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Fanclub Jacen Solo Fan Club: Forever in the Light

Discussion in 'EU Community' started by -Vergere-, Oct 14, 2001.

  1. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 9 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    Well the GA paid reparations to Corellia and Kashyyyk, according to Millennium Falcon...

    But,
    Jacen had transformed Coruscant into his version of government; brutal, murderous police state where people vanish, and are executed summarily for crimes of his design. See, Fury and how he handed the Centerpoint spy whose name escapes me, and of course Tebut. Also, Invincible had these delightful hints that Jacen was sending a steady stream of bodies to the morgue, notwithstanding his belief that he was no longer a madman.
     
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  2. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    That aside, Corellia led an insurrection against the government and attempted to use a superweapon to get its way.

    No government, no matter how velvet handed or reasonable can be expected to tolerate that.
     
  3. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 9 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    The issue is that the GA did lose the war to the Jedi Coalition. The Confederation only agrees to a ceasefire after that.

    Neither side was in the right, though by the end the Confederation has lost Centerpoint, Sal-Solo, Gejjen, Koyan, and the assault fleet...
     
  4. Anedon

    Anedon Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 11, 2016
    What I find the sillyest about that whole thing is how the Confeds apparently are pretty eager to get back into, at the very least a close realtionship with the GA by FotJ only like four years later. Really makes Jacen´s actions and eventual death even more pointless.
     
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  5. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 9 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    It’s two years.

    And the Confederation spends those two years getting raided by the Lost Tribe of the Sith... the Seswenna Sector, Corporate Sector and Hutt Space don’t come off very well in those years. I mean, Corellia and Commenor were battered during the war.

    Fondor left as well... Hutt Space may have as well, in the circumstances.
     
  6. Anedon

    Anedon Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 11, 2016
    Well to me that whole just feels like a handwave to explain why in Legacy the GA seems to have reintegrated all of those guys.
     
  7. SiouxFan

    SiouxFan Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 6, 2012
    I only read LotF once as it was being released, and at some point I'm just going to have to re-read. I'm obviously going to have to finally delve into FotJ because none of the above makes any sense. The GA loses the war, and pays reparations to the winning side (Corelia, Kashyyk....others, we can probably assume)....and then Corelia rejoins two years later? What were they rebelling from exactly? The wanted Corelian independence, right? And then decide they don't want it? They won...or at least didn't lose. Before we say that Germany was allowed into the European community after 1945, we have to understand that the Nazis lost. Germany was beaten...and beaten badly.

    LotF had a delightful background theme that nobody is totally right and that we all interpret events to 'fit' into our world-view. But the over-arching political themes fall apart fairly quickly...and you don't even have to delve into the story very far for that to happen. That's just...pathetic and sad.
     
  8. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    The writers didn't bother to establish the details and stopped caring about what they did establish. If not by the end of LOTF, then definitely by FOTJ.

    Anyway, can I just say I find Jacen's motivations, poorly constructed as they are to be so utterly...selfless? He did everything he did, for someone else. For someone so precious to him, he traded his own soul for her future.

    If that isn't sacrificial love, then nothing is.
     
  9. SiouxFan

    SiouxFan Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 6, 2012
    I would agree....but with a caveat. While I do believe that his actions were selfless in general....he still got a lot of people killed. If he wants to sacrifice himself, I'm all for it....but he also sacrificed countless others which is problematic.
     
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  10. Anedon

    Anedon Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 11, 2016
    Don´t really think Caedus was selfless at all. His goal, in the ultimate version of it given is utterly selfish. He wants to protect Allana and is willing to kill everyone who stands in his way of achieving this. Yeah its not for himself but his daughter but still he puts her above everyone else. Would he have done the same if the vision had shown him some random orphaned child he might have distantly known? I doubt it, and even if he had its still selfish to sacrifice so many lives for your desires.
    I mean lets be real here, how many inocent people, many of the children themselves died in the war? Especially in Jacen´s mass orbital bombardments, Jacen did not care for them, he only cared for one child, his own, which is nothing but selfish. Its the same as Anakins just with his daughter instead of wife.

    Now of course characters in SW have always been acting like that, the series is pretty guilty when it comes to "protagonist centered morality", its just that Jacen takes it farther than most other characters and the narrative calls him out for it, when it doesn´t for many others. Makes me kind of wonder if it had been the exact story just Mara instead of Jacen and Ben instead of Allana if people had seen it as much more sympathetic.

