PT Jar Jar’s proposal doesn’t make any sense

So, Bail Organa says the senate won’t vote to create an army. He then says they could be swayed if someone introduces a bill to give emergency powers to Palpatine, who can then authorize the creation of an army.

If the senate doesn’t want an army, why would they be okay with giving emergency powers to the chancellor if he’s just going to use them to create an army? It’s the same thing.

 

Since when does Jar-Jar actually make any sense in any scene at all? Don't get me wrong, I love the prequels and JJ never bothered me very much. But allowing him to represent Padmé (and the whole planet Naboo!!!) in such a critical situation was simply stupid. He is clumsy and knows nothing about politics.
Surely Padmé could have found another representative from Naboo to go to Coruscant and vote on her behalf? JJ was OK in TPM as comical relief. But to make him an actual senate member was one of the silliest decisions in the entire PT.
In any case, the army was already ordered a decade before, no matter who this Syfo-Dias actually was. So the main point was not whether to create it but when and how to use it. Sidious definitely knew of the army's existence long before the senate and Jedi council did - for all we know he may have posed as Syfo himself. Who would ever have found out? The Jedi certainly didn't.
All he did was use JJ's naivety and the senate's ignorance to get him those emergency powers to actually put that army into use.
As it turned out he pretty much succeeded in fooling everyone.

 

I think you missed the point of my question. Jar Jar isn’t relevant.

what I’m trying to understand, is why does the senate vote to give Palpatine to bypass them completely and execute a decision they have already decided against?

let’s say 60% of the senate is against an army, 40% in favor. A senator (could be anybody) suggests they give emergency powers to the chancellor so the army can be created. Why would anyone in that 60% majority vote for the emergency powers, knowing that Palpatine will create an army, the very thing to which they are opposed?

 

I'd speculate that after numerous deadlocked votes on other issues, "giving Palpatine emergency powers" is something that's been mooted for quite a while.

With even people worried about policies they dislike being passed, being so frustrated with inaction, feeling that the idea of ending these kind of deadlocks has become quite attractive.

 

Odds are, for such a bill to get passed in the first place, the Republic would already have to be in some serious trouble to begin with. Such as the Republic finding itself on the brink of a galactic civil war with no standing army. Plus it’s likely just one of many powers palpatine would gain if he was granted such powers.

As for the Jar Jar thing, I don’t think any alternative would’ve faired any better in that situation. Primarily because whoever it was most likely would’ve been a Gungun (a species who only recently entered the realm of galactic politics) & they never would’ve stood a chance against a manipulator of Palpatine’s level.

 

Because the Senate had learned of the creation of the Clone Army and the gathering of the Separatists on Geonosis, thanks to the revelation of Obi-Wan's message to the Jedi Council, the Chancellor and members of the Senate.

Why do you assume that all Gungans are naive? Why would you make such an assumption?

 

Apparently, for such a bill to pass in the Senate, the Senate would have to adhere to various lengthy procedures. By granting emergency powers to Palestine, those procedures could be bypassed.

He doesn’t say that. He says the Senate won’t vote to create an army in time.

 

it still doesn’t make sense to me. If they won’t come to an agreement about the clone army in time, then why would they vote to give Palpatine the power to activate the army? It’s the same thing.

 

Again, for an army bill to pass in the Senate, the Senate would have to adhere to various lengthy procedures. Voting for emergency powers (apparently) bypasses those procedures, and is thus quicker. It's almost the exact same way it worked in the Roman republic; in an emergency situation, the Senate could appoint a magistrate to dictator to bypass Senatorial procedures and act more quickly than the Senate ever could.

 

but if you’re in the senate, why would you vote to bypass procedure so that an army that you oppose could be activated? It still amounts to voting against your own interests.

 

They could have easily came up with some bull about the Planets breaking away amassing an Army and if the Senate did not act quickly, its ByeBye Republic..

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You probably wouldn’t. But we can infer that a vote either for or against an army requires more procedure than an emergency power vote. Again, for comparison, that’s more-or-less the way it worked in the Roman Republic, before Caesar.

 

Now that would be interesting in the real world. I doubt Israel would be very happy about that.

 

double post

 

Whoops! Autocorrect. A most unfortunate swipo!

 

Haha, thought so .... just found it kind of funny

 

They were facing a crisis. Half the galaxy was splitting off, they just found out of an army courtesy Obi-Wan. To the average senator, war IS coming and they need someone to act now. They don’t have time to deliberate for months on end while the Seperatists presumably amass an army of their own to attack.

Hence the Emergency Powers. It would allow Palpatine to make choices immediately without needing the gridlocked Senate hemming and hawing until the end death of the universe. It only really started being an issue when it became clear Palpatine wasn’t gonna give up his powers and return it to the Senate. Much like how Caesar attempted (which got him stabbed to death, but it was too little too late.)

 

Jar Jar was weak minded and able to be manipulated the comment "If only Senator Amidala were here.."

It was my understanding from Obi Wan's convo with Dooku "Hundreds of senators are now under the influence of a Sith lord called Darth Sidious" that Palps pretty much had control of the senate members and ensured he'd get the results he wanted.

 

Sorry if I sound stubborn, but I still don’t see the logic.

Let’s say I’m a senator, and I’m already against the idea of creating a military. The Jedi inform the senate that a clone army has been created for the republic, and that an attack by separatists is imminent. I can react to this in two ways. I can stick to my ideals and vote no on the use of the army, even in the face of an attack. Or I can change my vote in light of the fact that the republic is about to be attacked.

