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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

JCC ITT Unpopular but Correct Opinions

Discussion in 'Community' started by solojones, Apr 4, 2019.

  1. MotivateR5D4

    MotivateR5D4 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2015
    Sounds like somebody wasn't invited to play in any reindeer games.
     
  2. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Ramza made it complicated but he does have a point. Christmas is not a genre.

    Also, family friendly is a silly conventional standard that has ruined several potentially good creative works. Kids should watch tragedies since young age.
     
  3. Coruscant

    Coruscant Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2004
     
  4. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2008
    You’re clinging to the past, a past with Christmas movies. Embrace the liberating potential of the thread, wherein all things might be unmade. :p
     
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  5. DarthTunick

    DarthTunick SFTC VII + Deadpool BOFF star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2000



    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2020
  6. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 10

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    Oct 4, 1998
    Yippee ki yay.
     
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  7. SuperWatto

    SuperWatto Chosen One star 7

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    Sep 19, 2000
    People without kids should try to not have opinions on adult things.
     
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  8. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 27, 2017
    People without kids can't be considered adults?
     
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  9. SuperWatto

    SuperWatto Chosen One star 7

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    Sep 19, 2000
    It's an unpopular opinion, but it's correct.
     
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  10. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 27, 2017
    Wow!
    Well, in fairness it does apply to me, so I'm not in the position to challenge it.
     
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  11. Adam of Nuchtern

    Adam of Nuchtern Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 2, 2012
    The actual best Christmas film is The Lion in Winter.
     
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  12. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

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    Nov 20, 2012
    A Christmas Story was an okay and serviceable holiday film that got blown way the hell up in popularity for some inexplicable reason. I don't necessarily like it, but I don't hate it. It's just there, on the TV, on a loop, tormenting me. Make it stop.
     
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  13. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 27, 2000

    Guess I'll just return the house I bought to the bank since I'm not an adult.
     
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  14. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 27, 2017
    It's a bit of a semantic exercise, since depending on what we mean by "adult" it might or might not include parenting.

    I think he was just making a point about how kids force parents to be more responsible than what they would be without them, which I believe that on average, statistically, probably tends to be true.
    Then, of course, the question remains on whether I actually want to become responsible, or I'm rather fine the way things are, which doesn't have an obvious answer to me.
     
  15. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    This is only loosely related to your comment, but it got me thinking this...

    ...the Tragic/sorrowful/emotionally dark genre of “drama” is way too overvalued and given too much immediate respect way too often.

    It *can* be immensely valuable as entertainment and art... but the sheer number of totally forgettable Award-Bait dramas that still get nominated, praised, and analyzed by a small group of people as everyone else either ignores it or forgets about it belies the bias they experience.

    And this is not restricted to professional work - I’d even include the 7-8 minute long Dramatic Interpretation pieces kids across the world use for Speech competitions.

    “Sorrow-Fast-Food” is just as niche as any other genre when you get down to the brass tacks.

    More people have been moved and emotionally rewarded/shocked by the Guardians of the Galaxy movies knowing where to land a sucker punch in an otherwise joyful and jovial adventure than in hundreds of the usual “serious” dreck that fills up Oscar lists. Tahiti’s because the real key is mastering a broad range of emotions in your work, instead of just going “It’s sad, so therefore it’s good!”

    I’m not saying people should reject dark drama and tragedies. I’m just saying we need to become more aware of what actually makes a few of the resonate and recognize that sometimes even well-acted and well-written ones don’t really contribute anything more to mankind than well-choreographed and well-acted action movies and blockbusters if neither really leaves a true impact as the years go by.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2020
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  16. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 10

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    Oct 4, 1998
    ^ Ever seen the Drew Carey Show when they were trying for an Emmy award? [face_laugh]
     
  17. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 27, 2017
    Does anyone actually think that? I mean, The Room is technically meant to be sad....

    Btw, @godisawesome if you haven't done it yet, it'd be nice if you come and say hello in the besties thread.
     
