PT Jedi Order was consumed by the dark side

So,we finally get officially told,by Yoda,that Jedi Order was consumed by the dark side,when fighting for the Republic,against separatists.
Yes,it is told in "Star wars rebels",but I think this is what Lucas intended to say,from when he made "Attack of the clones".

 

I dont think they were consumed by the dark side. They were more tricked into helping the dark side rise to power. When they fought with the Clones, they had no clue it would lead to their downfall and to the uprising of the Sith's rule over the galaxy.

 

Palpatine destroyed their ideals.

 

Does Lucas even have anything to do with the Star Wars universe anymore, let alone what happens on Rebels? I genuinely don't know and I'd like to clear that up.

If he doesn't have anything to do with the universe anymore, then how can we be sure this is what he intended even if it is part of the new Disney Star Wars canon?

 

It's more likely that the Rebels' writing team made a mistake. Remember, unlike TCW, GL isn't a part of this new show in any way, shape or form.

I would assume that what Yoda was trying to say is that the Jedi Order was clouded by the dark side, not consumed. Yoda can make mistakes too.

-Darth Plagueis

 

in the tcw yoda arc, which was created by gl, yoda sees the dark side in himself and the jedi and that participating in the wars is a part of that. what yoda says in rebels goes along with that. the jedi weren't evil but fighting in the wars was a part of the dark side.

in the latest rebels ep, yoda doesn't say the jedi were consumed by the dark side but that they arrogantly took part in the wars and were consumed by fear and anger which led to their defeat by the dark side.

 

I think Yoda, in Rebels, more or less suggested the Jedi lost their way and allowed themselves to be controlled by fear and aggression - not necessarily taken over by the dark side.

 

Well, during the Clone Wars, the Jedi Order was taking direction from the Supreme Chancellor. Who was the Dark Lord of the Sith. So the Jedi were effectively fighting for the Dark Side, from a certain point of view. Barriss Offee gets it right in her rant to the court in The Wrong Jedi.

"The Jedi are responsible for this war. That we are the ones who should be put on trial, all of us. And my attack on the Temple was an attack on what the Jedi have become. An army fighting for the Dark Side.Fallen from the light we once held so dear."

 

He has nothing to do with it. Tossed his ideas for episode 7.

Curious myself as to what was kept. The art book will be telling based on what artists are behind what.

 

I don't see a difference between clouded and consumed, in this case.

I don't think that Yoda was implying that the Jedi were willingly drawing from the Dark Side of the Force, but that, as DanielUK suggested, the Jedi were giving into their growing fear. They became more and more aggressive out of desperation to find the Sith and end the war that they became blind to Palpatine's whole plot.

 

I like that explanation, but is it what Yoda actually says verbatim or is that your interpretation of it? I don't know since I haven't watched the show yet.

 

I guess this Yoda statement was from a recent second season episode?

Yes, the Jedi order was consumed by the dark side, but previously I would have said that was a figure of speech, considering how many died during the conflict...

Otherwise "consumed by the dark side" should read like this:

YODA Run! Yes. A Jedi's strength
flows from the Force. But beware
of the dark side. Anger... fear...
aggression. The dark side of
the Force are they.
Easily they flow, quick to join
you in a fight. If once you
start down the dark path, forever
will it dominate your destiny,
consume you it will, as it did
Obi-Wan's apprentice.

LUKE Vader. Is the dark side stronger?

YODA No... no... no. Quicker, easier,
more seductive.

So, were the Jedi in the PT (a) angered, (b) afraid and (c) aggressive?

Watching TCW and Obi-Wan's and Anakin's stunts, I can only see these were rather the opposite: light-hearted, unafraid and defensive.

Maybe at times too cocky, but this isn't a bad thing? (or did actually Solo tell Luke the most important lesson by accident in ANH: "Don't get cocky")

EDIT:

Darn, this seems to be real: http://boards.theforce.net/threads/whats-yodas-revisionist-view-on-tcws.50039238/

 

No, it isn't. What Lucas intended to say is what's in the movies. And in the movies, the Jedi weren't consumed by the dark side.

In the Yoda arc, he acknowledges the dark side as part of him (which was already implied from the very beginning since the Force is in every being and thus both sides are part of every life form) and that he's the one in control and chooses not to use it. That was always the case. The Yoda arc is just spelling to the audience what Lucas has established in the movies. Yoda didn't change, as Filoni attempts to imply. He acknowledges what he already knew (but the audience probably didn't).

The Jedi don't use the dark side. That's part of what makes them Jedi. Participating in a war is not using the dark side. The Jedi are in a war because they have the duty to protect the Republic.

 

Here is what was said in "The Shroud Of Darkness".

EZRA: "Yoda, you're powerful. You must know a way to destroy Vader and his Inquisitors."

YODA: "Padawan, thousands of Jedi once there were. Then came war. In our arrogance, join the conflict swiftly we did. Fear, anger, hate. Consumed by the dark side the Jedi were."

EZRA: "Was it wrong for the Jedi to fight? Is it wrong for me to protect my friends?"

