery is supposed to symbolize a bleak future? Well, light usually symbolizes something good, and an eclipse is when a light source is getting blocked, so it's something bad...I guess that makes sense. I still love the beautiful scenery though."

By the way, I'm INTJ.
I'm guessing The_Phantom_Calamari might be INFP? (Please correct me if I'm wrong)

 

I don't know if anyone responded to this point, since I just started reading the thread.

Nobody charged Kyp Durron for doing similar to Wedge Antilles' girlfriend, to prevent her building another Sun Crusher superweapon.

Separately, the only race for which I have heard an actual reason to dislike droids, are the Gotal, as the electronics interfere with whatever their two horns do.

 

I figured that was mostly because Luke had basically given a blanket pardon to Kyp for all his Dark actions, after Mon Mothma turned the task of judging Kyp, over to him.

That - and Qui-Xux wasn't too happy about having all that superweapon-related knowledge in the first place, which made her potentially a very big target.

 

My recollection of the Qwi Xux intervention, so could be wrong, is that it changed her from a vibrant individual waiting for her beau, to a vacant, drooling basket case. There is no defense. And certainly not your last line.

I didn't know about Mon Mothma passing the decision to Luke.

I cannot recall any other instances of mind wipes being done on organics in SW, but I doubt any led to legal consequences.

 

Nope - in Champions of the Force it's clear that Qwi is still mentally healthy - and in New Jedi Order she's managed to rebuild her knowledge of things like quantum shielding (though she definitely doesn't want superweapon knowledge again).

Even in Dark Apprentice immediately after the incident, she's still able to explain what happened to Wedge - she's upset that she's lost a lot of her memories of him along with her memories of superweaponry.

What Kyp did was undoubtedly wrong - but the impression I get from both Champions of the Force and Darksaber (and the later New Jedi Order books that have Qwi), is that Qwi has forgiven him and regards it as something of a blessing rather than a curse.

The scene in question:

Chapter 21: Champions of the Force:
Mon Mothma, flanked by her ever-present medical droids, seemed only partially aware of what was going on. None of the other Council members had suggested removing her from office while she was still willing to attend meetings, although Mon Mothma contributed little. Han was stunned by how much the Chief of State had worsened in the last few days.
One of the functionaries beside the sculpted door arch tapped on a long chime, sending a pure tone into the air to call the attendees to order.
Han didn't know much about the protocol of government, but he didn't plan to stand by and do nothing while Kyp was trounced by bureaucratic bigwigs. Before one of the members could speak, Han stepped forward, "Hey! Could you let me put in a word for my friend, Kyp Durron?"
Aging General Jan Dodonna hauled himself to his feet. Ancient and weathered, like a piece of gnarled driftwood, the bearded general still seemed filled with energy. His eyes flashed at Han. "The prisoner may speak for himself, General Solo. He has certainly shown no reluctance to act for himself. Let him answer our questions now."
Chastised, Han stepped back and looked at the floor, tracing patterns made by cracks in the inset flagstones. Since Dodonna had the lectern, he leaned forward to look down at Kyp. The young man lifted his tousled head and blinked sheepishly at the old tactician.
"Kyp Durron," Dodonna said, "you stole the Sun Crusher. You attacked and temporarily incapacitated the Jedi Master Luke Skywalker. You blew up the Cauldron Nebula and obliterated two other inhabited systems. I will not debate the tactical significance of your actions—but we cannot tolerate juggernauts who make up their own orders and cause wholesale destruction on a whim!"
The other Council members agreed. General Rieekan's deep, thick voice reverberated through the chamber. "This Council had already decided that the Sun Crusher would never be used. We disposed of it in a safe and protected place, but you knowingly thwarted our wishes."
The other members fell quiet after Rieekans words. They seemed eager to add their own condemnations, but realized there would be little point in it.
After a moment of silence Kyp spoke. His voice sounded impossibly thin and small, reminding Han and everyone there just how young this boy was. “I have no excuse for my actions. I’ll accept the consequences.”
“Even if your actions demand the death penalty?” the obese Senator Hrekin Thorm asked. “Such destruction as you have caused can warrant nothing less than execution.”
“Wait a minute!” Han said. The Council glared at him, but he ignored their silent rebukes. “I know, I know—but listen to me for a minute. Kyp wasn’t himself. He was possessed by the evil spirit of a Sith Lord who has since been defeated. And he did do some good. He destroyed Daala’s fleet. How many lives did he save by doing that? We are at war, after all.”
Mon Mothma’s voice wheezed from her cracked lips. Her voice came out as a ragged whisper. The rest of the chamber fell into a deep hush as she began to talk. “Kyp Durron,” she said, “you have the blood of millions, perhaps billions, on your hands. This is a governing body here, not a judicial council. We have no right to decide your fate. You—“ She gasped as if using most of her energy just to fill her lungs. “You must be judged by the Jedi Master. We are not qualified to judge your crimes.”
She raised one of her hands to gesture toward Han. “Take him to Yavin. Let Master Skywalker decide his fate.”

