TV Discussion The Jedi: Their Roles and Philosophies in Star Wars TV

I just don’t think you have the journey be about finding a Jedi and not find a Jedi

 

I personally like the idea some have been sharing that, if Grogu is to be trained, it's by a Jedi we've never met before. That would be interesting and be consistent with the show's attempt to balance what we know with what we don't know.

As for Luke, I think there are problems with using him, and some of these are based on my own subjective evaluations while others are objective problems.

First, an objective problem is that, according to the EU, Luke doesn't feel ready to train Jedi right now, and this is why he's looking for Jedi texts -- to become someone who could train well. Supposedly after training Leia, he understood he had weaknesses that needed to be addressed and didn't train another student until Ben after about 10 years of research and study.

So while the writers could retcon what's currently established, they'd have to decide to change Luke's motivations during this period, and that might feel inconsistent with the notion of him "learning" to be a good teacher. Would they risk that inconsistency? Possibly. Not many people have read about what Luke is supposed to be doing at this time, so maybe they'd think it wouldn't matter.

But another problem still stands in the way: they wouldn't be willing to have Grogu spend years with Luke during this period -- that really would contradict the idea that Ben is his first student after Leia -- which is what it would take, and any "minimal" training for a week or two would be more style over substance. I would find that unsatisfying, and sort of undermining the whole point of bringing Luke in. I felt the same about his brief training of Rey in TLJ.

A second problem with bringing Luke in is more subjective, I think. I was a fan of the previous version of Luke who existed prior to The Last Jedi and ST. That Luke was someone who really grew and progressed at the end of ROTJ; he had learned how to overcome anger and hate, laying his saber down before the Emperor, and had changed his father's heart in this peaceful action. However, The Last Jedi tells us that Luke didn't really grow and change, that he couldn't control his anger and hate, that he wasn't truly a Jedi Master, and this led to his failure with Ben and the destruction of his Jedi Order. I'm not a fan of this Luke, and I don't really want such a flawed teacher instructing Grogu because it could very well lead to disaster. Not to mention the Luke of this period isn't yet settled on his teaching methods -- also not good for a student. In a nutshell, this objection to Luke can be summarized as: Luke's nothing to be excited about anymore. If Grogu is to be trained, it should be by an authentic Jedi Master who will help him overcome the darkside, and we all know this new version of Luke is not that Jedi.

Now I think I would be for an appearance from Luke, and maybe even a regular presence of the character. But the reason for this would be to establish that Luke is still impulsive and brash -- even a bit egotistic due to his "reputation" as a big hero -- and to show the audience hints of his failure in the future, and that perhaps he mistakes Jedi knowledge of texts as mastery when it's really more about peace and selflessness and less about egotistic heroism. So Luke could show up to save the day, perhaps, for Din and Grogu, but in doing this we see some of the weaknesses in his character that weren't actually settled in ROTJ. Now THAT Luke would be interesting to watch, and I would even support a TV show for Luke that explores this egotism; a flawed Luke is perfectly fine as long as they commit to that characterization and establish it sufficiently. My own personal choice would have been a pacifist wise Luke after ROTJ, but this more impulsive, egotistic Luke would be just as interesting. And yet, not a great teacher for Grogu.

Other issues with bringing Luke in would mostly be technical. For example, who plays him and how do they pull it off. I'd prefer recasting Luke as opposed to doing the tech de-aging thing. I like the Sebastian Stan casting idea because he would bring a physicality to Luke that Hamill has never had that could emphasize his egotism, anger, and impulsivity, focusing on the physical aspect of being a Jedi, and how that aggression foreshadows his future.

 

I find the idea of Luke post-ROTJ generally deflating, but I think in the context of this story I'd rather see him than not. It's weird for him to be just totally unacknowledged. Ultimately he can just say that he doesn't feel ready to train Grogu, but Mando can hit him up when he starts Luke's Academy for Young Jedi Knights(TM).

I wonder what the endgame generally for Grogu and the Jedi training plot is going to be. Ahsoka doesn't want to train him, Luke is unlikely to train him given the plot constraints of other media. Even if he does find a master, it seems unlikely that we'll see him reach maturity or even adolescence in this show considering how slowly his species develops. There'd have to be a big time jump at some point which could probably only really be done as an epilogue.

 

I think the endpoint is to go in a new direction. Grogu will become a Force user, but his status will be more like Ezra and Ahsoka. I also think he'll synthesize Jedi teachings with Mandalorian.

I think the show more directly wants to explore whether attachments are good or bad for Force users, and how they can be made to be healthy and functional.

 

Two things, one is kinda minor, the other has huge implications.

1) i’m not sure that it matters who if any jedi respond to Grogu.
I don't think he will have the chance to reach out, as moff gideon will kidnap him after the darksaber beskar staff duel. Or/and, it could also be that Grogu decides to stay w/ Din.
So limited jedi contact. Even though I prefer it be Anakin, both as a fan and because it explains him not showing up as a force ghost ( protecting, hiding & nuturing Grogu ).

The second and very important thing that hadny (to my knowledge) is . . . does Darth Sidious know of his existence.
2b) is it at the behest of Sodious that Godeon is after Grogu, perhaps to harvest midichloins (sp) for Snokes clones ?

 

'Snoke' is a clone though, created by the Sith Eternal and placed in charge of the First Order. You have to ask yourself where the progenitor came from though, and how the Sith Eternal got hold of him. Seems to me that Pershing is working towards creating a midichlorian enriched being which could mean that he is working for the Sith Eternal. He needs a subject/donor that has a high midichlorian count, what if the 'Jedi' that answers Grogu's call is the original 'Snoke'? Gideon/Pershing/The Sith Eternal end up using him instead of Grogu as the template/donor for Puppet Snoke.

