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ST J.J. Abrams (Director Of TFA & TROS) Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Pro Scoundrel , Jan 3, 2020.

  1. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    I'm sorry to hear that about Star Trek. I love Discovery and would really like to see Picard!
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2020
  2. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2013
    As a lover of Star Trek I'd say that 'Discovery' is too far removed from the original concept (IMHO)... with some notable exceptions e.g when Captain Pike was introduced and had more screen time/interaction with the characters (some great moment though). And whilst I really liked 'Picard', it being a series spanning single story, seemed too one note and too stretched for its own good. Some really good ideas though...
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2020
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  3. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    On the contrary, I feel that Discovery expands the storytelling universe of Star Trek while upholding its core principles. I'm not sure what you're getting at with Pike improving the show (I loved him too, BTW), but I for one applaud its efforts to actually give us something new. That makes it relevant.

    Unlike the ST, which is just a Rebels vs Empire rematch. JJ, LFL and Disney proved that they actually don't understand what Star Wars is about when they decided that it's about rebelling against tyranny.
    It's like they never even watched Episodes I-III, or listened to a word GL said.

    I know I'm being hyperbolic, that there is a tad bit more to it than that. I even appreciate RJ's intention to mix things up with new character dynamics. It's just that at the end of the day, when I look at the bigger picture, these films don't change anything. There's nothing new. They have no relevance whatsoever.
     
  4. Jedi_Fenrir767

    Jedi_Fenrir767 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2013
    Both Trek and Wars have a lot of great ideas but the execution has been absolutely abysmal. I would say Trek is in a far worse situation than Star Wars is. Both franchises suffer from just poor choices. For example the ST story would have made more sense 100 to 200 years post ROTJ. Discovery should bar been set in the 25th Century and not used Klingons but a new enemy. Very simple decisions and would have vastly improved their storytelling and pick one plot for the first season.

    Much like i loves the ST, I was all in on Picard till episode 5 and everything went grimdark and ultra violent and changed characterizations just because it was cool and didn’t follow up on lots of mysteries the show setup for a bad Video game plot and ending. Also killing characters for shock value. For everything it got right it got two things wrong which reminds me of TLJ. In the end if the day nothing mattered except one plot just like how the force plot was the only thing that mattered. Also leaving out key characters from the show (TNG Cast) (Lando). Especially when those characters brought something back that was very much needed for both franchises.

    What’s interesting is that Abrams has touched both franchises and since then neither of them feel like they used to. It’s like the films were made by someone who only thinks they like the franchise. I would also say the inconsistency on writing and following through on story lines instead of having pointless and unbelievable plots just happen with awful resolutions. That however seems to be par for the course in both Franchises these days however Star Wars is correcting itself on TV while Star Trek is still just marching a long because CBS doesn’t have much of a choice. It’s no surprise that CBS greenlit a Pike era Enterprise show that will be more like classic trek to stop the bleeding and bring back people that have left the franchise. It worked with the Mandalorian so why not Stat Trek.

    I will say i do have a hard time reconciling past Star Wars and Star Trek since Abrams. Clone Wars, Rebels, Rogue One, and the 6 film Saga fit as one cohesive thing and i think it’s because of the work done by Lucas before he left. Everything ST seems so disconnected it’s crazy.

    Everything Star Trek since 2009 feels like science fiction that could be set in any universe and not Star Trek. Both franchises seem to have forgotten what they were about and change and experimentation is great franchises must evolve when you affect the core ideas and values of what came before in a permanent way people tend to just leave and it’s hard to bring in enough new fans to replace those that are lost as both franchises are seeing right now.


    I have to disagree about Discovery the prequel setting, Burnham being almost a superhero, section 31 being an intelligence branch of the federation. It all just felt so off to me. Nothing felt like it connected to Star Trek it feels like a generic sci fi show wearing a Star Trek skin especially being crammed into the 23rd Century. I also used to watch Star Trek with family and we tried to revive that it didn’t last one episode. Captain Georgiou was amazing but she didn’t even last the first episode. Pike brought back that Starfleet Captain aspect that the show was missing. Now Discovery is in 32nd Century and the show runners idea of the burn is stupid and lazy. I get they want a dystopian future but the idea of the burn and that Earth couldn’t have a solar system spanning civilization on impulse is idiotic and not consistent with more just to make the spore drive the thing they need but a few season ago it almost wiped out all life in the universe....

