Senate Israel/Palestine

@black_saber, do you have your fingers in your ears when you enter this topic?

You're usually a good guy.

But when you say:

And I say:



... Crickets.

Come on man, act like an adult, admit you were wrong, and we can move on.

 

Yeah I understand that more Palestinians have been killed than Israelis it’s just that I am Half Jewish and looking after my kin first,I don’t condone either Palestinians killing Israelis or the Israelis killing Palestinians.

But both sides are guilty in the conflict as much as Benjamin Netanyahu is an evil leader for Israel, as well as Ariel Sharon, so was Arafat and Arafat himself did kill innocent Israeli citizens too he also killed Lebanese Shiites and Lebanese Christians during the civil war the lasted in the 70s and 80s.

I understand that fatah and Israel are somewhat allies these days because of common enemies but Arafat has also violated the Oslo peace accords just as much as Israel did.

 

Your position would be more tenable if it didn't translate into "they both committed crimes so Israel is bad but should carry on as it is and a Palestinian state should not exist because it might be bad".

 

"I'm looking out for my kin first" I mean okay I accept that. At the end of the day, you support what you will, and I support what I will. I don't shy away from the sides I pick.

But for the purposes of debating a topic, can we put that aside and try to make good arguments? @black_saber

 

I don’t understand why the anti war movements thinks it’s okay to be anti Semitic if they are against all forums of racism and against religious intolerance.


But I do want to say what is controversial is saying “from the rivers to the sea Palestine will be liberated” is openly calling for the extermination of all the Jews in Israel.

Left wing anti semitism should not be tolerated and too bad roger waters hates Jews who was a member of Pink Floyd.

 

Which of your family members lives in Israel?

 

You seem to think that you have to either support Israel’s government or Palestinian terrorist groups in this argument. You don’t have to overtly support either.

 

None except my parents did live in Israel back in the 70s and my cousin did marry an Israeli man.

I am not accusing the members on boards of being anti Semitic but I am slandering other anti war protesters and roger waters as anti Semitic.

From the rivers to the sea is not advocating for a two state solution. It’s advocating the genocide of Israelis.

That’s why I worry that if the Palestinian state does happen and Israel has a state it could look a nation vs nation war instead of country fighting insurgent groups.

The BDS should also boycott Russia because of the occupation of Ukraine too and the UN is always calling Israel the biggest threat to world peace when there are other countries in the Arab world that are even worse like Saudi Arabia.

China is also systematically exterminating it’s Muslim population too.

 

Are you going to offer any counter points? Or are you going to reword the same thing for the 20th time?

It’s starting to get real annoying.

 

“From the rivers to the sea” is a popular slogan voiced by an oppressed population, it does not however form any part of official Palestinian policy which has been the platform throughout multiple interim agreements over the last three decades between the Palestinian Authority and the State of Israel.

In contrast the official Likud Party Charter stated for decades that the State of Israel rejected the establishment of a Palestinian state “west of the Jordan River”.

https://www.juancole.com/2014/08/charter-destruction-palestinian.html

 

It’s anti Semitic to the extent because it’s destroying the state of Israel and no rights for Jews to have a country of there own in the holy land.

I don’t understand how that statement from the rivers to the sea is not anti Semitic and how it is advocating a two state solution.

Keep in mind Russia is killing Chechens and China is also doing the same thing with ughhers who are Muslims of Chinese origins. Yet nobody supports boycotting those two countries.

This is boarder line anti semitism to always single out Israel when there are other countries that are just as bad and worse.

 

No one said that it’s not anti-Semitic (although I can’t rule out that some people who say that are just angry at Israel and not Jewish people generally).

People are. Biden just put sanctions on Russia and the only reason China only gets diplomatic grief for the most part is because they are the linchpin of the global economy.

 

Ok good thanks for the information but I was only criticizing the BDS movement and Roger waters for being anti Semitic.

 

So this isn't about your kin, just about race.

So, is it anti-Irish if you opposed an Irish ethnostate that would get part of the Holy Land and Jerusalem? And another that's an Italian ethnostate that gets another share of the Holy Land and Jerusalem? How many different groups get to have part of it? Anyone that says its a Holy Land? Or just the Jews? And if you disagree with the right to any group that can say they want the Holy Land as their own ethnostate, does that make you racist?


If BDS was racist, was it also racist against white South Africans when people boycotted South Africa in the 80s and early 90s?

 

The BDS only single out Israel and ignores other countries war crimes like Russia’s and Chinas.

They never slander Muslim government human rights abuses or religious intolerance within those regimes

They always blame Israel all the time and the BDS does not look at the bigger picture.

 

So.... you do believe that the Anti-Apartheid Movement was racist, then? It only singled out the white South African government and didn't "look at the bigger picture"

 

I know about the apartheid racism but right now the bds movement is only about slandering Israeli.

At Roger waters concerts, he has used inflatable pigs with Star of David’s symbols and cash signs.

Roger waters is a far left wing Nazi not because he hard in Israel but he had pushed and crossed the line of anti semitism.

 

You missed the point. Of course it is anti-Semitic, it’s anti-everything to do with Israel but it is a slogan voiced out of a deeply ingrained sense of helplessness and frustration. It is not official Palestinian policy whereas the Likud charter was effectively government policy and still is.

Do you remember the infamous “sand n****** to the gas chambers” graffiti which was carried out by fundamentalist Jewish settlers? Same ****.

 

Oh I know that the settlers extremists because they are that.

In fact if the settlers overthrew the Israeli government, Israel would be a lot like a Taliban medieval state but right now the Israeli government is like a mafios or becoming a nationalist state.

 

From what I know he’s pretty callous with anti-Semitic tropes, and much of the criticism he has received is valid. But I doubt he’s a Nazi.

 

Nonsense. Waters is not an anti-semite, BDS is not anti-semitic, and the fact that you doubt it is a win for Netanyahu.

@black_saber - post proof or retract.

 

I guess I will retract

There were some Nazis that did lean to the far left wing but most nazis where far right wingers but Otto Strasser who was a Nazi but also anti Hitler as well and that forum he started was called strasserism which was a another ideology of Nazism that’s anti Hitlerism.

I am not saying that the far left is a Nazi ideology but there are some who are anti Semitic and maybe roger waters is not a left leaning Nazi but he does tend to have anti Israel views that cross the line into becoming anti Semitic and lots of Jewish organizations do call him out on that.

I wish I could send links through my iPhone but I don’t know how.

 

I think you’re confusing anti-Semitism with anti- Zionism.

 

Anti Zionism is a forum of anti semitism because it denies the Jews to a right self determination of country of there own, criticizing Israel is not anti Semitic.

Martin Luther king did say that himself.

 

Then Zionism is a form of racism because it denies the millions of Israeli Arabs the right to self-determination of a country of their own, as they are treated as second-class citizens by any philosophy that argues that the country only truly belongs to one ethnic group (to say nothing of the Palestinians that are not citizens of Israel but are occupied)