 

Nobody ever once said that Snoke was cloned. It's more likely he was synthetically engineered, a strandcast as Kuilil gave exposition to. There's no evidence of a prime Snoke out there. Could it happen? Maybe.

 

Tbh the whole thing with Snoke is really complicated. at one time it was said Snoke was a failed Palpatine clone, which goes along with the whole Reys father being a Palpatine clone too. but now Snoke is not a Palpatine Clone but is genetically created presumbaly.

 

Was Snoke ever actually stated to be a Palpatine clone? Both TFA and TLJ seemed to imply that he was his own character his own history, until TRoS released and all of a sudden he was changed into a being grown as a puppet for a resurrected Palpatine, who had apparently just been chilling in his Sith football stadium since the end of RotJ.

 

Snoke sucks even more than Snoke theories.

 

I think Snoke as a clone that the remnants of the empire doing works. and that's it.

 

Which is why I was so fully behind Johnson's choice to just chop him in half and use him as a foil for Kylo's progression.

Just a shame that TRoS rendered all of that utterly useless in the end.

 

Rather then jedi could other foece cults or sects come and seek Grogu. maybe nightsisters.

 

No I think it will be a Jedi

 

yeah most likley but with the magistrate might be a nightsister made me think.

 

There are some interesting parallels between the Jedi dogma and those of Din's sect of Mandalorians that could push Grogu in this direction.

In terms of source material for going forward, I like the Fallen Order story line the best. Cere Junda is an actual existing Jedi Master that's shown an interested in rebuilding the order but her life experiences lend for an easy transition to something new. I think it would be pretty easy to write around Luke's school and something she was doing simultaneously. Luke being more the traditionalist thinking he could rebuild the order with a new twist whereas Junda opting for something different altogether. She was already searching for force sensitive beings in the game so having her be the one to respond to Grogu reaching out makes a lot of sense.

 

So, I am loving The Mandalorian, naturally. The last episode "The Jedi" was a highpoint for many reasons. That said....

While, I would not go as far as to say that the existence of other Jedi/Force users completely undermines what we were told/shown in the OT, it certainly alters the OT and our understanding of it.

Instead Luke truly being a new hope, and the one Yoda and Obi-Wan were waiting for in some sort of "master plan" scenario, Luke being "the Last Jedi" is more of a technicality than an actual urgent narrative point.

I mean, why didn't Ahsoka and others get more involved in the fight against The Empire and Vader? You are telling me that Yoda and Obi-Wan had no way to contact/persuade/convince these other Force Users to train/assist/take up arms against The Forces of evil?

Furthermore, it seems like Yoda and Obi-Wan waiting for 2 decades for Luke/Leia to mature is the most inconvenient/least strategic of plans. It makes sense if these twins are truly your only hope, less so when you consider that there are about 3 to 4 other more qualified Force users that you could turn to.

I feel like the fact that there are so many other Jedi/Force users around during this era makes this series feel disconnected from the OT. Even though The Mandalorian tonally looks/sound/feels like the OT, the show seems much more connected with The Clone Wars (and thus the PT). At this point, the OT films almost seem like another (separate) timeline. Kind of how Netflix's Marvel shows didn't really tie into the MCU films despite being in the same universe.

Again, this is just my own nerdy/over analytical gripe. I am truly happy to have this much quality Star Wars content and I feel like we are truly living in a golden age of Star Wars fandom.

 

I'd make the argument that there being a handful of other Jedi during the time of the OT doesn't change it all that much, when you consider that it was Luke's very unique relationship with Vader that saved the day, and that is not something that any other character could have replicated (except, perhaps, for Leia - but that is a thread baked right into the OT itself).

So sure, Ahsoka exists during that timespan, but Rebels already doubled down on the fact that she was powerless to defeat or save Vader on Malachor. Only Vader's own child had it in him to do that.

 

Also we have known that other Jedi survived the OT since Rebels

 

I think it's more like Luke could get close to Vader to kill him or redeem him. Ahsoka never got close. There's could be 100 jedi and Luke would still be there only hope.

 

But not the only hope for the Jedi to survive Yoda's death. What little Yoda and Obi-Wan was able to teach Luke over a matter of days/weeks isn't all that vital to pass on if Ahsoka is just one of a hundred Jedi with decades of training in the Jedi ways behind them that survive the Empire.

 

He is only hope of taking on the leadership of the empire. But also in a way to restart the jedi order, as he's the new generation.

 

He's human tho, not that longlived. If there are a hundred Jedi I imagine many if not most would outlive him and be able to continue teaching after him.

 

Ahsoka, going off of her portrayal in The Mandalorian, seems very reluctant to pass on her knowledge. I don't think she is going to be out there starting up a Jedi Academy any time soon. Ezra is off who knows where, and how he factors in has yet to be seen. Obi-Wan and Yoda likely have no idea that he survived past the ending of Rebels, since he seems to be entirely cut off from the Force right now. We know that Ahsoka still can't see him with the Force, post-RotJ.

Other than Ahsoka (who won't train anyone), Ezra (who is missing), Grogu (who is a baby), Luke, and Leia, who else is actually left at this point? I guess Ben Solo and some other future students of Luke's would have already been born, but they are the next generation. I can't think of anyone else.

 

There are plenty of Jedi who know survived order 66 but the last we saw of them was decades ago. Quinlan Vos, Cal Kestis, Cere etc