 

I think people are just generally irritated with droids in Star Wars because they view them as toasters. Who annoyingly have attitude. Like let's say you wanted to make toast and coffee and while you got toast and coffee out of it, both the toaster and the coffee maker where whinging about how crammed and stuffy the cabinets are, you'd get annoyed at them too.

 

An influence from Dune.

 

C3PO. It's all his fault.

 

Except Artoo is like a toaster that makes perfect toast every time, and also makes a perfect bagel even thought it doesn't even have a separate bagel setting. Also it has jet boosters and flies.

 

That droid is one in a million.

 

The official line of the empire is that droids are NOT sentient.

We encourage owners of droids to not treat droids as equals or as alive.
If you think back to the clone wars, mindless droids slaughtered many populations without remorse.

As such it is illegal for droids to be without a restraining belt or to won combat orientated droids without the correct licences.


This warning also applies to many non sentient xenological lifeforms such as wookies that need to be properly controlled for the safety of loyal humans across the empire.

 

Moved from another thread:

Because you don't need to intent to program these things for them to occur. They can result from the AI's experience. The fact that we can't define these things is the point because we can't know when an AI develops them exactly.

 

Wow right after I made a new thread for it and tagged you.

 

Ha. Opps. It looks like I totally threw you under the bus.

 

I agree with you in terms of Star Wars logic. But I think in reality, machines are just dead matter made to do what we program them to. Though, that may change with quantum computing. (I personally think that consciousness interacts with matter on a quantum level, as is claimed by one theory in particular.)

 

I'll reply in @Outsourced's thread.

 

You are a gentleman and a scholar.

 

I'm going to keep my argument short and sweet for you on this new thread.

Computers have storage, right? Droids in SW also need to have storage.
What do droids store? They likely store their experiences and their responses to experiences. (Input and output)
Who creates a droid's memory stores? A Maker does.
What if the original Maker vanishes or dies? A new Maker may obtain custody of the droid.
Should a droid owner retain documentation of ownership? Yes.
Can a droid become a Maker to another droid? No.
Are some droids illegal? Yes.
Did the Empire try to confiscate some types of droids? Yes.
Can some droids be grouped together to create a race or ethnicity? No.
Can there be racism against droids? No
Do droids have emotions? No, they have mechanical responses that result from hardware and software.
Do droids have gender? No, they are gender-neutral or non-gendered. The outward gender is a result of programming.


That's it. Those are all my views and you are free to comment.

 

You assume too much!

 

You assume too little!

 

Droids can have a fake gender, since some look more (fe)male than others, but they dont have a gender.
I dont think you can they there is racism against them.
They are machines, would it be racism if someone hate toasters?

 

Does your toaster have independent thoughts? Does it feel pain? Does it have it's own hopes and dreams? Does it follow it's own agenda?

Droids and our own household appliances have virtually nothing in common except for the fact that they're machines. Are we no better than amoebas because we're both squishy?