YODA: "Wrong? Hmm. A long time, fought I did. Consumed by fear I was, though see it I did not."

EZRA: "You were afraid?"

YODA: "Yes, afraid. Hmm, surprised are you? A challenge lifelong it is, not to bend fear into anger. There's still a way."

EZRA: "Yeah, but Master Yoda, how are we supposed to win if we don't fight back?"

YODA: "Win? Win, hmm. How Jedi choose to win, the question is."

EZRA: "We already chose. We're going to fight."

What Yoda was saying is that the Jedi acted out of fear when they went to Geonosis and that fear is what fueled them during the war. Some of the Jedi became consumed by anger and hate, as we saw with Mace and Barriss. But overall, the Jedi lost their way because they went in to fight to win. Luke wins by stopping the fight against Vader. Ezra thinks that he has to fight to win, but the way to win is what is important.

And that's why they're dead. They chose to fight a corrupt and dying government, instead of letting it go and seeking a different path. Sometimes the only way to win a fight is to not fight at all.

 

Interesting that Yoda admits it. I wonder what Lucas would think.

Like others have said, I don't think it is anything intentional on the Jedi's part, just that they were clouded during the PT as we already suspected.

 

Out of fear? How so?

When was Mace consumed by anger and hate?

No, they fought to protect the Republic they swore to serve.

Not comparable. Vader has a very particular history and connection to Luke. Had it been not Vader but Sidious, not fighting would result in death and the oppression would continue.

Fighting is (and always was) a means or a consequence, not an end. What would have happened had Padmé chose not to fight the Trade Federation? Or the Rebel Alliance chose not to fight the Empire?

No, they are dead because the Sith trapped them in a no-win situation.

That "corrupt and dying government" was still a democracy and represented the people of the galaxy. To let go of it, is to abandon the people and to lose any jurisdisction the Jedi had.

Sometimes, yes. But not in this case.

 

darth-sinister

Thanks for providing the actual transcript, but now I'm still like

IMHO, there is more gobbledygook in Yoda's words than usual, but for him to seriously say that (a) the Jedi "swiftly" joined the conflict and (b) were consumed by the dark side is either a deliberate lie (reverse psychology) or plain nonsense.

The Jedi were uncertain, yes, and only Yoda undertook the dangerous process to "probe the dark side" to get a clearer vision of the future. Except for Anakin I never saw any of the other Jedi in the PT to be either afraid, angered or hateful.

I think it's about time we re-evaluate our appreciation for Dave Filoni - or is it actually "Darth Feloni"? According to my account that's at least the third major retcon from Feloni and team that's counter-productive to continuity and the "big picture".

 

I disagree.

ANAKIN: He won't give up his powers. I've just learned a terrible truth. I think Chancellor Palpatine is a Sith Lord.
MACE: A Sith Lord?!?
ANAKIN: Yes, the one we've been looking for.
MACE: How do you know this?
ANAKIN: He knows the ways of the force. He's been trained to use the dark side.
MACE: Are you sure?
ANAKIN: Absolutely.
MACE: Then our greatest fears have been realised. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

Mace is fearing for the Republic and Jedi Order. It clouds his better judgement.

Mace seemed pretty hateful in the scripted and novelisation versions of the Palpatine fight, when he eventually tries to kill Palpatine. Logically he has no more information about the situation than he did before the two legitimate arrest attempts, he just gets pissed off and decides it is on him to determine the fate of the galaxy.

Scripted lines like "You old fool. The oppression of the Sith will never return!" and "You Sith disease! I am going to end this once and for all." paint a picture of an emotional reaction to the situation.

 

I don't see how Filoni has contradicted anything. The Jedi unwittingly made a grave mistake by fighting the war and paid a terrible price for that. To me, that's obvious.

 

Feeling fear doesn't cloud your judgement. Acting on it, or letting it control your actions, does. The Jedi didn't act on fear.

 

HevyDevy

According to your explanation, there wouldn't really be a reason to invoke Windu as we have already Anakin. Yoda's statement is a broad and general one or does it really just focus on Anakin and perhaps Windu?

While English is not my native tongue, I have come to understand that "our greatest fears" is a figure of speech that shouldn't be taken literally. Where I live we say "our greatest concerns".

Now that would be the day, just because I'm concerned I've taken a larger step towards the dark side. No Mr. Filoni, this bird doesn't fly.

 

Is that why Mace was attempting to defy the principles of democracy? Because he did not act out of fear that Palpatine would get away with everything?

 

No, he acted out of knowing that Palpatine had manipulated everything and would get away. If you spot cancer you try to remove it surgically, essentially that's what he tried to do.

The way the Jedi acted was methodically, not clouded by emotions.

 

Then we've seen different movies. In the ROTS I've seen, Mace is clearly distraught and willing to break the Jedi code to save the Republic. In other words, he decides that the end will justify the means.

 

How is he breaking the code by killing Sidious? He has resisted arrest, is dangerous and not unarmed. He's left with no choice.