TV Discussion The Jedi: Their Roles and Philosophies in Star Wars TV

Do we know that Vos survived Order 66? I am admittedly only familiar with the films and television shows (and Dark Disciple/Son of Dathomir, but those are really just an extension of TCW).

But yeah, like you said, all of those were decades ago and we have no idea if any of them are still around as of the Original Trilogy/The Mandalorian.

 

Yep in a comic there is a list of Jedi that the empire knows lived through order 66 and Vos appears on the list.

 

The vader comics has Vos as aorder 66 survivor. I think plenty of jedi survived order 66, but how many lived past Darth Vader and his Inqusitors. Also i think once Ahsoka is done with Thrawn and renited with Ezra, i can see join with Ezra and start training new jedi and force ghost Anakin and ghost Kenobi renite with her. I think Cal Kestis along with the nightsister Merrin got together and trained new force senstives.

 

I don’t think Ezra or Ashoka, or any other person besides Luke, should train new Jedi in the New republic era.

Luke in this era is meant to be the last hope of “pass on what you have learned” and create new Jedi.

It also takes away from the theme of the ST era if say Grogru was trained not by Luke (or future Rey). With all of Luke’s students dying (except Ben Solo), Luke became the last hope again for the Jedi to return, then passes that mission to Rey.

I don’t want new stories revealed that more then 1 faction of Jedi came about in the New Republic era, and avoided being destroyed like Luke’s Academy was.

The content that we continue to get in this gap period, should still respect the opening of TFA, with Luke being the last Jedi left. Perhaps middle aged Ezra could still be alive by then living far away from First Order vs Resistsnce conflict, but if he is still a Jedi, and training new Jedi, it contradicts a whole lot of what was seen and stated in the ST era.

 

I think some small retcons works fine like Filoni did with the PT and OT, so he can do with the ST, just have Ezra and Ahsoka trainone student as a force user like Jacen Syndulla.

 

He wouldn’t be that old 54

 

You have to wonder if Ezra even identifies as a Jedi after he saved Lothal. Yoda acknowledged him as a Padawan, but never a Jedi Knight. And Obi Wan reaffirmed Ezra's path so that he would return to the Rebellion and work towards the liberation of his people. His path never really was to become a Knight of the Jedi Order and defeat the Sith, but to train in the force so that he could save his planet.That was his primary reason for becoming a Jedi, to become strong enough to help his people, and he accomplished that. So he might choose to never take up that mantle again, having accomplished his mission. But that doesn't mean he doesn't appear again or never uses the force again. He'll probably find a new purpose, one that might keep him away from the events of The Mandalorian and the Film Saga.

 

I think it's perfeclty fine to have jedi besides Luke even in the ST but they far between each other.

 

Ya....no.

If feels like if they did that, it’s basicaly a “I have my cake and eat it to” situation.

I’m not a fan of making Luke the last Jedi again in TFA, but since they chose that path, they need to make sure the road leading to that, doesn’t contradict it.

Luke needs to be kept, at least before Rey becomes a Jedi, as the only hope for the return of the Jedi. It contradicts the TFA crawl, contradicts “The Last Jedi”, if you add other Jedi moving around the galaxy that the First Order nor Resistance do not know about.

If you want a bunch of new Jedi characters not associated with Luke, there is always the High Republic.

 

i was so sure Ezra would die at end of Rebels.. i hope he is in a star wars version of the Grey havens and that is where Ashoka meets him again after Thrawn has escaped the space whales .. far far far away

 

I have gone from not knowing Oppo Rancisis was still alive to maybe kinda wanting him to be the Jedi that answers the call, just to watch everyone lose their **** over his character design.

 

After thinking about it, I suppose I'm also in the camp of thinking, if they do go with a Jedi, they probably won't go with any kind of "formal" or traditional Jedi training.

And thinking about the "many masters": is that due to Grogu's species being long-lived, a special ability that he may have, or simply because he hasn't come of "age" yet? Most likely the latter. He's not a Padawan yet because he's not "old enough" for his species.

Or maybe he was on the verge of being ready to be a Padawan learner, or just beginning, and perhaps it was his master that hid him?

All the more reason for a new Jedi character, and one of the "there aren't many Jedi left" Jedi. This Jedi may have been searching for Grogu all along, and if Grogu reaches out to the Force, this is the way his master may finally find him. And I suppose this Jedi would have to be a long-lived species as well. Because what would be the point of starting Grogu's training if he's going to outlive you. I don't believe there's a name for Maz Kanata's species, but someone of her kind would fit.