  18. Darth Smurf

    Darth Smurf Small, but Lethal star 6

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    Dec 22, 2015
    People without kids have no idea about kids and should shut up when it comes to raising children
     
  19. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 27, 2017
    Guys I just half-jokingly said that they shouldn't watch happy ending movies all the time.
    Getting defensive for that sounds a bit hyperbolic here lol.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2020
  20. Harpua

    Harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    What is your reasoning for his opinion? What do you think children will get out of watching tragedies?
     
  21. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

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    Nov 20, 2012
    I guess I can't start looking for houses next summer either, since I have enough for a down payment. All because I have no heirs :(
     
  22. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 27, 2017
    Get used to suffer.
     
  23. Harpua

    Harpua Chosen One star 9

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    Mar 12, 2005
    We touched on this in the besties thread a while back. My parents watched horror movies and films with sexual content at an early age with me. I don't feel that prepared me for adulthood any better than Sesame Street would have. One could even argue, such content led to my later mental illness. I mean, if one is prepared to talk to kids about the tragedies etc they watch, that's one thing, but I was left to process it on my own. Kids aren't yet equipped to process or underatand complex emotions.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2020
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  24. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 27, 2000
    Kids should instead watch Mr. Rodgers where he talked about serious issues in a way kids could understand.
     
  25. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    (For the record, my personal definition of the type of work I think gets favored is something that's banal as opposed to escapist or fantastical, but usually still entirely fictional - a tragedy can exist in either set-up, I just find it tend sot be more worthless to me if it's banal and "realistic" without having a basis in real life where that can be more justified.)

    The sheer amount of times an escapist or comedic film or TV show gets passed over and ignored in award season in favor of some predictably cynical and banal pity party film or show is where my main argument comes in. Whenever an English school curriculum is dominated by Romeo and Juliet, Othello, or Hamlet instead of Shakespeare's comedies, histories, or adventure plays is where my argument comes in. Whenever I had to compete through a combined Drama/Humor Interpretation event in high school and had to have my "I turn into a dog!" comedy compete with a "I backed my car up and knocked my sister's head off!" drama and watched as the finalists were almost uniformly the drama kids even though I'd seen other comedy acts clearly show more range, timing, and skill, is where my argument is.:p

    It's not *that* bad, mind you, and I think it applies unevenly to different media - for instance, as much as "grimdark" comics are often mocked and made fun of in that media, the medium's greater tendency towards escapism also mean that, to me, it weeds out most bad banal and cynical work (because they're rarely able to survive without serious quality there) or in video games (same principle), so the examples that make it through there are stronger.

    Mostly, I kind of think that its more a bias against escapism than anything else - which to me is basically a uselessly self-imposed challenge on the part of critics, because I think it can safely be said that escapism is easier to write and to enjoy as an audience... but that also means that good creators have a much easier time hitting higher heights.

    A good way to summarize it : a George Clooney film of Oscar-bait about some sad rich guy constantly traveling and being flawed ain't worth any kind of praise above something like The Dark Knight, Wizard of Oz, or either of the Guardians of the Galaxy movies... but the fact the Clooney film would be recognized as Oscar-bait having a greater shot at critical praise is bull.

    Notice this, though...
    ...I'm not really arguing for a happy ending mandate, or even against tragedies per se. I'm mostly arguing against banal tragedies set in the "real" world, even if the time scale changes, and for escapism getting some serious respect.

    Revenge of the Sith, for instance, is a tragedy, and the Shakespearean play MacBeth has some strong tragic elements... but both are also much more escapist than those types of films I don't like. ROTS doesn't stack up to MacBeth in quality, mind you, but both are better for kids who should expand their entertainment exposure. Come to think of it, Guardians of the Galaxy 2 is likewise pretty tragic overall, even though the heroes save the day.

    I *do* think that the limits of some tragedies and more cynical work needs to be accepted more, though. I mean, there's a point where many people can just shut off the "empathy for the sake of entertainment" button in their brain if they know that it's just going to be either boring or unpleasant... or both. That's a natural limit that better stories can maneuver around by doing more than trying to beat the audience with the depression hammer.
     
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