    Not enough care and thought go into making the show consistent and fit into an established universe which is what happened with RJ and many aspect of the ST they told the story they wanted to tell irrespective of previous events the setting and the characters they just crammed everyone into their plot. IMO Discovery is a fine sci-fi show but a poor Star Trek show. That’s why the whole section 31 show starring Michelle Yeoh got essentially scrapped for Strange New Worlds as it was just more grimdark Sci-Fi and sorry the expanse does it better. All of these issues are things that could have been avoided without all the behind the scenes drama just like the ST.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2020
  5. antitoxicgamer

    antitoxicgamer Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 9, 2020
    I think I read somewhere that J J believed that Star Wars is like Dune.(I think he said that Star Wars is about the battles between "house skywalker" and "house Palpatine".)[face_laugh]
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2020
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  6. Jedi_Fenrir767

    Jedi_Fenrir767 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2013
    I think that was Chris Terio. With Villeneuve doing Dune we could get our next great Sci Fi franchise the film looks amazing. The house thing was one of the dumbest things i read but it fits with Terio I mean he did write the whole Martha scene in BvS. He finds these little similarities that fascinate him and contorts whole stories around it.....
     
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  7. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2016
    I like how he says this but hardly takes any inspiration from the PT when he made TFA. You know, the Star Wars trilogy that's actually inspired by Dune as far as the actual writing and narrative scope is concerned.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2020
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  8. dagenspear

    dagenspear Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 9, 2015
    The funny thing about the Martha moment, to me, is that I actually like it in concept, and in the mean behind it that I see. But, I think it begs questions: Batman was about to stab another superhero in the face, because he exists, and that is what snaps him out of it? What does this mean for his character? If Flash destroys a Wayne building in a fight, will Bruce snap again and need the Martha moment to snap him out of it? I think it essentially leans on the idea that Batman is seriously mentally ill. And if that's the case, what are we doing shrugging that off at the end with the, "men are good" line? Even if not, Batman was going to kill another superhero because he exists, and we're not gonna deal with aggressive outside emotional repercussions for that? It's like, to me, the world hating and/or fearing Superman idea. Sure, you do you movie, but I think it really doesn't anything with it. I think it boasts the lofty concept of the world hating Superman and just shrugs it off with, "he died and people like him now". I think TLJ has a similar thing, funny enough. It boasts a lofty concept, but doesn't, to me, do a lot with it, in that way. Bringing it back around to the thread topic, JJ doesn't seem to boast lofty concepts for the movies.
     
  9. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    May 18, 2017
    I don't think the reasoning behind Batman hating Superman was convincing. Yes Wayne Tower was destroyed but just maybe the aliens trying to destroy the entire city were to blame? It just made Batman seem dumb.
    Edit: the fact that Superman would recklessly use his laser vision around populated buildings was also a stretch. I guess trying to create conflict ending up hurting both characters.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2020
  10. antitoxicgamer

    antitoxicgamer Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 9, 2020
    In my opinion that nightmare scene was a better way of making Batman to hate Superman.(Since he saw a realistic vision of the future which Superman serves Darkseide.)

    They should have just expanded that nightmare scene instead of that opening scene of Superman fighting Zod.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2020
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  11. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    May 18, 2017
    And explained the nightmare scene as many casual fans were confused.
     
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  12. dagenspear

    dagenspear Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 9, 2015
    If I get what I think the idea is, Bruce has PTSD from his parents death. And when the destruction of Wayne Enterprizes happens, Bruce's kinda, I guess we're supposed to gather (even though this is never talked about) along with the death of Robin, has a mental break of sorts and essentially is taking all his anger of his losses in life out on Superman. In theory, I like all of that. But not only do I think they take the character too far, without really pushing in on the active consequences of it, and that it's taken care of fairly easily. It's boasts a lofty concept, but ultimately, I think, to me, doesn't want to deal with the active consequences of it, on certain levels.
     
  13. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    May 18, 2017
    Agreed. We discuss this a lot around here. A lot of ideas are good on paper, but in a visual medium you have to sell it to the audience.
     
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  14. ScreamingWoman2019

    ScreamingWoman2019 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2018
    Dune. More context, from Kaminski's The Secret History Of Star Wars:
    By the way, and according to this, midichlorians and kyber crystals are part of the same family as ideas, or manifestations of the same thing; and they could be made to appear as such in future films.