    And to defend Jacen here, I think his final action was very selfless, not killing his sister when he had the chance but instead saving a woman who had used and then abandoned him is a very selfless action, it not being honored by anyone save briefly Jaina is just another tragedy regarding Jacen.
     
  11. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    I think it really depends on exactly what you see Jacen’s primary aim was.

    Was it to prepare the way for the reign of Queen Allana? To stop the dark man? Or to prevent Allana from being on his side?

    Or something more general like ensuring galactic peace.

    With regards to the former motivation(Queen Allana) it’s important to note, he’s pointedly not fighting for himself. He’s fighting so his child can achieve what amounts to a sort of messianic destiny.

    (I’ve always seen the visions of Queen Allana as being rather less than simple politics-which I find diminishes her importance, legacy ignored).

    Jacen did what he did in all regards for Allana, for the galaxy, for the children. Not for himself. Not so he could reign, but so someone could bring peace and joy.

    And he sacrificed everything including his soul to do that.

    That to me is the height of selflessness.
     
  12. Anedon

    Anedon Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 11, 2016
    First thing there is zero guarantee anything of this is going to happen, just a few weird visions that could be interpreted differently by various people. And as Legacy shows this messianic rule wouldn´t last, at best all Jacen won where a few decades of relative peace.

    I feel he did it soley for Allanna, for his child, no matter the suffering he caused others. This whole argument of "but Allannas rule would benefit everyone" falls flat due to the above, there is no guarantee and Legacy proves it was a temporary success at best.

    Well in my opinion, it utterly selfish to put your child, your family above anyone else. Especially for just a vague vision. Yes from the all knowing reader standpoint one can say that it might have saved many from an even worse war, but from that perspective we can also say that Jacen´s actions a) lead to the return of Abeloth and b) where largley undone by Legacy anyway, especially with Krayt saying that Caedus was in the end usefull as a distraction for him.
     
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  13. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    So what does everyone think of a Jacen/Alema ship?
     
  14. Anedon

    Anedon Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 11, 2016
    Not sure if there is much basis for it. I mean Alema feels to me as if Denning created her specifically to bring more sexual stuff to the younger generation.
     
  15. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    Eh? Alema and her sister was sexually abused and exploited. You could do a lot(with a sensitive writer) that deals with how she handles the abuse she suffered.
     
  16. Anedon

    Anedon Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 11, 2016
    Denning wasn´t a sensetive writer.
     
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  17. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    I wasn’t referring to Denning? But a fanfic author? Hypothetically speaking. If they wanted to do a Jacen/Alema ship.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2020
  18. Anedon

    Anedon Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 11, 2016
    Well a fanfic author could basically do anything I guess. I was just refering to her creator himself.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2020
  19. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    My point was that one can do a lot with Alema(as a fanfic writer) one just needs to be sensitive to her backstory and characterization.

    A Jacen/Alema ship would be a romance of contrasts. Which is why I find it fascinating from a story perspective.

    I’ve looked for Jacen/Alema fics on the net, and I’ve never found one.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2020
  20. Anedon

    Anedon Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 11, 2016
    I mean I see little in common between them. Alema seems to be intrested in the pysical aspects of love, something Jacen isn´t into at all it seems.
     
  21. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    That’s precisely why I think it’s fascinating to work with. Alema is very sensual and physical, Jacen is the exact opposite. He’s spiritual and more abstract.
     
  22. adalmentia

    adalmentia Jedi Youngling

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    Nov 12, 2020
    Hello

    Jacen has always been my favorite character in the EU, but I admit I completely missed the forum's existence for a long time.
    Can I join the fan club ?
     
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  23. Anedon

    Anedon Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 11, 2016
    Of course you can! :)
    Always great to see another Jacen fan around here.
    What traits of his do you like in particular?
     
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  24. adalmentia

    adalmentia Jedi Youngling

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    Nov 12, 2020
    I particularly like his connection to the Force (I think he could have been a great Yoda-style teacher if Traviss, Denning, and Allston hadn't messed it up with LotF) and his deep empathy
    And as I am currently re-reading YJK, I increasingly relish his adorable attempts to seduce Tenel Ka with his jokes
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2020
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  25. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 9 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
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