They would most likely create a new long-lived species though, because I don't think you can do a Maz Kanata species on a weekly television schedule. Of course, Ahsoka would fit the long-lived species too (live to 200 if keenly attuned to the Force), but it doesn't look as though they want to go that route.

Ultimately though, they may want to establish a path that's different than the more traditional way that Luke will go about it.

Also, fear being brought up. If Grogu doesn't reach out to the Force, does that mean he's afraid?

Moff Gideon is supposedly going to have a face to face with Grogu. Perhaps we'll learn something in that?

 

My concern with Grogu is that he's going to paint them into many narrative corners. I love the character right now and the puppet is perfect. ...and also the fact that he can't talk is perfect. But at some point he's going to have to have agency and be other than a 'carry-around' little guy that looks cute. If he becomes more mobile the puppet won't work any more. If he grows up enough to talk, that will be really tricky. ...and then where is he throughout the whole ST?

I'm thinking if Grogu finds a force master to go with it will be in the last episode of The Mandalorian and the last we'll see of him is in his baby state we currently see him in. Then maybe years from now when the uncanny valley has been conquered they can do another series with him as the lead.

 

Going to... I think he already has.

It's going to be interesting to see how they get out of this one.

 

This whole topic is an example of why I have little interest in this period the moment I saw TFA and care more about what happens after Ep IX.

It’s hard to care about whatever Jedi (or anything regarding the New Republic) show up here if they’re doomed by death via offscreen Order 66 (or in NR’s case annihilated by Death Star #3).

And yes I was aware of this with PT/CW the difference is that I was optimistic that the Jedi would be be prominent after the defeat of the empire thanks to the ST(mainly TFA) that optimism was replaced with apathetic uncertainty. At least with High Republic, the Jedi Order of that timeframe have the benefit of not sharing the same obituary entry: death by mass homicide. And I hope that’s the case for if/when we get post IX material.

 

Thanks for bringing up the word faction. I've been looking for the right word to describe what I am for. Faction is one of the ways we get around the overly restrictive idea that only Luke and Rey are important Jedi figures.

Ahsoka, as Filoni notes, is a better Jedi than those who call themselves so. Even if she doesn't think of herself as a Jedi or a Bendu or a member of a Jedi faction, she exists, and actions speak louder than labels.

I don't really understand the importance of maintaining this rigid idea of one Jedi. It's really the most boring and overused idea in SW. It's much more fun to have a small group of Jedi, loosely connected or disconnected. And as I have pointed out in other posts, Luke's not as special as he once was. He's still a bright figure, but in fact one of his only truly special qualities is his blood, his last name, and connection to Anakin. He didn't even really defeat Palpatine in ROTJ because Palpatine survived and so did the Empire and Sith Eternal. His status in the new canon is not anything like it was before the ST and Legends. So why we must continue to demand he be the "only" Jedi in this period is head scratching, and owes more to our past perceptions of him, which no longer apply.

So yes, factions of Jedi. I really like this concept. It allows us to have Jedi during this period who focus on conflicts and enemies Luke doesn't. It's a big galaxy and I think we can have this larger narrative to enjoy.

If we were to ask Luke or Yoda, are these others "official" Jedi, they could say no if they wanted to, but they would also likely accept them as valid factions, as valid individual heroes who function similar to Jedi.

And no, I don't agree Grogu paints us into a narrative corner. That corner only exists if you think Grogu must be a traditional Jedi. However, if you believe like I do that he will become a synthesis of Jedi and Mando beliefs, then we have miles and miles of open space to travel.

Factions of Jedi, yes! Why wouldn't we want to have a cake and eat it too? I'm no ascetic, give me the cake!

 

The narrative corner I'm talking about is the fact that he's a puppet. He works as a puppet only so long as he's also a baby. Because he's a puppet (and hopefully not ever fully CGI) he cannot be a primary character right now, and they're very limited about what nuance they can give him.

As far as the factions of Jedi go, I'm all on board with that. I never liked the idea that there were thousands of Jedi in the PT or that they all followed the dogma of 'the jedi code'. I thought that was one of many aspects of Lucas' losing the mystery and romance of the idea. He turned the Jedi into a orthodoxy that held to toxic dogma (child separations, etc). I'd prefer 'Jedi' to just be a term for 'a Force user who does good works' without any rules other than the golden rule. In the ashes of the former Jedi Order, with fewer than 10 of them left, Ahsoka is as much a Jedi as anyone is.

 

I'm feeling like it will be Quinlan Vos. We know he survived Order 66 and Filoni has worked with him before in TCW.

And he fits in well with the underworld side of Star Wars that The Mando explores.

 

I guess if we get any Jason Momoa rumors for season three then we'll know what that's about.