We know that the revelation of the army didn’t change much, as Organa says the senate will not approve the army in time. So we can assume most of the senators who were against the creation of a military are still opposed to the clone army, even in light of all the new information. Then Jar Jar suggests the emergency powers. If I’m a senator who has already decided he’s against using the clones, why would the idea of emergency powers and bypassing the senate, essentially taking away my voice in the debate, be appealing to me? If I heard that proposed in the senate, I’d vote against it. But in the movie, the opposite happens. Enough of the anti-army senators suddenly change their minds, allowing the passage of the emergency powers amendment, even though it’s a lose/lose for them.

If the imminent crisis is enough to sway their votes, then there’s no need for the emergency powers. If the imminent crisis is not enough to change their votes (this is what the film tells us), then logically the emergency powers bill should have been dead on arrival.

 

The Senate probably works differently in the SW Universe

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Amidala being an anti-army Senator, and Jar Jar being her proxy, is portrayed as a "mind-changing factor" in the novelization of AOTC at least:



“Unfortunately, the debate is not over,” Bail Organa said. “The Senate will never approve the use of the army before the separatists attack. And by then, it will likely be too late.”
“This is a crisis,” Mas Amedda dared interject. “The Senate must vote the Chancellor emergency powers! He could then approve the use of the clones.”
Palpatine rocked back at the suggestion, seeming profoundly shaken. “But what Senator would have the courage to propose such a radical amendment?” he asked hesitantly.
“I will!” Ask Aak declared.
Beside him, Bail Organa gave a helpless chuckle and shook his head. “They will not listen to you, I fear. Nor to me,” he added quickly, when Ask Aak snapped a glare at him. “We have spent too much of our political capital debating the philosophies of the separatists and arguing for action. The Senate will not see our call as anything more than overly alarmist. We need a voice of reason, one willing to reverse position, even, given the gravity of the current situation.”
“If only Senator Amidala was here,” Mas Amedda reasoned.
Without hesitation, Jar Jar Binks stepped forward again. “Mesa mosto Supreme Chancellor,” the Gungan said, squaring his sloping shoulders as much as possible. “Mesa gusto pallos,” he said deferentially to all the others. “Mesa proud to proposing the motion to give Yousa Honor emergency powers.”
Palpatine looked from the trembling Gungan to Bail Organa. “He speaks for Amidala,” the Senator from Alderaan said. “By all understanding within the Senate, Jar Jar Binks’s words are a reflection of Senator Amidala’s desires.”

 

It’s not that they are naive per sey, just the odds were stacked against them from the beginning regardless of which one happened to be ambassador at the time. Plus, with the invasion of Naboo being only a decade ago, it’d likely be child’s play for a manipulator of Palpatine’s caliber to make them do exactly what Jar Jar did.

 

Because George Lucas wrote this script, in a hurry, on the back of a cocktail napkin. It doesn't make any sense. He tried to paint the fall of Rome in broad enough strokes for a child to understand and it all comes across contrived at its best and nonsensical at its worst. Your example falls into the latter category.

What SHOULD have been established is why the senators are either FOR or AGAINST the idea of a standing army placed at the Federal level of government. For instance... Senators FOR the army want military leadership placed at the federal level as opposed to the planetary level. Their rational is that it's easier to make war plans from Coruscant.

Senators AGAINST the army want to maintain their own planetary defense forces instead of all the individual planetary armies (like the defense forces of Naboo) being moved around as the leaders on Coruscant see fit. Imagine Ryloth having 75% of their forces moved to the Outer-Rim and then a week later, while their army is gone, they get invaded.

Then, suddenly, a solution is dropped in their laps. Palpatine and the Jedi have discovered an army. Now those FOR the army get leadership on Coruscant and those AGAINST the army don't have to worry about their planetary armies getting moved off-world. ...but there's a catch. This mysterious army has unknown origins and could lead to public outcry. So, Palpatine offers a solution to all the politicians. Palpatine suggests that the senate vote to grant himself Emergency Powers during the conflict. He will take the brunt of the accountability and the criticism that goes along with putting the mysterious army to use so that none of them need sacrifice their political careers.

BOOM! It all makes sense.

 

As @Iron_lord said the movie imply that is the involvement of Amidala's change of position on the army, through the act of Jar Jar, that change the mind of the majority of the senators on the necessity for the Republic to legitimate a military force against the separatists and so basically declaring the war despite any possibile negotiate.

Palpatine needed Padmé far from the senate mainly for this reason. After the failed attempts to her life, he pay a such card. After all what was important for this matter wasn't necessarily the woman's life, but rather her political role. If it can be neutralized in a way or another, then it's no more needed to kill her.

It's not a case that when Padmé is making the preparatives for the travel, she laments with Anakin this imposed forcing to leave her one year debating in senate around the most important time for it, when is enough a false step and the war could be ready to begin.

Even if in different ways from what she was expecting, she ends to be right about the consequences of her being away.

 

I think the two big ones have been covered.
A desire to end deadlock and make legislating easier is one aspect of it, and one that certainly echoes into real world politics as well as nobody likes gridlock.
There is also the Chommell sector switching sides in the debate, which likely influenced many otherwise reluctant senators to support the measure.

Lastly I would note that Palpatine has been carefully crafting his image as a non-partisan in the debate. His very first line in the movie is him saying he wants to delay the vote but can't do it much longer with so many systems leaving. Every power he secures for himself he does so "reluctantly", and makes no indication he actually wants an army. Which makes it a bit easier to see some members of the Anti-Military faction being willing to defer to him on this matter.

In their eyes it may have seemed less drastic to offer the popular chancellor who seems to have some sympathy for their cause the final say on the issue, rather then going through with the vote and likely coming to a conclusion that would have even been less desirable to them.