    That's more or less implied in the TFA forceback. Kyber Crystals were first mentioned in RO, and Leia wears her RO/ANH dress as a FG.
    What memory systems? Where's Ben Solo? JJ wrote Regarding Henry after all.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2020
  15. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2012
    It’s interesting to note how JJ Abrams left Star Wars and Star Trek after he departed. Both started with a bang in which he largely rehashed the first SW film and then both films were followed by a nonsensical sequel that was just a bunch of characters running from one action scene to the next. Also, it’s interesting to note that both studios refused to hire him long term and instead replaced him with one of his subordinates - Alex Kurtzman with Trek and Michelle Rejwan with SW. WarnerMedia, a studio that is hemorrhaging money after years of bad decisions, were the ones who agreed to his bloated demands.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2020
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  16. AEHoward33

    AEHoward33 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2019
    I think both franchises are in serious trouble, creativity wise. Star Wars is still stuck in this Original Trilogy mentality, even with productions that I actually enjoyed - like "Rogue One", "Solo" and "The Mandalorian". And the Sequel Trilogy was a disaster to me. I don't even know what to say about Star Trek. I really enjoyed Season One of "Star Trek Discovery". After that . . . I don't know. It was all downhill for me. Pike and Spock unnecessarily hung around during the second season for the sake of the nostalgia factor. And now they're getting their own series that is basically a rehash of "The Original Series". As for "Discovery", it was sent 900 years into the future for . . . what? I still don't understand the show runners' reasoning behind this move. To reaffirm Federation values? I don't know. I managed to somewhat enjoy "Star Trek Picard", but that season finale was pure crap to me. Sloppy writing. And yes, the Trek franchise seemed to be clinging to the nostalgia factor ever since Season One of "Discovery". As for the other sci-fi franchises, I've given up. I just stick to the old stuff, until somewhere, down the road, someone will prove to be another George Lucas or Straczynski.
     
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  17. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    May 18, 2017
    JJ should reboot The Muppets.
     
  18. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2012
    It’s going to be interesting to see what his stewardship of Superman actually looks like. He wrote a god awful Superman script 20 years ago that leaked onto the internet and was eviscerated by the fans.
     
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  19. Jedi_Fenrir767

    Jedi_Fenrir767 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2013
    I couldn't agree more. I think Trek would have been better if Bryan Fuller hadn't been force off the show. I just couldn't get into Discovery largely due to the time period and Aesthetic ironically if it was a post Dominion War series and not about the Klingons it probably would have been good but your right the pre TOS stuff was ridiculous. Sending them 900 years into the future with the whole idea behind the burn and everything about it being monumentally stupid. Dilithium doesn't power the whole universe morons and with the sheer amount of different types of FTL that were around in the late 24th century like the Slipstream drive ugh.... I just can't do it the writing is awful. Why destroy something off Camera just to bring it back (yes that applies to both franchises as well.) Picard was the worst season of television I had the displeasure of watching much like the ST characters were out of character for reasons and after episode 4 the writing got worse and worse and worse. The finale was one of the worst episodes of TV let alone Trek I have ever seen not to mention the whole show turning into the plot of Mass Effect.

    The issue is that both franchises seem scared to just do what their best at and are pushing to experiment and do more or they just cover themselves in nostalgie and expect fans to lap it up like dogs. I just don't know what to say. @AEHoward33 you should check out The Expanse if you want to watch great sci-fi I personally don't like she show mainly because of some casting choices but the books are amazing. Just going to say that Roberta Draper is the character the Captain Phasma wishes she was.
     
  20. FightoftheForgotten

    FightoftheForgotten Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    May 19, 2020
    I still cannot believe that JJ watched BvS: DoJ and was like, "Get me that guy to write Star Wars with."
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2020
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  21. ewoksimon

    ewoksimon Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 26, 2009
    I believe Abrams hired Terrio based on a different project they wanted to collaborate on, which was closer in tone to Argo.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2020
  22. godisawesome

    godisawesome Sequel Trilogy Manager star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    I think Terrio’s style as a writer - that he’s really more a scripter than a storyteller - also made him appeal to a situation where Abrams and LFL were likely already pulling the story in different directions, and where the writer’s job was going to be more “put words down based off the orders we give you” instead of “so where do you think this should go?”
     
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  23. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2012
    Terrio’s last three films have been awful.
     
  24. ewoksimon

    ewoksimon Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 26, 2009
    No doubt the Abrams/Terrio dynamic was likely different and less deferential than Abrams/Kasdan, but I wouldn't relegate Terrio to just being a dutiful scribe. I suspect there's plenty of his voice in there, especially with regards to Palpatine and the dyad.
     
  25. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    May 18, 2017
    There appears to be too much Trek out there
    How many Star Trek shows are there right now?