Just thinking in general, we had Obi-Wan, a Jedi, deliver a Force child to non-Jedi. It would be a neat reversal to have Din Djarin, a non-Jedi, deliver a Force child to a Jedi.

Another thought, if they had Moff Gideon or someone destroy the seeing stone, or take Grogu before he gets to it and then destroy the seeing stone, then I guess the show can forever be about finding the Jedi. Hopefully they don't do that. Just resolve it one way or the other, and preferably by the end of this season.

We had the Darksaber reveal to close last season, give us a lightsaber reveal or something like that for this season finale.

Or going with Quinlan Vos, give us a silhouette of a dreaded figure; a Bob Marley "Dreadlock Rasta" Jedi. Livity, and the Almighty Jah. Quinlan Vos would actually be kind of cool.

 

This is only tangentially related to the topic of the thread, but how would you guys feel about The Mandolorian taking place in an alternate continuity to the ST? That way, the showrunners aren't boxed in with regards to the question of the status of Jedi in the Star Wars universe, i.e., they don't have to worry about Luke's students all getting massacred and him and Rey being the only ones alive by a certain point in the timeline, and they can have as many as they want without breaking the lore.

 

I'd love an alternate continuity, but I don't see LFL doing one. And I agree with Todd the Jedi that this 20 year gap gives enough freedom for TV and this show to do their own thing.

One of the easiest ways to deal with the ST plot is to keep cultivating this idea of different kinds of Force users, like Ahsoka, and even different factions of Jedi.

Luke's order, the Skywalker Order, only needs to be one tradition in the GFFA. So when Yoda refers to him as the "last," Ahsoka's existence doesn't contradict that.

These other orders or factions can be busy facing other problems that Luke's not tuned in with. And if they decide to explore Luke in these years, they can begin to explore this different version that Rian Johnson established, showing that he never really overcame fear and anger in ROTJ.

So there are legit ways to still make this period interesting, to save it from the black hole it could be.

 

Multiple factions of Jedi in the new Republic era is a bad idea, and devalues from the destruction of Luke’s Academy and the themes of the ST, Luke being the last Jedi then Reys “I am all the Jedi”.

By having Jedi running around during the ST era that are not from Luke’s Academy really does not mesh with the ST films we were
given.

I prefer a Luke where he is the only one of the NR era passing on Jedi teaching.

Several factions of Jedi are not a bad idea really, but the New Republic era is a poor period to put that in.

I wouldn’t mind seeing a few factions pop up in the very distant past of the Old Republic (or even Pre) era where more diversity of belief was allowed amongst Jedi.

Or if we get a Legacy era post ST. Rey brought back the Jedi very slowly.....but there was an eventual split. Not one that led to a dark Jedi faction, but Jedi with some differences in beliefs, but still consider themselves Jedi.

 

@StarWarsFan91

It can mesh just fine if we don't believe every Force user is a Jedi. And why would we? Why does it matter if Force users are doing interesting things in this period?

That's certainly superior to Luke doing nothing for 10 years as he researches Jedi texts, and then has his order destroyed.

Before the ST, fans were able to enjoy stories about the Jedi in the post-ROTJ period, but you don't want fans to experience fun things like Ahsoka in the Mandalorian, just because you require some special treatment for a character who has lost quite a bit of status due to the ST.

It would be different if Luke were doing some cool things 15 years after ROTJ, but he's not.

EDIT: A good real world analogy would be the many different, almost endless amount, of Christian sects. If Yoda were a Catholic, he could easily say to Luke, last of us will you be, if the rest of Christianity were protestants, etc. Rey represents just one dominant tradition of Jedi in SW. Certainly Ahsoka's existence already contradicts the things we've heard characters say in the movies. And that's OK, because those things we've heard are from characters, and they are not the same as omniscient narrators.

 

First off, I’m not against Ashoka being in the Mandalroian. Sure I would take issue with her if she is still alive during the ST era, but I’m not against her showing up during th Mandalorian.

And second, why do you think Luke was doing nothing cool until Jedi Purge 2.0?

We have almost no stories (his appearance in BF2 campaign was well received) of him during the 10 yr gap between RoTJ and him beginning to train Ben Solo. But well done stories could be made of Luke. Searching further for Jedi lore, and helping out people while doing so. Like a Wild West wanderer traveling around the frontier.

He could also do awesome things during his Academy days. We already have him preventing the Knights of Ren from taking over a High Republic era Jedi outpost. I wonder how he came across the 11 other students. Were any in need of rescuing?

So even though his order ends in tragedy, I wouldn’t give up on Luke never having cool stories given to him post RoTJ.