Senate Israel/Palestine

I understand that the rockets don’t have targeting capabilities but it’s that hamas and isis which are both rivals of Israel and each other are attacking Israel.

Even though the rockets can’t reach Israel very well, Hamas in previous wars before 2009 and 2014 have targeted innocent civilians.

I am not accusing anyone on the boards on supporting Hamas this time. But if
Hamas had the capabilities and was stronger than Israel, and as strong as Hezbollah, they would try to push all the Jews into the sea.


Many of the rockets that Israel misses didn’t blocked in time have killed both military and civilian alike.


And for the record Vaderize03 I know that Iranians are not Arabs

 

I can't do this, folks. There's no way for me to continue this without violating some rules.

 

I can do it.

 

All I am pointing out is hamas not the Palestinians in general doesn’t believe in a two state solution a lot like how Benjamin Netanyahu doesn’t either.

 

Your initial post talked about Palestinians, not Hamas. I'm the one who brought up Hamas. Why are you trying to take credit?

 

@black_saber, I'm typing this up because I want to reach out. I don't like the continued hostility, and I don't think it's necessary either on a silly Star Wars forum. So don't fear I will slag you for your opinions anymore. Just allow me to share mine with you.

I understand how you feel about Hamas. I do. I agree with you about Hamas. Let's get that out of the way. Like you, I think of them as angry, unreasonable, violent, frothing at the mouth dudes. Mostly unreasonable. They're too far gone. They can't be reasoned with.

But as you said, Hamas is not the Palestinians. Palestinians are just a group of people. They deserve the same treatment as any other group of people. And that's all any Palestinian defender in this thread is after! I'm sure you'll find it in your heart to agree to that.

 

Ok Thanks, and I agree, but I think I will take a break from this thread because I don’t want things to get out of hand.

 

Look, you're here saying Hamas is bad. Okay sure...but you're not seeing the whole picture. Israel created Hamas through its abuse of the Palestinians. Does it not make sense that if you mistreat other people, eventually some of them will turn to violence and extremism? If you want Hamas to go away, then Israel needs to end its abuse of the Palestinians. As long as Israel continues behaving this way, it lacks the moral legitimacy to tell the Palestinians what to do.

 

Hamas is also created by the Muslim brotherhood and is affiliated with them. Yet there is competition between them.


I totally agree with you about the abuse of power Israel has over the Palestinian people and that needs to end.

On the other hand I don’t know if that would be enough. There is a lot of sectarian fighting among the Muslim extremists and nationalist groups.and on there side, some like Al Qaeda, ISIS or other salafists do try to provoke Israel and hamas even to fight each other when they both have a truce. Especially in the Gaza Strip or Sinai is where the more extremist groups operate.

You can read the source of all the news sources and Wikipedia. I have read the timelines on some of the dirty work hamas fighting other rival extremists.

 

Everyone's Saying The Quiet Part Out Loud Now, part 15679

 

My comment was meant as an analogy, not an attack on you.

Chill out.

 

It’s ok. I understand.

 

I’m Jewish, and I support Palestinian rights too. Give them a state, fully autonomous, with East Jerusalem as its capital. They deserve no less.

Oh yeah, and reparations from Israel too for decades of oppression and abuse.

 

I have grown to be convinced by the one-state solution crowd. That at this point the only way their rights will be guaranteed is to make them all equal citizens of the same nation with equal participation. Instead of a smaller, less powerful, poor, ethnic oblast next to a settler colonial nation that has invaded many a states with their own autonomy ag Egypt, Jordan, etc. Ethnic Oblasts even with the protection and enforcement of a larger power are still vulnerable, look at Lenin's Chechnya ASSR that enshrined a unique Sharia law government with strong women's rights but making it hard and fast that demanding things like Muslim women not be allowed to wear headscarves would be completely out of USSR jurisdiction, but of despite their loyalty and high-membership in the Old Bolshevik and seeing Lenin as a liberator, every successive leader mistreated them and exactly did the one thing Lenin specified not to. Even idealistic or life-saving actions like the Autonomous Jewish Oblast are not a substitute for an incorporated state. Cause ethnic borders can never be real and undisputed, so the appealing idea of granting independence to a group often backfires when it just creates a structure for ethno-nationalism.

Ethnostates or ethnic enclaves can be good temp measures, but seem to fail long-term, and end up being more of an accidental trap when a group is so lacking compared to its neighbors, particularly if they are also an ethnostate even for another oppressed group. Either it be a single nation with no segregation, or there can be no-state at all at this point. The two-state solution has been dead and is unfavorable to Palestine since the 70s at least

 

The two state solution is the only one that seems feasible to me. You aren’t kicking the Israeli out and it’s obvious that due to oppression and other political tension many can’t get along. 2 states seems best, but I have never done heavy research on the topic. Just gathered info from news here and there

 

There's no workable map for a two-state solution. It's fiction. Israel made a viable Palestinian state impossible by carving up the land. There are highways in the Palestinian territories that are only accessible to Israelis. Whole cities have been walled in. Hebron is under occupation.

Spoiler

 

Well then I guess I am wrong. Unless someone wants to foot the Bill of fixing and completely changing roads and what not. To be honest I doubt they’ll ever be a solution

 

A solution is in sight when the US stops its $10 million military aid to Israel.

$10 million.

Per day.

 

While we doing that we should also cut the millions a day military aid to Pakistan, Egypt, And Jordan

 

@anakincol Source for millions of dollars per day in military aid to, say, Pakistan?

 

Going by the numbers I found here
https://www.cnn.com/2015/11/11/politics/us-foreign-aid-report/index.html

Israel is 8.5 million a day
Egypt is 3.5 million a day
Jordan 822,000
Pakistan is 767,000 a day.

Please check the math I had my echo dot do.

These have all gone up even Pakistan where it since briefly withheld in summer of 2019.

What I am saying is if we cut military assistance to Israel we should cut assistance to these countries as well and we have to cut Egypt's of we cut Israel as that's required by treaty.

This money could better be spent in the US helping US citizens in need.

I am saying this as a American Jew who has family in Israel

We need to cut off military funding to both sides of this.

 

Funding to foreign governments is a miniscule part of the overall US federal budget, and is dwarfed by many domestic spending items. This also ignores the fact that this is not a free money giveaway, but is deployed as part of the overall foreign policy strategy to elicit things like technical cooperation, political support, policy alignment, et cetera. That said, I would agree that in the Middle East, a lot of the policy motives are bad, and we should move towards being more responsible regional players.

 

Everything you wrote about Pakistan needing it can be said for Israel.
Nuclear Power, Check
Volatile internal politics, Check, the recent investigation in to Bibi, the past conviction of ehud Olmert for accepting bribesq( by my grandmother's Cousin no less!!!), Israel like Pakistan has had a Prime Minister assassinated in my lifetime.
Terrorist groups and or failed states on the border (Hamas in Gaza, Iranian funded Hezbollah in Lebanon, the failed state that is Syria currently)